Gear is great, BUT you need to get in the field!

[fillthefreezer]

Well, as a very experienced backpacker, but virgin backpack hunter, I feel this may have been somewhat pointed at guys like me.

read the thread i linked man, people posting how great X item is when its still on order or hasnt been on the market through a full hunting season...

 

[ams]

I'm guilty! Its pretty fun and embarrassing to read back through your own posts. I think a lot of it is good intentioned just not tempered with experience. I've learned a lot just in the time rokslide has been around.

 

[Aron Snyder]

Not directed towards you at all!

Well, as a very experienced backpacker, but virgin backpack hunter, I feel this may have been somewhat pointed at guys like me. My first backpack hunt will be Wyoming mulies next year, and I'll be using virtually the exact same gear I use for backpacking, except I'll have a pack that can haul meat and a gun/bow depending on what my hunting buddy and I decide to use.

When I give gear advice, its on gear that I have used extensively over a minimum of 5 day long backpacking trips in the Rockies of CO, WY or MT. Did I have a weapon in hand, no, but I can't really see how that makes the advice less informed. I have over 50 days of backpacking experience in the rockies moving camp each day in that environment, with more than 3/4 of those days above or at treeline. Granted a lot of the guys on this forum do that in one season, and if I can ever get a job close to the mountains, I plan on doing the same. Living over 24 hours away limits my time in the mountains.

With that said, if I've screwed up, I apologize. Giving bad or uninformed advice has never been my intention and I don't feel I have. I'll continue to give advice regarding gear I've used for backpacking and techniques that have worked for me, hopefully that's not overstepping my bounds.

Just one more thing to add, I hunt, and hunt a lot, but living in the SE, that's pretty much limited to small game and whitetails.

 

[Matt W.]

Its a good reminder that we all should step back and think about the gear we are commenting on. I recently did a fairly thorough review of rain gear. However, this review was limited because it was a lot of rain gear over a short period of time. IMO a real review involves many nights and days in rough terrain to be a full on high value review, yet in that same manner you loose a bit if you are only providing feedback on the one item you used that entire trip without comparing it to the numerous other options. What I enjoyed about my project was that I was able to take each jacket and compare it in similar circumstances to create a foundation Roksliders can then line up against real field use and abuse. Lets say for example that the MadeUpComany MadeUpJacket is a high ranked jacket. It felt great, passed all the tests, and felt super solid. A guy could read my write up and go buy it, but the wise guy can use Rokslide to pin that foundation writeup against all the folks running them over much longer periods of time.

Nothing trumps hard core field use, but every once in a while it is a good idea to gather multiple items of a piece of gear your swear by and look at the key differences. If you hold the KUIU Chugach NX, the First Lite Stormtight, the Kryptek Poseidon, and the Sitka Dewpoint side by side and really look at the detailed features of each jacket you will see key differences. Now you might find 4 guys who have 30 days in the field with each individual jacket and they all rave about how well each performed. You then go buy item X and off ya go, but you could miss out on features that might work better for you because you did not have all the jackets in hand.

I guess what I am saying is that hardcore field use is a great bench mark for gear reviews, but what drives out a rounded solid review is the ability cross reference field use with comparisons. However, the reviewer / comparer should have some broader experience in order to both articulate and validate their comments and thoughts. IMO, Rokslide is a great venue for doing that.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Good thread here if only to give everyone a reality check and have them think through before they post. Because this community we have here is very well mannered and polite, I think it gives a sense of freedom for anybody to post about anything without fear of looking like an idiot or being called out. It's a double edged sword in my opinion.

Mike

 

[Matt W.]

Good thread here if only to give everyone a reality check and have them think through before they post. Because this community we have here is very well mannered and polite, I think it gives a sense of freedom for anybody to post about anything without fear of looking like an idiot or being called out. It's a double edged sword in my opinion.

Mike

You bring up some good points Mike. I think we should all be prepared to answer questions and admit our limitations on a gear review. For example: I swear by my Mt Hardwear Ultralamina 15* sleeping bag, but heck it is all I have used for the last 4 years. Its a great endorsement of that particular bag, but I don't know what I may be missing out there. Brand X may blow it away, even though my bag works fine for me...

 

[jarheadhunter]

My only problem with this is that this website like most has it's gear clicks. .

Seems like if a piece of gear isn't from a forum sponsor it doesn't receive as much praise as others. Or if someone brings it up it gets pushed to the back burner.

I see it a lot with Swarovski. Someone says something about them and people talk them down to Vortex which probably isn't bad, but it's not Swarovski either. Yet if someone is talking about a pack and doesn't want to spend $800 on a Kifaru they're crazy for not spending the extra cash on the Kifaru.

 

[fillthefreezer]

Yet if someone is talking about a pack and doesn't want to spend $800 on a Kifaru they're crazy for not spending the extra cash on the Kifaru.

thats fine if they get a cheaper pack, id wager that most of the people on this site have bought cheaper packs, especially the people suggesting kifaru. i dont know anyone thats had a kifaru as a first pack...
its the buy once, cry once mentality. and you'll really be crying if the shoulder strap rips off that pack you got such an awesome deal on 5 miles from the truck with half an elk to pack

 

[robby denning]

jarheadhunter,
If we give our sponsors more room, it's likely because we use their gear the most compared to other non-sponsored products. It's easier to talk about what you're using than what you're not.

