Gels when running

[Marbles]

I am via my garmin watch but no way it is accurate. It is saying average on run is 176.

Thanks for all the input guys.

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My Fenix 7 is pretty accurate. I use a Polar chest strap while running though. You are likely close to an average of 176, which is fast for most training for almost everyone. My lactate threshold is above 180 and max HR is north of 200, but most of my training is done between 139 and 155.

As a side note, if your average is 176 and you are pushing hard, your lactate threshold is probably about 176.

I'm all for trying slower. I enjoy slower much more. My brain is the problem. It is the reason I quit running years ago. I always ran 5k training runs back then. But my brain thought I should be faster every day and that every day should be a new PR. And I just couldn't keep pushing myself that hard every day because it was not fun any more. I still want to push it every day. Do a little better every day. And I likely expect too much too soon. I'm only on about my 20th run since starting back. And I was running 0 zero miles until starting back. Working out, but not running. So i recognize that it is foolish to expect what I expect out of myself. My last 6 miles was a 8:50 average pace. I want it to be 8:00 and I want it yesterday. But I am going to take all the advice here, chill out, and slow down.

At first running slower is hard, I ignore speed and switched my measurements over to metric so I did not have an easy reference. Plus, I mentally make the challenge be holding the desired HR range. After breaking myself from over training for years, I also shifted the primary goal to being injury free. Running in lower HR zones really helps with this.

Edit: the Fenix 7 will give me low readings and is mot as accurate as I thought, but I have not seen a false high.

 

[Anglo-American]

I stopped using gels and used fruit.
Dates, dried figs, raisins.

If running 20 miles or less I don't eat anything.
If going over 20 miles I start eating around mile 16-18.

That depends on terrain though as the distance is not relevant really, but the time is.
To put it into time I don't consume anything other than water for the first two hours.
If I'm out less than three hours I won't eat anything, but my times might drop around two and a half hours by a minute a mile. Depends on different variables.

If you're out for five mile runs you shouldn't even need water. Not really.

 

[WoodBow]

My Fenix 7 is pretty accurate. I use a Polar chest strap while running though. You are likely close to an average of 176, which is fast for most training for almost everyone. My lactate threshold is above 180 and max HR is north of 200, but most of my training is done between 139 and 155.

As a side note, if your average is 176 and you are pushing hard, your lactate threshold is probably about 176.

At first running slower is hard, I ignore speed and switched my measurements over to metric so I did not have an easy reference. Plus, I mentally make the challenge be holding the desired HR range. After breaking myself from over training for years, I also shifted the primary goal to being injury free. Running in lower HR zones really helps with this.

Fair enough. This run did not feel any where close to pushing it. I don't think I'm mentally capable of pushing it for that long. At least not yet. Felt very comfortable and breathing was mild. I talked to my buddy the whole time until he split off at mile 5. I come from a crossfit background so I am more used to what high heart rate feels like doing that. It will get up to 188 in workouts and I am really sucking wind and hating life. I will say that my last 5 or so runs, before this, were pretty chill. I was not even tracking time. Just running to log miles and then checking watch when done. So maybe that helped. I don't know.

Hope this thread helps motivate more people. I know it has helped to keep me motivated. September is almost here.



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[WoodBow]

Change of pace this morning. Spent some time with the c2 rower. Aka the sit and suffer.

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[timekiller13]

The wall is legit.

Did 16 miles on Saturday. 0-13 felt great. Last 3 miles was nothing more than a shuffle!! Finished off at a 10:23/mile pace. At mile 13 I was just under 10 min/mile.

67 days from my first marathon. Still feeling good but that 16 miler was a gut check. Ran a 10k this morning at a solid 9:00/mile pace so a little confidence boost.

This is my “rest” week. No big run. Just 4 days of 4-8 mile runs.

Next week the big run is an 18 miler.

 

[mtnbiker208]

some of you are going to laugh, but i used gharditios italian mix for fuel on saturdays 28 mile, 4000 vert mtn bike ride. It was an overnighter and loop home sunday morning with an additional 22 miles. I was craving the salty carbs. gu's and bars get a little to sweet after awhile. It ended up being a 6 hour ride(elapsed time).

 

[WoodBow]

some of you are going to laugh, but i used gharditios italian mix for fuel on saturdays 28 mile, 4000 vert mtn bike ride. It was an overnighter and loop home sunday morning with an additional 22 miles. I was craving the salty carbs. gu's and bars get a little to sweet after awhile. It ended up being a 6 hour ride(elapsed time).

You mean gardettos? I believe it because they are very calorie dense. The gas station bags are 700 calories I think.

