Felt recoil 7-08 vs. 6.5 CM

[brsnow]

That’s what I’m looking for. On a side note, how did they shoot.


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They both shot great. If you let the barrel get hot the groups will open. I am a much better archer than with rifles but I shoot the kimbers well. I kept the 7mm-08, father in law has the 6.5.

 

[howl]

6.5 is less due to smaller diameter and lighter appropriate bullet weights.

6.5 sweet spot is 120gr bullets. That's the big difference. I have loaded 120gr 7mm08 down to where the recoil was plenty light, but then you have a short bullet.

Lots of people don't care about this at all and the recoil levels being so similar mean it doesn't matter even though they're wrong.

 

[Adkmtn26]

Of these two, in an apples to apples comparison, which one has the lightest felt recoil? I'm not looking to start any kind of a debate between these two calibers in regards to ballistics, etc., just comparing felt recoil. So say the rifles are the exact same UL wt. models, and they're both shooting factory 140gr ammo. Which one is easier on the shoulder?

Both are going to burn nearly identical amounts of powder. If both guns are launching 140s (common weight for both calibers), the recoil will be nearly identical. Ballistically, the 6.5 will have the edge (higher BC at same bullet weight, nearly identical velocity). 7mm is getting above the ideal bullet diameter for that case capacity. Trying to match 6.5 BCs with a 7mm bullet is going to kill case capacity and velocity, and lose out ballistically. Go 6.5 CM, Alpha brass, RL-16, and any good 140-147 grain bullet. It's pretty automatic.

Recoil is subjective..... also has alot to do with the weight of the rifle and shape of the stock. From my experience with a Kimber Montana 6.5CM and Weatherby Mark V Carbine 7mm08 they are very close but the 6.5 has less recoil.

 

[FURMAN]

Guys recoil is NOT subjective. It is physics. It is caused as a result of the weight of the bullet, velocity, and powder charge. Felt recoil will change due to the weight of the rifle and stock design. Maybe I misunderstood the OPs question but he said apples to apples. To me that means when all else is the same. The FACT is if all is the same they will have identical recoil. That means if the rifles were identical and both were shooting, say, a 140 grain bullet with 40 grains of powder at 2750fps the recoil will be exactly the same. We could all argue about the exact loads in each until we are blue in the face. If you crank up the velocity of one it will have a very slight increase in recoil. If you change the weight of the bullet recoil will change. These are the facts.

AK Troutbum you can take what I just said and use it to make the comparison based on which ammo you intend to shoot.

 

[Smithb9841]

Not sure how much this helps but I have a Kimber Hunter in 6.5 with a muzzle break and it honestly feels like your shooting a 243 there is very little recoil I was surprised with how much the break helps I removed the break when I first took it out and there is a noticeable difference with and without the break. Not saying the recoil is bad without but you can notice a difference.

 

[Wrongside]

This was the reason for my post...actually it's an 11 year old "little" girl, in my case. I'm planning on the rifle wearing a break as well, just to take a little bit more of the sting off.

We have a couple 6.5CMs and one 708 in the family. The 708 is my teenage son's- he's 'owned' it from a young age- and it is usually fed 140ish weight bullets. My 6.5s almost exclusively shoot 147 ELDs. They are all different makes/models, but very close in weight and 'set up' very similarly. Shooting them all side by side, I can't feel a recoil difference. 162s in the 708 seem to recoil noticeably more, but even that is slight.

I feel like either would be a great choice for a young shooter, especially with the option of braking her rifle for target practice.

 

[hodgeman]

While recoil isn't subjective..."felt recoil" certainly is and is influenced by a lot of factors- mostly physiology and stock fit. A bad fitting stock can make even a moderate rifle kill at both ends.

My son and I have shot a fair bit of 7-08 and 6.5CM through carbine type rifles. If there's a meaningful difference in felt recoil, we can't find it.

If you have a recoil shy youngster- some 70% charges of H4895 in either cartridge feel like a .223 in full size rifle. My 6.5CM with 129 Interlocks with that load was shooting about 2000fps and you could see bullet impacts at 100yds.

 

[AK Troutbum]

AKTroutbum,

Don't ya already have a 7-08?? If wanting to take some sting out we can also get some handloads made up as well for ya. Doing that for another buddy with a 7-08 already.