I can say as the business manager for Rokslide that I'm continually impressed with Aron's willingness to invite other gear manufacturers/users on Rokslide for the sole reason of giving Roksliders exposure to every company/opinion on gear. Many many times he's done this even when it creates direct competition against him and those who pay his bills.

 

[jarheadhunter]

thats fine if they get a cheaper pack, id wager that most of the people on this site have bought cheaper packs, especially the people suggesting kifaru. i dont know anyone thats had a kifaru as a first pack...
its the buy once, cry once mentality. and you'll really be crying if the shoulder strap rips off that pack you got such an awesome deal on 5 miles from the truck with half an elk to pack

Right wouldn't you say the same for Swarovski over Vortex?

 

[fillthefreezer]

i would to a point, except i dont feel lower quality optics have the potential for pain and suffering

edit to add: i think where vortex gets the hype is what id call "bang for your buck"
are they as good as swaro or zeiss or xx brand, maybe not, are the others worth $1k more, to many people maybe not...

 

[jarheadhunter]

I am not saying that Kifaru and Vortex aren't great. I am just pointing out what I have seen. I have some Vortex stuff and I love it and I have some Swarovski stuff which I love even more. Again this is just IMO. I don't really know why I went this direction because I know your talking about actually using it in the field and maybe all that someone has used in the field is a pair of Nikon Monarch Binos and they love them.


Sorry ranting over.

 

[jarheadhunter]

i would to a point, except i dont feel lower quality optics have the potential for pain and suffering

Don't know if I agree with that either. I know if I put a $30 Simmons scope on my rifle and it lost zero or fogged up when I had the chance at a OIL animal I would be suffering.

 

[fillthefreezer]

Don't know if I agree with that either. I know if I put a $30 Simmons scope on my rifle and it lost zero or fogged up when I had the chance at a OIL animal I would be suffering.

you got me, i have more confidence in vortex than that though ;-)

 

[dotman]

Right wouldn't you say the same for Swarovski over Vortex?

I think Swaro gets plenty of love, just read up on Matt's review of the new spotter and Aron's opinions on it, the bino reveiws, Robbies review on his ancient spotter . I think the only time you really see it is when compared on a quality/budget purpose. Vortex is great amazing quality for those of us on a budget, while no they are not Swaro good the differences are only noticable to those really picky optics freaks

Also I think more people can afford Vortex which means there will probably be more users on the forum that will then recommend them based on their experience and preceived value. That recommendation isn't saying they are better glass, just a better glass for them because the quality is there with the product and they are much more affordable.

Look at the great press Meotpa and Zeiss also receive, I think you'll see equal press based on how many users have said products. Heck I haven't really seen more reviews done on the sponsor optics then the non-sponsor optics, it has been prettty equal when you look thru the rokslide articles.

 

[Aron Snyder]

I can agree with you and the Kifaru part, but you're wrong about Swarovski! Especially since I've replied to over 100 PM's about Swaro products....maybe you're seeing what you want to see?

 

[Shrek]

thats fine if they get a cheaper pack, id wager that most of the people on this site have bought cheaper packs, especially the people suggesting kifaru. i dont know anyone thats had a kifaru as a first pack...
its the buy once, cry once mentality. and you'll really be crying if the shoulder strap rips off that pack you got such an awesome deal on 5 miles from the truck with half an elk to pack

I'm one of the few . The first pack I ever purchased for myself was a Kifaru Bikini and the second was a Kifaru Duplex . The only other pack I can remember owning was an old army surplus pack that someone gave me when I was in middle school. It may have been pre wwII issue. I remember it had a wire frame and was basically a canvas and wire box with straps and a belt.

 

[Shrek]

Btw , I had the pleasure of looking through a Swarovski ATX 85mm in some harsh snow background that would really show any weaknesses and all I can say is wow ! I don't know if I could put down that kind of cash for a spotter with my budget and needs but if I had the budget I sure would.

 

[littlebuf]

i wish i had the energy to read this whole thread but i lost interest after around 5 posts. i just wanted to wish you luck on this one Aron its a neat concept but this is the internet and literally everyone is an expert, on literally everything. once forums like this get over a 1000 members is around the time they start going down hill (and around the time i start losing interest too) . rokslide is better than just about all of the forums out there but it is far from immune from the trappings of the internet experts.

 

[HellsCanyon]

once forums like this get over a 1000 members is around the time they start going down hill (and around the time i start losing interest too) . rokslide is better than just about all of the forums out there but it is far from immune from the trappings of the internet experts.

boom.... I have noticed you posting a bit less Trevor and wondered if this was a potential reason. Unfortunately I feel the same way. This site still has my main focus but is already passed the point of forums that I enjoy the most. It's the way they work unfortunately... still a fan here though

Mike