Griz guide/backup cartridge

[dirtytough]

Reading a few of the posts in the 223 thread where PN was begging for someone to send him on a griz hunt, it got me wondering.

Lots of people said they would use a .223 for the hunt.

How many people would bring a .223 as the backup/guide gun on a griz hunt? Let’s say a 10 year old shoots a griz/brown bear from 700 yards because it’s in camp. It is clearly hit but makes its way into the brush. Is a .223 your cartridge of choice if you are the lead tracking it down?

If not what is your cartridge of choice?

 

[35WhelenAI]

Air rifle, lol.

If we know it's brush and not going past that range, Marlin 45/70. If not that dedicated scenario, my thumper is a 35 Whelan AI and I would stoke it with a well constructed bullet and settle his issue in the brush or otherwise.

Is there a hunter reading this who has settled an argument at close range with a head-on grizzly using the smaller gun, it would go a long ways toward me keeping an open mind about it as the top choice when things go south. And that has been very much said in the referenced thread.

I wouldn't go on a hunt with anything that would need a larger caliber to back it up. Use the gun that takes care of your own business, not just the first shot, but any follow up the hunter may need to use. If the guide has to finish up, I didn't do my job as the primary hunter.

 

[MattB]

.45-70 or 12 gauge with slugs.

My grizzly guide carried a .300 Win Mag.

 

[Billy Goat]

A reliable pump 12ga with plated buckshot.

Lots of potential to make a CNS hit per trigger pull.


Not a cartridge tho.

 

[william schmaltz]

Shit no.

There's one gun that was built specifically for that task and that's a 50 Alaskan. I'd take that tracking if I had one. But I like the 375 as a hunting rifle as well as a brush gun and I think anything above that for me would be exclusively a brush gun. And I don't have that kind of disposable money. I take my 375 Ruger with 300 gr DGX when I'm baiting. We can all dream as much as we want, but you're likely only getting a single shot with a long gun. Shot one black bear that wouldn't leave me alone with that combo from about 10 yards and it didn't move. I've shot a couple griz with the 375 (250 gr GMX) and neither went more than 100 yards.

edit to add: A friend's 7 year old kid shot a brown bear a couple years ago with his 6.5. It was on open tundra from about 150 yds and the Dad was there with a 300 RUM if a bad shot was made or if it came closer after the shot. So does a smaller caliber do the job? I guess. But what matters most in that story is the insurance the Dad was carrying. If it wasn't for that, the shot would've never happened.

 

[ldmay375]

Reading a few of the posts in the 223 thread where PN was begging for someone to send him on a griz hunt, it got me wondering.

Lots of people said they would use a .223 for the hunt.

How many people would bring a .223 as the backup/guide gun on a griz hunt? Let’s say a 10 year old shoots a griz/brown bear from 700 yards because it’s in camp. It is clearly hit but makes its way into the brush. Is a .223 your cartridge of choice if you are the lead tracking it down?

If not what is your cartridge of choice?

Probably a 20" Ruger Alaskan in 375 Ruger or 416 Ruger. Most likely I would have one or the other with me anyways.
Given the choice under those conditions, I would prefer my 416 Ruger.

 

[BCsteve]

700 yards is a pretty big camp and a long shot for a 10 year old!

 

[FLATHEAD]

My .375 Ruger Alaskan, 300gr. Partitions.

 

[cuttingedge]

I would feel pretty good carrying my 450 Bushmaster AR. Maybe a Remington 760 or 7600 30-06 Carbine. A good old fashioned Remington 870 12 gauge with an extended mag tube and slugs.

 

[dirtytough]

700 yards is a pretty big camp and a long shot for a 10 year old!

Carry over from another thread. Just trying to make sure it’s not too serious.

 

[gbflyer]

Here’s some reading. Older information, fun to learn about the test methods of the day:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/pnw/pubs/pnw_gtr152.pdf

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PNWGATOR]

100% I’d choose an M4 with the 77TMK.

The wound channel is lethal and the hit rate is HIGH!

Period.

 

[Fatcamp]

Here’s some reading. Older information, fun to learn about the test methods of the day:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/pnw/pubs/pnw_gtr152.pdf

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"From our tests it would appear the slug
is much superior to buckshot for pro-
tection from bears. Whether buckshot
would be lethal to a bear at ranges
beyond 5 yd is doubtful. A mixed mag-
azine load of slugs and buckshot can
be used, but there appears to be little
advantage to this. To be effective, the
12-gauge slugs must be thought of as
similar to the bullets in a rifle. Hitting
vital areas is the important thing.
Hitting a brown bear with a load of
buckshot at ranges beyond 5 yd may
mean a nonlethal wound and a very
angry, active bear."

