Good news for Ebiker users on public land.

[Fartrell Cluggins]

We could make a very long list of "tools" that have made the hunt easier over the years. It's interesting to see where people draw the line and what their rationale is for drawing the line.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

Ahh, so you are concerned that too many people will be enjoying the back country.

Have fun with that.

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I would say if you can ride there on a motorized conveyance, it's no longer backcountry.

 

[Wyobohunter]

People are funny. Some want things easy... and some want them hard. They all want the land to themselves.

Longbow guys get less shot opportunity than compound guys in the same season. Pistol guys get less shot opportunity than rifle guys in the same season.

I have a couple guys who hunt the area that I hike my longbow into and they ride up the hill on e bikes that they used to cut the trail open with. They run compounds, rangefinders, radios, gps...they look like digital soldiers.

Nice enough guys. I hate the way they hunt. I pattern bulls and try to kill that bull, they are more like pheasant drivers.

I hunt different than them...but unless they choose the same spot as me they're not much threat to wildlife in September.

It wouldn't be hard for a good lobbiest to make long range hunting a target because of our gadgets being unfair to the animals. The same tactics could be used to show how compound bows can kill from beyond pistol range for most.

Everything we do is a compromise of either skill or effort, unless you're in the Aron Snyder and South Cox crowd.

The only thing two humans from different tribes ever agree on is disagreement.

To continue the apples to oranges comparison…

I’d say there is a way bigger difference between using a motor or not vs if your bow does or doesn’t have training wheels. The difference in range between my longbow and my compound is 20 yards. Even a very conservative traditional bow hunter who limits shots to 10 yards vs a very good compound bow hunter who can/will shoot 60 yards is only a 50 yard difference.

A person on a motorized vehicle can cover 20 miles with less effort and time than it takes a person without a motor to cover 4 miles.

50 yard isn’t really all that much of an advantage on a stalk. Sixteen miles getting out to a remote area (very conservatively) is a way bigger advantage. It would completely change the nature of hunting public land in the west.

Luckily the title of this thread is misleading. Per the USFS there will be very minimal changes allowed. A few trails may open up to e-bikes. Most will not. If a person spends $8+K on an e-bike for the purpose of getting deeper into USFS non-motorized areas they’ve done the economy and the manufacturer a great service. And can now ride it on the same roads a motorcycle can ride on.

 

[def90]

Thank goodness they are coming around. It's absurd that they are not allowed. They have no more impact on trails or wildlife than a regular mountain bike so they should be allowed wherever mountain bikes are.

Not all motors are created equally so the above statements are just pearl clutching.

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An electric bike is definitely going to do more damage to trails than a mountain bike. The sustained speed and torque on the wheels when cornering and going uphill and downhill will cause more erosion. Anyone that has been traveling the USFS service roads over the years here in Colorado will tell you that sxs have caused significant damage to these roads when people argue all the time that they are no different than a car or jeep.

 

[hh76]

We could make a very long list of "tools" that have made the hunt easier over the years. It's interesting to see where people draw the line and what their rationale is for drawing the line.

This is the exact reason I think we need to start drawing lines when a very black and white line is available. Electric motor on a vehicle=motorized.

It's when we start to use the idea of "what's the big deal, it's not much different" to allow new technology in that those arguments begin.

 

[Pikespeak]

To continue the apples to oranges comparison…

I’d say there is a way bigger difference between using a motor or not vs if your bow does or doesn’t have training wheels. The difference in range between my longbow and my compound is 20 yards. Even a very conservative traditional bow hunter who limits shots to 10 yards vs a very good compound bow hunter who can/will shoot 60 yards is only a 50 yard difference.

A person on a motorized vehicle can cover 20 miles with less effort and time than it takes a person without a motor to cover 4 miles.

50 yard isn’t really all that much of an advantage on a stalk. Sixteen miles getting out to a remote area (very conservatively) is a way bigger advantage. It would completely change the nature of hunting public land in the west.

Luckily the title of this thread is misleading. Per the USFS there will be very minimal changes allowed. A few trails may open up to e-bikes. Most will not. If a person spends $8+K on an e-bike for the purpose of getting deeper into USFS non-motorized areas they’ve done the economy and the manufacturer a great service. And can now ride it on the same roads a motorcycle can ride on.

My understanding is that they are saying it will be an area by area decision. I would think this would be easier for the outdoor product companies to lobby each individually and gradually eat away at any resistance. Similar approach to gun control.

 

[CoStick]

We could make a very long list of "tools" that have made the hunt easier over the years. It's interesting to see where people draw the line and what their rationale is for drawing the line.

It isn’t about the hunt for me, it is increasing the amount of people year round in areas set up to be difficult to experience, to keep them from being ruined.

 

[CoStick]

My understanding is that they are saying it will be an area by area decision. I would think this would be easier for the outdoor product companies to lobby each individually and gradually eat away at any resistance. Similar approach to gun control.

It also will allow all motors where trails are opened, not just ebikes.

 

[Wrench]

To continue the apples to oranges comparison…

I’d say there is a way bigger difference between using a motor or not vs if your bow does or doesn’t have training wheels. The difference in range between my longbow and my compound is 20 yards. Even a very conservative traditional bow hunter who limits shots to 10 yards vs a very good compound bow hunter who can/will shoot 60 yards is only a 50 yard difference.

A person on a motorized vehicle can cover 20 miles with less effort and time than it takes a person without a motor to cover 4 miles.

50 yard isn’t really all that much of an advantage on a stalk. Sixteen miles getting out to a remote area (very conservatively) is a way bigger advantage. It would completely change the nature of hunting public land in the west.

Luckily the title of this thread is misleading. Per the USFS there will be very minimal changes allowed. A few trails may open up to e-bikes. Most will not. If a person spends $8+K on an e-bike for the purpose of getting deeper into USFS non-motorized areas they’ve done the economy and the manufacturer a great service. And can now ride it on the same roads a motorcycle can ride on.

I have no dog in the fight because I truly don't care which way it goes since they are little use in my blow down infested areas....and I don't own one....

But, if you want to claim 50-60 yards as effective range for a compound, I cannot agree. I shoot about a dozen arrows a year from mine and can sink a broadhead into a Rinehart 18÷1from 70 with confidence. The number of videos of guys shooting over 100 and even 200 now is a pretty strong argument.

Whereas every shot with a longbow is literally flying with hope.

 

[Rich M]

An electric bike is definitely going to do more damage to trails than a mountain bike. The sustained speed and torque on the wheels when cornering and going uphill and downhill will cause more erosion. Anyone that has been traveling the USFS service roads over the years here in Colorado will tell you that sxs have caused significant damage to these roads when people argue all the time that they are no different than a car or jeep.

A horse will tear a trail up way more than an ebike or mountain bike.

No-one seems to care about horses passing them, just ebikes. Kinda puts it into perspective. It's not about the bikes, it's about people that they feel shouldn't be there being there.

We actually have some of this talk going on down here in FL too. Folks jealous that ebikes are easy to ride in and will pass the guy who is on foot. So the guy on foot wants more regulations.

What's not to like about them - cheaper than a horse - easy to use - allows greater access and range - hardly leaves a trace - silent as a mouse - etc. But evil cause more people get access and you have to be a tough mountain man to walk up some closed road. Only tough mountain men should be allowed on the mountain.

 

[Wib]

Every state is different. In Montana where I hunt many of the gated roads are just that, roads. Wide enough for two trucks to meet and pass with base enough to support trucks just like any road. They used to be open to vehicle traffic and could still support it. The locals all have horses or access to them, that's who got the roads closed. To get to the mountain now where you can begin to climb you walk 4 or more miles often so you can begin your hunt. Now they're talking about banning "mechanized" meaning bicycles.

 

[mtnbiker208]

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

It isn’t about the hunt for me, it is increasing the amount of people year round in areas set up to be difficult to experience, to keep them from being ruined.

It's for selfish reasons. Gotcha.

 

[CoStick]

It's for selfish reasons. Gotcha.

Putting your own needs ahead of the conservation of the land is selfish. Someday I will be too old or injured to access it and I am fine with that. That is how life goes. There are other areas made for that.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

This is the exact reason I think we need to start drawing lines when a very black and white line is available. Electric motor on a vehicle=motorized.

It's when we start to use the idea of "what's the big deal, it's not much different" to allow new technology in that those arguments begin.

Where would you draw the line. Black powder only? Iron sights only? No scopes over 4X? No spotting scopes? No GPS? No rangefinders? No horses? No game carts?

 

[def90]

A horse will tear a trail up way more than an ebike or mountain bike.

No-one seems to care about horses passing them, just ebikes. Kinda puts it into perspective. It's not about the bikes, it's about people that they feel shouldn't be there being there.

We actually have some of this talk going on down here in FL too. Folks jealous that ebikes are easy to ride in and will pass the guy who is on foot. So the guy on foot wants more regulations.

What's not to like about them - cheaper than a horse - easy to use - allows greater access and range - hardly leaves a trace - silent as a mouse - etc. But evil cause more people get access and you have to be a tough mountain man to walk up some closed road. Only tough mountain men should be allowed on the mountain.

How many horses do you see out on the trails vs potential e bikes? I run in to horses maybe once a year out here on the trails near where I hunt and recreate but I can guarantee you that ebikes would be a daily occurance.

I get it, I dirt bike, I have no desire to open up current non motorized trails to anything with a motor on it. I've seen people on regular mtn bikes in wilderness areas here and it pisses me off.

 

[def90]

Where would you draw the line. Black powder only? Iron sights only? No scopes over 4X? No spotting scopes? No GPS? No rangefinders? No horses? No game carts?

That's a very different argument and issue. Electric bikes aren't about hunting.

 

[WRM]

if it is primarily a pedal bike with a small motor meant for assist on hills, I can see the the gray area

That would be "pedal assist" and it's really already gone the way of the dodo with modern ebikes. That was what was the "tech" when they allowed them on our local mil base but they are all full electric bikes now. You can rig it where it's only "pedal assist", but it means nothing now with the powerful motors. You can barely move the pedals and the motor will kick in.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Where would you draw the line. Black powder only? Iron sights only? No scopes over 4X? No spotting scopes? No GPS? No rangefinders? No horses? No game carts?

Apples to oranges. I made a similar comparison earlier and it’s really not a good one. The difference is that allowing motorized vehicles into non-motorized areas will change the nature of those areas and the hunt (or any other recreation).

There is no good reason to change it. Any desire to do so is just laziness. Meat can be bought at the grocery store.

It isn’t changing except in some very limited areas. Call your local USFS and ask.

 

[def90]

BTW, there are "e-bikes" that can keep up with dirt bikes on a motocross track. Opening up e-bikes on trails that are currently non-motorized opens a huge can of worms. I can guarantee you there are guys just waiting for that chance. Your outdoors experience will be affected in a negative way when it happens.