Lighter bullets for less recoil in 6.5CM

[ztc92]

Got back out to the range last night, tried the 107’s with 44g of H4350. Accuracy was acceptable but not great. No pressure signs or hang fires, which was a big relief.

I had 20 rounds loaded so used 3 to zero, then shot 7 at the first target to confirm zero and then shot the remaining 10 rounds at the second target. Was fighting a bit of mirage so perhaps that affected the accuracy a bit, though I never shot more than 5 rounds without letting the barrel cool.

The orange dots are 1.5” so the 10 round group looks to be about 2 MOA. Should be fine for practice ammo. Probably try and find better accuracy with a different powder (Maybe Varget or XBR 8208?) if I decide to use these 107’s on deer or antelope though. I think I’ll stick with the 130’s for elk.

I will say the reduced recoil is a nice boost. Makes the 6.5 a bit more pleasant to shoot for multiple rounds of practice.

 

[ztc92]

A few more updates on this pet project.

I had about 70 cases with SRP primed and sized to load and about 1/2 pound of H4350 from an old lot (about to switch to a new lot after this). Decided to just load the remaining cases and use up the remaining H4350. Went with 42g and loaded a little longer (2.830”) since they’ll just be practice rounds and less recoil is the goal.



Talked with @Formidilosus a bit and did some reading about SRP in the creedmore. I always knew it wasn’t designed for them but until recently I’d never had issues. I initially used SRP’s because it was all I could find during covid but thankfully things are better now and I have a good supply of LRP’s. Form mentioned that hang fires are a fairly common problem with SRP brass in creedmores, especially with ball powders. Until this little reloading adventure I’ve only used H4350 so that may be why I haven’t had issues before.

With that in mind, I prepped a few hundred once fired Hornady LRP brass that I got from another student at the S2H class. I’m going to try loading them with 40g of lever and see if the hangfires resolve. I’ll also try some with H4350 to see if accuracy is any better. If those aren’t acceptable, next steps will be to try Varget or Big Game, which both are listed as good options in the Sierra Manual. Last resort would be to use 8208 but I’d like to save that for my 223 if possible.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I have some 120-grain TSX which I look forward to trying out in my CM. I bought them only as a hedge against stupid anti-lead initiatives spreading. I pick my copper bullets based upon trying to get them the same length as my preferred lead bullets.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[ztc92]

Asked around and found a few other powders to try in conjunction with the LRP Hornady brass I prepped. Landed on the following loads based on reloading manuals and some Internet research. Please try at your own risk, some of these required deep digging to find load info or are estimated from similar weight bullets.

I used the easy reloading method and loaded 10 of each powder at estimated max charge. All loads were as follows:
- 107 TMK loaded to 2.830” OAL
- Once fired Hornady LRP brass
- CCI 200 primers

1) 44g of H4350

2) 45g of H4831SC

3) 42g of Varget

4) 40g of Lever

I made it out to the range tonight to test them all. Shooting prone off a pack at 100 yards. Rifle is a factory Tikka in 6.5Creedmore cut and threaded at 18” with a prototype of the US OG suppressor.





Sometimes I wonder why I bother experimenting. Looks like H4350 could be a winner as it seems to shoot a lot better with LRP brass. I didn’t have any hangfires with any of the powders I tried, which was also a welcome relief.

It was a good day to test for pressure, too. Bright sunny day and 92 on the thermometer with a slight breeze. I saw mild pressure signs on half the rounds with Varget, so it seems that load was a bit hot. I also had pressure on 3/10 of the loads with H4350 and 2/10 of the rounds with Lever. No pressure with H4831 and likely couldn’t fill the case enough to find pressure.

The lever load showed promise with 8/10 shots in a nice group so I wonder if the two with pressure signs were the same 2 that went far away from the rest. I hope to try both lever and H4350 again when the weather is cooler since I have a large supply of both. I’ll likely end up with H4350 for hunting ammo but would be nice if I could get lever to group so I can use it up for practice ammo in the mean time.

 

[Natebonebusta]

Asked around and found a few other powders to try in conjunction with the LRP Hornady brass I prepped. Landed on the following loads based on reloading manuals and some Internet research. Please try at your own risk, some of these required deep digging to find load info or are estimated from similar weight bullets.

I used the easy reloading method and loaded 10 of each powder at estimated max charge. All loads were as follows:
- 107 TMK loaded to 2.830” OAL
- Once fired Hornady LRP brass
- CCI 200 primers

1) 44g of H4350

2) 45g of H4831SC

3) 42g of Varget

4) 40g of Lever

I made it out to the range tonight to test them all. Shooting prone off a pack at 100 yards. Rifle is a factory Tikka in 6.5Creedmore cut and threaded at 18” with a prototype of the US OG suppressor.

View attachment 906663

View attachment 906664

Sometimes I wonder why I bother experimenting. Looks like H4350 could be a winner as it seems to shoot a lot better with LRP brass. I didn’t have any hangfires with any of the powders I tried, which was also a welcome relief.

It was a good day to test for pressure, too. Bright sunny day and 92 on the thermometer with a slight breeze. I saw mild pressure signs on half the rounds with Varget, so it seems that load was a bit hot. I also had pressure on 3/10 of the loads with H4350 and 2/10 of the rounds with Lever. No pressure with H4831 and likely couldn’t fill the case enough to find pressure.

The lever load showed promise with 8/10 shots in a nice group so I wonder if the two with pressure signs were the same 2 that went far away from the rest. I hope to try both lever and H4350 again when the weather is cooler since I have a large supply of both. I’ll likely end up with H4350 for hunting ammo but would be nice if I could get lever to group so I can use it up for practice ammo in the mean time.

I haven’t tried 107 TMK’s in my Creedmoor, and now won’t bother. I have tried them in my Grendel and I’m getting about the same groupings. Xterminator has been my best powder. I just believe it’s a bullet that isn’t inherently accurate.

 

[Castle Rock]

 

[PC356]

Had hell getting the 107 TMKs to group acceptably myself in a 16” Tikka Creedmoor, using H4350 anyway.
Had much better luck with 100 grain Scenars.

 

[longrangelead]

I’m all in on smaller calibers for shooting and hunting and like many, my two go to rifles are a Tikka RSS in 223 for practice and a Tikka 6.5CM for hunting. I live in Wyoming so must have at least 6mm for elk and would prefer to have one go-to hunting rifle and load that I use for all big game. I set my 6.5CM up to shoot the 130TMK so I had one rifle I could carry for deer and elk.

A few friends have downsized to 6mm and after shooting our nearly identical Tikkas in 6.5CM with 130’s vs their 243 and 6CM with 108’s, I find the reduced recoil of he 6mm is even better. It was significant enough that it has me considering a rebarrel of my 6.5 to a 6mm. Then I came across the 100g ELD-VT and the 107TMK. It has me thinking maybe I should load these lighter bullets for practice and then use the 130’s for hunting. Thing is, I shot a mule deer buck with the 130TMK last year and the damage was catastrophic. I’d actually prefer a much smaller wound, at least for deer or antelope.

I’ve taken an elk with the 223/77TMK in Montana so I know it works. Given the damage seen with 77TMK and 95TMK, I suspect the 107TMK would be fine on deer and there are a few reports from hunters that support this. However, it gives me pause when I think of using it on elk since it is not heavy for caliber and may not penetrate as well.

Interestingly, on paper the 130TMK at 2700 FPS (my gun’s data) and the 107TMK at 2900 FPS (a conservative estimate) are nearly identical. They are both 5MPH guns for wind and both hit 1800 FPS at ~650 yards where I hunt, which is plenty far for me. The ELD-VT is just slightly better thanks to a similar BC to the 107TMK but with an increase in velocity to 3000 FPS (conservative estimate).

I may pick up some of the 107TMK to play with, and maybe even hunt with them if they shoot well. I just thought I’d share as I was surprised to see the 107 and 130 are nearly identical ballistically. I’d also be curious to hear from anyone with experience using the 107TMK on big game.

For those curious, this photo shows the two TMK’s I’m referencing and a few SMK’s as well.

Buy a 243 take off barrel from UM, send rifle and barrel to me.


I may or may not have a 243 AI reamer on the way...just sayin...

 

[ztc92]

I haven’t tried 107 TMK’s in my Creedmoor, and now won’t bother. I have tried them in my Grendel and I’m getting about the same groupings. Xterminator has been my best powder. I just believe it’s a bullet that isn’t inherently accurate. View attachment 906722View attachment 906723

I think this really puts things in perspective. I’m over here exceedingly happy with a 1.2” 10-shot group (may be the best I’ve shot with this rifle) and others like yourself find that unacceptable.