LOL. Shotgun for me. I know it well and thats what really counts.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Loggerdan, I see the crying your eyes out emoji, what's your experience?

 

[3325]

If we know it's brush and not going past that range, Marlin 45/70.

Since you said .45-70, I'll go with .444 Marlin just to be a contrarian.

Good pick, though.

 

[LoggerDan]

I live, work and hunt in brown bear country. I also love my 35 whelen. I really do. But it is absolutely not a fight ending cartridge. Un unaware bears at a reasonable, it’ll flatten em. But if you are closer, shoot, and like a good rifleman, automatically start working the bolt, lots of times they will see you. Mostly they already have you pinpointed. It can then be a fight.

Those guys are tough, with big bodies, big hearts and slow heart rates. Tons of oxygen still in the brain to wreck your day and give you The New Look. Even good hits don’t always mean a dead on the spot bear. This matters when you hunt by yourself, like I do. After experiencing this, I went out and bought a pair of 375 rugers. I shoot 300 grainers. I hunt a lot of thick black spruce swamps, or very thick old growth in the southeast, or work on afognak. Again, by myself. Power is the name of the game. Knock the piss out of them. Hurt them.

it can be a hard thing to hit a basketball bouncing up and down a couple of feet, quickly making its way to you faster than you can say that last sentence. Especially when that “basketball wants to rip you apart and start tearing bits out of your ass and hips and legs. 375s aren’t magic , but they sure are hard to beat. Lots of natives use 223’s, but they cripple a hell of a lot of game. You do you. As for myself, I’m stacking the deck in my favor. In fact, I’m looking for a 416.

 

[LoggerDan]

I also kind of misread and interpreted your last paragraph wrong.. if I were on a guided big bruin hunt, I’d want my piece as big as the guides, or damned close

 

[MattB]

"From our tests it would appear the slug
is much superior to buckshot for pro-
tection from bears. Whether buckshot
would be lethal to a bear at ranges
beyond 5 yd is doubtful. A mixed mag-
azine load of slugs and buckshot can
be used, but there appears to be little
advantage to this. To be effective, the
12-gauge slugs must be thought of as
similar to the bullets in a rifle. Hitting
vital areas is the important thing.
Hitting a brown bear with a load of
buckshot at ranges beyond 5 yd may
mean a nonlethal wound and a very
angry, active bear."

LOL. Shotgun for me. I know it well and thats what really counts.

Very little advantage? It makes you a bad @$$ on the internet.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I live, work and hunt in brown bear country. I also love my 35 whelen. I really do. But it is absolutely not a fight ending cartridge. Un unaware bears at a reasonable, it’ll flatten em. But if you are closer, shoot, and like a good rifleman, automatically start working the bolt, lots of times they will see you. Mostly they already have you pinpointed. It can then be a fight.

Those guys are tough, with big bodies, big hearts and slow heart rates. Tons of oxygen still in the brain to wreck your day and give you The New Look. Even good hits don’t always mean a dead on the spot bear. This matters when you hunt by yourself, like I do. After experiencing this, I went out and bought a pair of 375 rugers. I shoot 300 grainers. I hunt a lot of thick black spruce swamps, or very thick old growth in the southeast, or work on afognak. Again, by myself. Power is the name of the game. Knock the piss out of them. Hurt them.

it can be a hard thing to hit a basketball bouncing up and down a couple of feet, quickly making its way to you faster than you can say that last sentence. Especially when that “basketball wants to rip you apart and start tearing bits out of your ass and hips and legs. 375s aren’t magic , but they sure are hard to beat. Lots of natives use 223’s, but they cripple a hell of a lot of game. You do you. As for myself, I’m stacking the deck in my favor. In fact, I’m looking for a 416.

Thanks, now I gotcha.

Your information on the physiology of a bear is helpful. I absolutely understand about the slow heartrates and tons of oxygen in the brain. Thanks for that as well.

 

[hseII]

Air rifle, lol.

If we know it's brush and not going past that range, Marlin 45/70. If not that dedicated scenario, my thumper is a 35 Whelan AI and I would stoke it with a well constructed bullet and settle his issue in the brush or otherwise.

Is there a hunter reading this who has settled an argument at close range with a head-on grizzly using the smaller gun, it would go a long ways toward me keeping an open mind about it as the top choice when things go south. And that has been very much said in the referenced thread.

I wouldn't go on a hunt with anything that would need a larger caliber to back it up. Use the gun that takes care of your own business, not just the first shot, but any follow up the hunter may need to use. If the guide has to finish up, I didn't do my job as the primary hunter.

I’ve always wanted a .375 Ruger so now that’s my answer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro