Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting

[wind gypsy]

Haven’t had time to shoot for a couple of weeks. I changed rings and mounts on my Kimber recently. That fixes the ejection issues I was having with the Leupold mounts. Tested a new magazine with no feeding issues.

Shot a round, adjusted and shot 10 more. After zero, I shot 10 seated, over trekking poles.

View attachment 765637

Still trending a little high, although I shot another group prone with the bipod after this and ended up adjusting down .2 mil for zero.

This is my position. Feel free to critique. @mxgsfmdpx @PNWGATOR @Formidilosus

View attachment 765638

I've been doing the same (trend high). Need to shoot more to understand if i'm dropping at the shot or if my trigger press is pulling the POA up. It does feel like my trigger press is a little aggressive once the sites settle - feels a bit like "target panic" with archery stuff.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I've been doing the same (trend high). Need to shoot more to understand if i'm dropping at the shot or if my trigger press is pulling the POA up. It does feel like my trigger press is a little aggressive once the sites settle - feels a bit like "target panic" with archery stuff.

I’m about 99.99% positive mine is related to structure/base, or it’s the alignment of my trigger hand. Trigger press is surprise break every time.

It’s easy to try and time it and do a “drive by” when you’re doing positional shooting.

 

[Miflatlander91]

Mine is the opposite they always end up low during the drill I’m thinking it might be my rear support during recoil since it doesn’t show up on dry fire


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ztc92]

Gave this another go today. Worked on positions for a bit and then did the 4 position medley five times. Shot a 9 / 20 with many near misses. I have started to get pretty comfortable with prone and seated supported but man I hate the seated unsupported and off hand positions…

 

[ztc92]

On another note, would love some advice from the group. For seated supported with front and rear rest I’m using hiking sticks in front and backpack to support my shooting arm. I c-camp the forend of the rifle with my support hand on the hiking sticks and feel this works well but I’m struggling with the rear rest. I’ve heard people describe “hugging” the backpack but can’t seem to get comfortable with that. Best setup I’ve found based on wobble zone and group size is to lay the backpack across my lap and tuck my shooting hand elbow into it for support, kind of like an enhanced seated unsupported position.

Any thoughts on ideal setup for front and rear rest in a seated position?

 

[SouthPaw]

On another note, would love some advice from the group. For seated supported with front and rear rest I’m using hiking sticks in front and backpack to support my shooting arm. I c-camp the forend of the rifle with my support hand on the hiking sticks and feel this works well but I’m struggling with the rear rest. I’ve heard people describe “hugging” the backpack but can’t seem to get comfortable with that. Best setup I’ve found based on wobble zone and group size is to lay the backpack across my lap and tuck my shooting hand elbow into it for support, kind of like an enhanced seated unsupported position.

Any thoughts on ideal setup for front and rear rest in a seated position?

Cant say if this style is ideal or right for the drill, but at least when shooting off a slope like often occurs when hunting mountains, I've found putting the pack upright under shooting arm to support the butt of the gun to be quite solid. Killed one of my elk last year like this.



That said, I still prefer kneeling with front and rear rest over sitting if that option is available with the given environment. Have you given kneeling a try?

 

[ztc92]

Cant say if this style is ideal or right for the drill, but at least when shooting off a slope like often occurs when hunting mountains, I've found putting the pack upright under shooting arm to support the butt of the gun to be quite solid. Killed one of my elk last year like this.

View attachment 768689

That said, I still prefer kneeling with front and rear rest over sitting if that option is available with the given environment. Have you given kneeling a try?

Thank you for sharing this, especially with a photo for reference. I’ve tried something similar but on flat ground at the range and it seems as though the bag is too tall to get comfortable under my arm. I’m betting on a slope like that it would work well though. I’ll have to keep trying some alternatives but I appreciate your input!

 

[HighUintas]

You guys have any pointers on keeping poi consistent between bench, prone, and different rear rests?

I went to true my velocity today and it didn't go well. I continually missed high and high left. Wind was between 8-12mph right to left. 828yds. DA 6400ft, 2920fps w 112 match burner. My shooter app called for 5.2mil. I hit the 10" plate by dialing 4.9. the velocity correction is 3000fps. I'm fairly certain that my load is 2920 and not 3000.

So here's my zero groups prior to attempting to true velocity, using my pack as front and pinching butt stock in rear with either bino harness or wadded up shirt underneath my hand.

I'm having a pretty tough time with consistency when pinching the butt stock and using something to stabilize the hand rather than letting the stock ride the rest.

The below is pretty bad and has me wondering if it's my load

9-22-24


9-24-22

 

[Nevwild]

Attempt 2.
10/20 raw score.
7/20 real score because 3 went over time.

View attachment 716657
Takeaways:
Offhand is hard.
Seared unsupported is hard too.

The two shots in the circle for offhand were grouped pretty closely. It felt like I did the same kind of shot for those two. I want to figure out how to make that pattern repeatable.

When I’m seated unsupported it seems like I shoot down and right consistently. I need to analyze why that happens. Does anybody have any insights as to why that might be? Maybe I’m pulling the trigger in a weird way?

It seems like I totally missed the paper on at least one of the shots on everything but prone.

Confounding factors:
Pollen was everywhere and I was sneezing constantly. This is not an excuse, but it was a reality.
I’m working through different supports for my supported seated position, and the process on that is not smooth. I definitely lost time on two shots with that.

I missed the time on at least one of the three shots because my parallax was completely off, and I fumbled with getting it set correctly.

Going to return to my dry fire practice with these new takeaways, and I will plan on working through them until I get a chance to try this drill again

I have done this drill at least 15 times times since this post.

