First Focal Plane vs Second

[Nillion]

I personally think SFP reticles with drop and windage are almost entirely useless except for shooting at the range. Shooting at max magnification in a hunting scenario is asking for trouble as it's much more difficult to spot your impacts and get back on target for a follow up shot if need be.

A properly designed FFP reticle on minimum magnification is no different to me than a German #4. You use the thicker black bars to bracket the target and you're fine.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I personally think SFP reticles with drop and windage are almost entirely useless except for shooting at the range. Shooting at max magnification in a hunting scenario is asking for trouble as it's much more difficult to spot your impacts and get back on target for a follow up shot if need be.

A properly designed FFP reticle on minimum magnification is no different to me than a German #4. You use the thicker black bars to bracket the target and you're fine.

That’s more relevant with people shooting 32x rifle scopes imo.
I find that 10x SFP scope is very effective in real world hunting situations. My Nightforce NXS 2.5-10’s as reference.


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[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I personally think SFP reticles with drop and windage are almost entirely useless except for shooting at the range. Shooting at max magnification in a hunting scenario is asking for trouble as it's much more difficult to spot your impacts and get back on target for a follow up shot if need be.

A properly designed FFP reticle on minimum magnification is no different to me than a German #4. You use the thicker black bars to bracket the target and you're fine.

Dialing is an option that works equally well with both FFP and SFP. To my knowledge there is no law requiring a hunter to be limited to using a reticle.

There are a lot of ways to skin this particular cat. Using a reticle is one way but not necessarily the “correct” way. This is true even with the FFP scopes that the elite hunters use.

Run what works for you. Let others run what works for them.

 

[doc holiday13]

2nd Focal pro reticle is easier to see on lower power.

1st Focal pro the subtensions are correct at any power.

Thats pretty much it man.

You just have to decide of the reticle always being the same size or the hash marks always being the same is more important to ya.

This

I'm FFP all the way because SOMETIMES.....you need to do a holdover and being able to use your sub marks is clutch

 

[DCT1983]

This

I'm FFP all the way because SOMETIMES.....you need to do a holdover and being able to use your sub marks is clutch

I completely agree.

 

[Macht]

Once I started using FFP I never looked back. Even for a scope that tops out at 12x or so, the ability to use the reticle without having to think about what power I'm on is huge.

 

[Flyjunky]

I have some of both and really just comes down to what you're more comfortable with for the situations you are in.

I will say though, just because you run a sfp scope doesn't mean that you have to run it a max to use the subtensions. Use it a half and then double them, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon.

 

[BCD]

Ive used both and find the SFP far superior for hunting. I will never buy another FFP

 

[nksmfamjp]

Not sure how much research you’ve done, but I don’t see FFP being majorly beneficial for modern hunting.

I have a hard time with this. I had SFP optics. I cannot imagine going back unless what I wanted had no choice. This is because FFP optics have accurate mil scaling. I use it for quick hold overs and all wind corrections.

Why correct wind by reticle hash marks…..because it is ever changing. Very hard to dial for shifts.

Also, when making a quick 400yd shot, sometimes nervous deer make me want to do a quick mil scale estimate….it is hard to miss at 400 yds, as long as you do something!

SFP makes this impossible or you are using the deer’s body to adjust. How many know where to hold on the deer for wind? I don’t. Frankly, I was just passing up most shots over 350 yds.

Last, on a shot where you need to use mil scale, but deer is too big in scope. This can happen at ~400 yds. What happens is at 20x, the mil scale can be used, but it can be hard to track if a deer is hit. In an ffp, I would just shoot at 10x for more fov.

The thickness and impact at light conditions is something I had not heard before and a major factor.

This thickness, lighting concern is often over blown. Most ffp scopes have illumination. Also, at low power, the thick part of the ffp can be used to place the aim point. At mid power, you get a reticle that is more visible due to all the hash marks…..again usually this is done at 100 yds.

SFP definitely excels in an environment where you will 100% dial. It excels in short range LVPO’s. It is fine on your guns setup using max point blank range methods. It is also generally cheaper.

I own the SWFA 3-15x mil-quad scope. It looks better in real life than the above pics.

 

[BCD]

The crosshairs being very difficult if not impossible to see in low light at low magnification in the timber is a deal breaker for me in regard to FFP. I want a scope that’s versatile in different environments and SFP does that better.