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[Shootemjacob]

When training for my marathons, any run over 6 miles in the Florida heat I wore my osprey hydration pack with a bladder full of water and 2 Nuun hydration tablets. I would also carry Gu and eat those every 35 minutes on the long slow distant runs over 6 miles. The Gu’s get old pretty quick so I also started carrying small pbj sandwiches sometimes and orange slices. The orange slices were my favorite.

Once you get into distance running for a little bit and have to carry hydration and nutrients, you begin to have a better understanding of how much fluid and nutrients your body depletes and also how much your body needs on those runs. You can literally feel the energy levels coming back very quickly after hydrating/refueling.

 

[WoodBow]

When training for my marathons, any run over 6 miles in the Florida heat I wore my osprey hydration pack with a bladder full of water and 2 Nuun hydration tablets. I would also carry Gu and eat those every 35 minutes on the long slow distant runs over 6 miles. The Gu’s get old pretty quick so I also started carrying small pbj sandwiches sometimes and orange slices. The orange slices were my favorite.

Once you get into distance running for a little bit and have to carry hydration and nutrients, you begin to have a better understanding of how much fluid and nutrients your body depletes and also how much your body needs on those runs. You can literally feel the energy levels coming back very quickly after hydrating/refueling.

Man PB&J sounds like a solid option. Those smuckers uncrustables would be nice and tidy. I think they even sell a press so you can make those at home.

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[chizelhead]

I'm not a runner but former long distance road biker. I was too uncoordinated with gels and gravitated towards Jelly Belly Sport beans and blocks. At 100 and 150 miles, I would eat a pbj sandwich and maybe a banana. To manage stomach distress, I found I was taking in too many carbs over too short of a period of time. When I spread out consumption with lower amounts, my distress went away. Hydration was key as well. I would frequently sip and could go much longer if I started sipping within 15 minutes of the start. I would get distress if I waited and tried to drink a bunch of water at once. Experiment what works for you. There are so many options.

 

[Shootemjacob]

Man PB&J sounds like a solid option. Those smuckers uncrustables would be nice and tidy. I think they even sell a press so you can make those at home.

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Yeah most of the guys I know take the uncrustables. I just made them myself and put a half sandwich in each shoulder strap pocket of my osprey pack.
It’s pretty fun to experiment with different types of hydration and fuel. There is no right or wrong answer. Some get super technical, some don’t. Some don’t need anything, some need a lot of fuel to keep going. Just listen to your body.
I will end with this… just before I would hit those “walls” I noticed my stomach would start to feel hollow. It was not the same as an empty stomach. Feeling hollow is the best way I can describe it. But anytime I felt that, I would drink and eat something. Whether it was every 5 minutes or every hour. That saved me on countless long runs when I really had to keep it going.

Have fun!

 

[mtnbiker208]

I was taught an interesting way of fueling the body in the early 90's. think about fueling a wood stove.
tinder burns hot and fast
kindling burns hot and fast but longer than tinder, but lighting kindling with out tinder does not work.
logs burn a long time, but smoulder if the fire is out. so you might need to put some kindling in before the log. if the fire is burning, you can keep putting logs on.

like i said, this was the early 90's.
tinder m&m's
kindling m&ms with peanuts, jelly donuts
logs jerky

now take it to todays food.
tinder gu's
kindling nuts
logs jerky ect

you get the point. When bars first came out, i was yippee i can stop bringing the pb and j sandwiches that get smashed. I don't need the hardboiled eggs, or the red potatoes cut in half with ham on them, wrapped in tin foil. Now 30 years later i am back to a mixture of real food and sports food. Like i said earlier, i don't run, but i do all day excursions in the mountains year round.

 

[NorthIDHunter]

Does anyone else ever get sucked into one of these threads that has absolutely nothing to do with your current life? I just read every single post for some reason, and I don't even run, at all, ever. I do like mountain biking, but nothing to the level of @mtnbiker208 (which now I see we likely live in the same town). I was fascinated though by the recommendations and input, most of it being very well thought out and from actual personal experience, and science. At one point I caught myself thinking, hell maybe I should give this a try and then I remembered I just limped to the bathroom and back, so probably not my avenue. Anyways good work and carry on!

 

[WoodBow]

Well the air at over 12k does not really care how much running you did to prepare. But i was at least fit enough to find and make plays on multiple bucks. Each stalk was about a 4 hour ordeal, from taking off to getting back. I always struggle with appetite at elevation. Im just not hungry. Probably only ate 1500-2000 calories a day. Maybe less. The pic i am including was almost a done deal. Probably a 160-170 buck there but you can only see the color of his body. I had to start giving up my wind advantage to get around that corner on him. He winded me at full draw at 10 yards, and ran out of the basin.

Ive been home for about 10 days. Did an easy 5 mile run after i was home for a couple of days. Then did this run this morning. I did buy a garmin chest strap and i guess my garmin watch was more accurate than i thought. My HR is way higher than I would have guessed. Not sure what to make of that but i guess i will start playing with some zone runs now that i am confident the data im getting is accurate.

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[V2Pnutrition]

Getting more and more into distance running. Generally doing 6 miles. Would like to continue to increase distance. I tend to bonk at about the start of mile 5. Could certainly be that that is simply where my current endurance starts to run out, but I'm curious if that gels, or something similar, would help me with this slow down.

What kind of interval is common to consume something?

What works well for yall?

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We base things off of "the rule of 60".

The rule of 60, simply put, says that anything over 60-mintues requires about 60g of carbohydrate every 60-minutes until you stop.

Gels CAN fit this bill, but aren't generally my fuel de jour because of how incredibly concentrated the carbs are. The body can (in general) only process about 60g in an hour. If you dump all of that in at once, you risk some of it being used for fuel, but some of it sitting in the gut, fermenting on gut bacteria, and causing gas and bloat.

Some guys have given you great recommendations here. This is why I generally like powdered drinks like Gatorade or gummy bears- YOU control the dose.

You can listen and get complete details on the rule of 60 on this podcast episode we did earlier this year-

Episode 5- Fueling for Endurance (w/ Mark Huelsing + Kyle Kamp)

This episode recaps our Alaska Death Hike earlier in the year as well. Several guys make mention of this and how well the powdered drinks worked for them.

Happy to answer any questions you might have!

 

[WoodBow]

We base things off of "the rule of 60".

The rule of 60, simply put, says that anything over 60-mintues requires about 60g of carbohydrate every 60-minutes until you stop.

Gels CAN fit this bill, but aren't generally my fuel de jour because of how incredibly concentrated the carbs are. The body can (in general) only process about 60g in an hour. If you dump all of that in at once, you risk some of it being used for fuel, but some of it sitting in the gut, fermenting on gut bacteria, and causing gas and bloat.

Some guys have given you great recommendations here. This is why I generally like powdered drinks like Gatorade or gummy bears- YOU control the dose.

You can listen and get complete details on the rule of 60 on this podcast episode we did earlier this year-

Episode 5- Fueling for Endurance (w/ Mark Huelsing + Kyle Kamp)

This episode recaps our Alaska Death Hike earlier in the year as well. Several guys make mention of this and how well the powdered drinks worked for them.

Happy to answer any questions you might have!

I think i may have picked up the gummy bear trick from you several years ago on the exo podcast! I always enjoy it when you are on. Thanks for your valuable input there and here.

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[gsckorohod]

Getting more and more into distance running. Generally doing 6 miles. Would like to continue to increase distance. I tend to bonk at about the start of mile 5. Could certainly be that that is simply where my current endurance starts to run out, but I'm curious if that gels, or something similar, would help me with this slow down.

What kind of interval is common to consume something?

What works well for yall?

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I raced Ironmans and halves for 7 years. Each has there own, but for me and my high metabolism gels, shotblocks or similar where my go to every 30 mins

 

[V2Pnutrition]

I think i may have picked up the gummy bear trick from you several years ago on the exo podcast! I always enjoy it when you are on. Thanks for your valuable input there and here.

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Thanks for the very kind words. That’s much appreciated!

 

[Marbles]

Fair enough. This run did not feel any where close to pushing it. I don't think I'm mentally capable of pushing it for that long. At least not yet. Felt very comfortable and breathing was mild. I talked to my buddy the whole time until he split off at mile 5. I come from a crossfit background so I am more used to what high heart rate feels like doing that. It will get up to 188 in workouts and I am really sucking wind and hating life. I will say that my last 5 or so runs, before this, were pretty chill. I was not even tracking time. Just running to log miles and then checking watch when done. So maybe that helped. I don't know.

Hope this thread helps motivate more people. I know it has helped to keep me motivated. September is almost here.



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After paying more attention, the wrist monitor gives me artificially low readings. Most of the time, optical pulses read low, the only time I have seen them read high is if the rate is doubled (I imagine the same applies to these watches). Anuway, as I no longer feel what I wrote earlier is correct, I wanted to come back and correct it.

The reason for doubling the rate has to do with the diacritic notch, created when the aortic valve closes.

 

[WoodBow]

After paying more attention, the wrist monitor gives me artificially low readings. Most of the time, optical pulses read low, the only time I have seen them read high is if the rate is doubled (I imagine the same applies to these watches). Anuway, as I no longer feel what I wrote earlier is correct, I wanted to come back and correct it.

The reason for doubling the rate has to do with the diacritic notch, created when the aortic valve closes.

I have since bought a garmin chest strap and it confirmed that my watch is actually pretty accurate, shockingly. Not sure why my average HR when running is so high. My resting HR is in the 50s.

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