For my goals of hunting and practicing, 1.2” is better then I need and I’m plenty content with it. I hope to do a bit more testing with Lever and H4350, I’ll report back as things progress. Tentatively planning to use this bullet to hunt this fall, hopefully get a chance to report back on deer, antelope and maybe even elk. I’m estimating velocity will be around that at around 2900 FPS but anticipating shots at 200+ yards so I think this bullet will do well in that velocity range.

 

[ztc92]

Buy a 243 take off barrel from UM, send rifle and barrel to me.


I may or may not have a 243 AI reamer on the way...just sayin...

I’ve already considered picking up a take off 243 multiple times. I go back and forth on if/when to do that, but ultimately I want to shoot out this 6.5 barrel just as a testament to practicing enough to be proficient.

That said, the fact that you have the AI reamer on the way may make this too much to resist. That’s gonna be a laser beam and a joy to shoot, plus less trimming will be nice. Now if we could just get Sierra to fulfill the back orders on the 95TMK’s we’d be in business!

 

[Natebonebusta]

I think this really puts things in perspective. I’m over here exceedingly happy with a 1.2” 10-shot group (may be the best I’ve shot with this rifle) and others like yourself find that unacceptable.

For my goals of hunting and practicing, 1.2” is better then I need and I’m plenty content with it. I hope to do a bit more testing with Lever and H4350, I’ll report back as things progress. Tentatively planning to use this bullet to hunt this fall, hopefully get a chance to report back on deer, antelope and maybe even elk. I’m estimating velocity will be around that at around 2900 FPS but anticipating shots at 200+ yards so I think this bullet will do well in that velocity range.

I certainly subscribe to the 1.5moa 10 shot guidelines. It’s helped me to conserve components, not having to stick bullet on top of bullet in a group.

Out of all the weights I’ve tried from 95gr Vmax up to 123gr sst, the 107tmk has given me the most subpar results. I really wanted that bullet to work for the same reasons as you, speed and terminal damage.

I look forward to seeing some field results with your loads.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I think the only way to find out is to shoot an animal with them, or find an instance online of someone shooting an animal or ordinance gel with them.

Other than that, a 107 .264 bullet has very similar SD to a 150 grain .308 bullet. All things being equal one could assume similar penetration to a similarly constructed 150 grain .308 bullet at a similar impact velocity.

I said similar way too many times.

And the 6.5 123gr eldm is identical sd as a 168gr 308 (.252/.253 sd). If a guy wants to stay at or above .5 g1 bc and at or above .25 sd, that’s a good place to be for big game hunting and eldm’s, very happy with penetration and damage from both the 123 and 168 as that’s what’s in our house and killing awesome, have been launching from 2386 to 2605 fps through various guns, drt the norm, still fight wind well and allow pretty easy shooting to 500 in most conditions you gotta be having a pretty bad day to not shoot well there, starts to fall/drift off and make you actually do your part at 600

 

[UnckleBob]

I just got my 6 arc 18 gasser running good. Had a few hiccups. I was trying to use 4198 I believe and it was so dirty it'd shut the gun down after a few rounds. Using varget now. But using a gasser you lose about 150 fps but still great for deer pushing a 108 eldm at 2500 and change. I really want to pickup a howa mini for the $550 or whatever and have a bolt gun. Just make sure I don't get the ammo mixed up between the two guns.
I think the way that Sig Cross stock is designed it's not the best for managing recoil even with a can. That cheek riser sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I picked up a Howa mini 6ARC earlier this year. I eventually went all in with the CF barrel and stock. Even without a can, it is a baby to shoot.

To prevent issues with handloads, I only shoot reloads in the bolt gun.

 

[UnckleBob]

Thank you sir, you are too kind

I am spoiled by my 223 but live in WY where 6mm is minimum for elk. Every time I shoot my creedmore, I think “this isn’t so bad”. Then I shoot the 223 and realize I want to build a 6ARC because the reduced recoil is such a joy to shoot.

My goal with the 107’s out of my creedmore is to get a feel for what this gun would be like as a 6creedmore with 108’s. Based on my few shots so far, I’d still prefer less recoil and a 6 ARC…

For my son (and I), I bought a 6ARC Howa Mini. He is in the spectrum and reacts poorly to loud noises and blasts. With a can on it, it doesn't recoil much more than a 22LR and the can completely tames the blast.

My daughter destroyed a whitetail deer at 100yards with my old 6ARC. It is a great deer cartridge imo.