I do, or at least my son does, and I have a Fieldcraft in 6.5 that's being shipped up later this week. I got several different ideas floating around so nothing is set in stone thus far, regarding what rifle she (my 11yo daughter), is going to use this fall. I have absolutely zero experience with the 6.5, so that was the reason for the original question. I haven't even decided whether or not it will be either one of these rifles, I guess a lot of that will depend on how I feel about the FC. I'm not opposed to purchasing another rifle if the right deal, in the right caliber, were to pop up, but I do like the idea of low recoiling loads to start her off on.

 

[AK Troutbum]

If you have a recoil shy youngster- some 70% charges of H4895 in either cartridge feel like a .223 in full size rifle. My 6.5CM with 129 Interlocks with that load was shooting about 2000fps and you could see bullet impacts at 100yds.

She's not necessarily recoil shy, to my knowledge, because she's never shot anything that has much, if any, recoil. She does have somewhat of a passive personality though, and although that may have nothing to do with how she responds to recoil, I still want to introduce her to it very slowly.
Her older brother has had no problem with recoil and was proficiently shooting my 7 lb .300wsm when he was 12, but she's just a different animal and I want to be a little more careful with her.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Well we can certainly make up some lower recoiling rounds in either one if you are feeling froggy and our schedules align....than I can get my packraft back too

What packraft?? Yeah, that sounds good Luke, lets try and touch bases here later on this summer and do that. Also, let me know when you're available next and I've get that PR back to ya.

 

[howl]

Guys recoil is NOT subjective. It is physics. It is caused as a result of the weight of the bullet, velocity, and powder charge. Felt recoil will change due to the weight of the rifle and stock design. Maybe I misunderstood the OPs question but he said apples to apples. To me that means when all else is the same. The FACT is if all is the same they will have identical recoil. That means if the rifles were identical and both were shooting, say, a 140 grain bullet with 40 grains of powder at 2750fps the recoil will be exactly the same. We could all argue about the exact loads in each until we are blue in the face. If you crank up the velocity of one it will have a very slight increase in recoil. If you change the weight of the bullet recoil will change. These are the facts.

AK Troutbum you can take what I just said and use it to make the comparison based on which ammo you intend to shoot.

If everything is the same, including somehow having barrels which do not skew speed one way or another, etc., etc., etc., then the 7mm will be faster due to the broader bullet base. Increased velocity will give increased recoil. This matches my experience but I have not even come close to accounting for all variables.

 

[FURMAN]

If everything is the same, including somehow having barrels which do not skew speed one way or another, etc., etc., etc., then the 7mm will be faster due to the broader bullet base. Increased velocity will give increased recoil. This matches my experience but I have not even come close to accounting for all variables.

He asked for apples to apples. I will not stay in this thread and argue but you are wrong in your statement. If we start applying real world the same powder and charge in the same case with the same weight bullet will actually have lower pressure in the larger bore and therefore less velocity and less recoil. You would most likely have to increase powder charge to get to the same velocity. This would add slightly more recoil. A higher velocity would most likely be able to be achieved in the larger bore which, then would cause even more recoil. Most likely less than 1 ft/lb but more none the less. That is why I made the, very clear, statement about how we could argue about loads until we are blue in the face(I will not). I made no incorrect statement and as far as I am concerned answers his exact question without speculation. The recoil is bullet weight, powder charge, and velocity. The two cartridges are not what is going to cause the difference in recoil. The load will be the differentiating factor. You could choose a load with the 6.5 that will have more recoil than a load chosen in the 7mm. I am pretty sure I made that clear in my post. I will not post again in this thread. It seems as if he has it figured out.

 

[howl]

He asked for apples to apples. I will not stay in this thread and argue but you are wrong in your statement. If we start applying real world the same powder and charge in the same case with the same weight bullet will actually have lower pressure in the larger bore and therefore less velocity and less recoil. You would most likely have to increase powder charge to get to the same velocity. This would add slightly more recoil. A higher velocity would most likely be able to be achieved in the larger bore which, then would cause even more recoil. Most likely less than 1 ft/lb but more none the less. That is why I made the, very clear, statement about how we could argue about loads until we are blue in the face(I will not). I made no incorrect statement and as far as I am concerned answers his exact question without speculation. The recoil is bullet weight, powder charge, and velocity. The two cartridges are not what is going to cause the difference in recoil. The load will be the differentiating factor. You could choose a load with the 6.5 that will have more recoil than a load chosen in the 7mm. I am pretty sure I made that clear in my post. I will not post again in this thread. It seems as if he has it figured out.

There's for sure no argument. The point of these things is to learn. If you don't want to, there is certainly no point in participating.

 

[Axlrod]

Here is a recoil calculator you can use: https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/free-recoil-calculation-spreadsheet.19030/
As rfurman said it is physics, and shooting the same weight bullet at the same velocity in the same gun will be the same recoil.

 

[Newtosavage]

Long-time 7mm-08 shooter here. I've owned 5 now.

First time I shot a 6.5 CM I was expecting noticeably less recoil but that's not what happened. I was surprised at how much recoil it had for what appeared to be an obviously "smaller" round than the 7mm-08.

Right now, my two hunting rifles are a Tikka T3 7mm-08 and a Savage LWH in 6.5 CM - they both weigh exactly the same. To be honest I think the 6.5 CM feels like it kicks more for whatever reason. Might be the walnut stock on it vs. the synthetic stock on the Tikka.

 

[Formidilosus]

This was the reason for my post...actually it's an 11 year old "little" girl, in my case. I'm planning on the rifle wearing a break as well, just to take a little bit more of the sting off.

She's not necessarily recoil shy, to my knowledge, because she's never shot anything that has much, if any, recoil. She does have somewhat of a passive personality though, and although that may have nothing to do with how she responds to recoil, I still want to introduce her to it very slowly.
Her older brother has had no problem with recoil and was proficiently shooting my 7 lb .300wsm when he was 12, but she's just a different animal and I want to be a little more careful with her.

What animals is she looking to hunt legitimately?

 

[AK Troutbum]

What animals is she looking to hunt legitimately?

I’ll probably be taking her to Kodiak with me this fall, and she would more than likely just be deer hunting, but I might let her fill my goat tag if the opportunity presents itself.


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[Formidilosus]

I’ll probably be taking her to Kodiak with me this fall, and she would more than likely just be deer hunting, but I might let her fill my goat tag if the opportunity presents itself.

I’ve taught a bunch of new/young shooters and hunters, whether they admit it or not almost all develop a flinch with anything more recoil than a 243’ish. A fast twist 223 with heavy bullets would be where I would start. If not, have you looked at the 6.5 Grendel?

 

[theleo91386]

This was the reason for my post...actually it's an 11 year old "little" girl, in my case. I'm planning on the rifle wearing a break as well, just to take a little bit more of the sting off.

The only way this discussion is remotely relevant is if you WERE NOT going to be putting a brake on the rifle. Brakes don't take out a little sting, they take out a lot, if they didn't they'd never get used with how much louder they make a rifle. Either cartridge will only produce, at most, recoil equivalent to a mid level 243 load in a standard rifle if that.

If I was going down this road knowing the rifle was going to have a brake installed I'd up things to a 6.5 PRC or 270WSM and buying an extra stock.

 

[bikinitoboots]

Of these two, in an apples to apples comparison, which one has the lightest felt recoil? I'm not looking to start any kind of a debate between these two calibers in regards to ballistics, etc., just comparing felt recoil. So say the rifles are the exact same UL wt. models, and they're both shooting factory 140gr ammo. Which one is easier on the shoulder?

I’m not a brand new shooter and I’m also not an extremely experienced shooter-nor am I an 11 year old girl. With that being said, I hunt with a 6.5 CM and I love it, but I had to work up to it. I understand the science behind recoil and all, but “felt recoil”/pain tolerance, etc is subjective. And in my subjective opinion, it had quite a kick, and I’m a full grown female. No, it doesn’t hurt(unless I get excited and instead of putting it into my shoulder it rests on my collarbone), but I definitely acknowledge that it forcefully pushes into my shoulder. And in the beginning I flinched like crazy-throwing shots all over. Even now if I haven’t shot it in a while, I flinch because I know it’s going to recoil. I’m sure she’s a tough little girl, which means she might not want to admit how much she feels the recoil. It’s awesome that you’re not starting her out on a 300 wm, way to go dad! That being said-I’ve hunted deer in the east and the west and used my 223. I loveee the 223. It’s a super fun gun to shoot and you can practice a ton with it. When I first started even a 243 felt like a lot of recoil. The only reason I went to a 6.5 CM is because of Colorado’s game laws.