 

[Trophy8]

Only downside to FFP is the reticle can be too small or too large at low and high power. Find a good reticle that gives what you want and rock on. I run 90% FFP scopes. All hunting guns are FFP. The few SFP ones I have are on ARs and rimfires.

Also note that illuminated reticles are sometimes thicker than non illuminated. Leupold Mk5 for example. Illuminated is too thick. I don’t recall ever using my illumination in a hunting scenario. So factor that as well.

 

[freddyG]

The crosshairs being very difficult if not impossible to see in low light at low magnification in the timber is a deal breaker for me in regard to FFP. I want a scope that’s versatile in different environments and SFP does that better.

You are not using the right ffp scopes. If I wanted to, I could hunt all night with my ffp scopes.

 

[SDHNTR]

I'm a hunter. For me, SFP if I want to dial a scope. That way I don't have to crank up to max power and shrink FOV, which is critical for follow up.

Or, if I wanted to use reticle subtens, or holdovers, (which I usually don't) and not dial, I'd get a FFP.

What I don't understand are complex reticle holdovers, dials AND FFP.

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm a hunter. For me, SFP if I want to dial a scope. That way I don't have to crank up to max power and shrink FOV, which is critical for follow up.

This doesn’t make sense- with a SFP if you are using the reticle to hold wind, then most of the time you need to be on max lower- not so with FFP.

Or, if I wanted to use reticle subtens, or holdovers, (which I usually don't) and not dial, I'd get a FFP.

What I don't understand are complex reticle holdovers, dials AND FFP.

Can you give a few examples of what you mean by “complex reticles, holdovers , dials and FFP”?

 

[SDHNTR]

This doesn’t make sense- with a SFP if you are using the reticle to hold wind, then most of the time you need to be on max lower- not so with FFP.


Can you give a few examples of what you mean by “complex reticles, holdovers , dials and FFP”?

I don’t usually use the reticle to hold wind. I do have a couple scopes that have the Swaro 4W, where I could hold wind, but if I did I’d want a spotter cause I’d be cranked up at 18x. But that’s also why I prefer a scope with a wide fov.

I just don’t understand why folks like Christmas tree busy reticles AND dials on a FFP scope. To me, pick one or the other. Holdover reticles and FFP, or a clean reticle with dials and SFP. I’m sure there’s a place for all that in some applications, but when I hunt, I like to keep things more simple. Just me.

 

[Formidilosus]

I don’t usually use the reticle to hold wind. I do have a couple scopes that have the Swaro 4W, where I could hold wind, but if I did I’d want a spotter cause I’d be cranked up at 18x. But that’s also why I prefer a scope with a wide fov.

So how do you deal with wind?


Tree reticles are a separate thing from hunting and are based on some real issues and a while bunch of silliness.

 

[SDHNTR]

So how do you deal with wind?

So how do you deal with wind?


Tree reticles are a separate thing from hunting and are based on some real issues and a while bunch of silliness.

I’ll dial for wind on a target, or hold on a 4W hash, but I’m admittedly not good at it. So when hunting, if wind is an issue, I’ll either not shoot, or try to get closer. I know my limitations.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’ll dial for wind on a target, or hold on a 4W hash, but I’m admittedly not good at it. So when hunting, if wind is an issue, I’ll either not shoot, or try to get closer. I know my limitations.

Ah. Part of being able to shoot at distance is accounting for wind. I guarantee you that part of your trouble with wind is your scope preference. A properly designed FFP mil/mil scope is the simplest and easiest solution. It is no hindrance at close range and dominates at distance. Admittedly most FFP scopes have reticle that suck for all around use, which is one of the reasons that two scope are brought up time and again- they work.

Of the 17 game animals I killed, or those I spotted for killed- 14 had significant wind. And a lot were not at long range either.

 

[SDHNTR]

I’ve killed a couple hundred or more. Maybe half those with a bow. I try to get close first, regardless of wind.

I’ve tried FFP. Couldn’t get used to it.

And I guess I’ll bite? Which two? SWFA and Nightforce somethings?

 

[mississippilpj]

FFP has to be on the highest setting to use things like BDC and MIL DOT accurately.