I slowly got consistently up to a score of 12, but i couldn't seem to break past that level.

The last 3 times I have scored 16. I am VERY pleased with this improvement.

I attribute these improvements to:

1. Dry Fire Practise. I kept at the dry fire mentioned in my previous posts, and that repetition built out good habits. It also gave me time to work on different positions for seated unsupported.
   
   
2. Seated Unsupported improvement. I spent a ton of time trying to improve this. I found this article, and saw this image.
   
   I found this position worked well. I can nestle my elbow on my knee, and the trigger guard naturally falls into the crook of my elbow. With a bit of practise I was able to get my trigger hand in comfortably. I find I can increase elevation of my crosshairs by flexing my bicep.
   
   This position reduced wobble quite a bit and my ability to shoot into the 5moa circle increased from 1-2 out of 4 to 3-4 out of 4.
   
   I then found a better variation of this position. Instead of sitting with one leg down and one leg up, I bring both knees into my chest. I then put my non trigger hand on top of my back knee. I can then rest the butt of my rifle in the webbing of my thumb.
   
   This position allows me to get stability from my shin bones for both the front and the rear of the rifle.
   
   I am able to hit in the 3moa circle with a score of 3/4 with this position. I can quickly get into it. I think it will be my go-to field position unless I find something better.
   
   
3. All of this helped, and got my score to the 12-13 range. I didn't get the bump to 16 until i got my 6.5 creed suppressed. That reduction of recoil and reduction of flinch gave me a 3 point bump. I can now occasionally get groups of 5 offhand into the 5moa circle. This was unthinkable when I started this process, and I think the suppressor really, really helped.
   
   At the HAHA one of the speakers said that a suppressed 6.5 creed shooting the 147 ELD-M was the max recoil you could have before scores dropped doing the drill discussed here. My experience is another data point that points to that being true.
   
   Thank you to @Formidilosus for putting this drill up on this forum. It has proven to be incredibly valuable in my confidence behind a rifle. Also, thank you to those in this thread (like @TaperPin for his offhand tips and @SouthPaw for his backpack supported picture) who have shared their findings. I have learned a lot from all of you.

 

[TaperPin]

I have done this drill at least 15 times times since this post.

I slowly got consistently up to a score of 12, but i couldn't seem to break past that level.

The last 3 times I have scored 16. I am VERY pleased with this improvement.

I attribute these improvements to:

1. Dry Fire Practise. I kept at the dry fire mentioned in my previous posts, and that repetition built out good habits. It also gave me time to work on different positions for seated unsupported.
   
   
2. Seated Unsupported improvement. I spent a ton of time trying to improve this. I found this article, and saw this image. View attachment 775602
   
   I found this position worked well. I can nestle my elbow on my knee, and the trigger guard naturally falls into the crook of my elbow. With a bit of practise I was able to get my trigger hand in comfortably. I find I can increase elevation of my crosshairs by flexing my bicep.
   
   This position reduced wobble quite a bit and my ability to shoot into the 5moa circle increased from 1-2 out of 4 to 3-4 out of 4.
   
   I then found a better variation of this position. Instead of sitting with one leg down and one leg up, I bring both knees into my chest. I then put my non trigger hand on top of my back knee. I can then rest the butt of my rifle in the webbing of my thumb.
   
   This position allows me to get stability from my shin bones for both the front and the rear of the rifle.
   
   I am able to hit in the 3moa circle with a score of 3/4 with this position. I can quickly get into it. I think it will be my go-to field position unless I find something better.
   
   
3. All of this helped, and got my score to the 12-13 range. I didn't get the bump to 16 until i got my 6.5 creed suppressed. That reduction of recoil and reduction of flinch gave me a 3 point bump. I can now occasionally get groups of 5 offhand into the 5moa circle. This was unthinkable when I started this process, and I think the suppressor really, really helped.
   
   At the HAHA one of the speakers said that a suppressed 6.5 creed shooting the 147 ELD-M was the max recoil you could have before scores dropped doing the drill discussed here. My experience is another data point that points to that being true.
   
   Thank you to @Formidilosus for putting this drill up on this forum. It has proven to be incredibly valuable in my confidence behind a rifle. Also, thank you to those in this thread (like @TaperPin for his offhand tips and @SouthPaw for his backpack supported picture) who have shared their findings. I have learned a lot from all of you.

Good job on the increased hit rates in a relatively short amount of time. It sounds like you have good self awareness, asked the right questions, digested advice well, and put the work in. You’re at a fun point - now that you have a solid base with muscle memory, and have seen how small changes can improve scores, you’ll be able to try out new things and see smaller incremental improvements over the years.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have done this drill at least 15 times times since this post.

I slowly got consistently up to a score of 12, but i couldn't seem to break past that level.

The last 3 times I have scored 16. I am VERY pleased with this improvement.

I attribute these improvements to:

1. Dry Fire Practise. I kept at the dry fire mentioned in my previous posts, and that repetition built out good habits. It also gave me time to work on different positions for seated unsupported.
   
   
2. Seated Unsupported improvement. I spent a ton of time trying to improve this. I found this article, and saw this image. View attachment 775602
   
   I found this position worked well. I can nestle my elbow on my knee, and the trigger guard naturally falls into the crook of my elbow. With a bit of practise I was able to get my trigger hand in comfortably. I find I can increase elevation of my crosshairs by flexing my bicep.
   
   This position reduced wobble quite a bit and my ability to shoot into the 5moa circle increased from 1-2 out of 4 to 3-4 out of 4.
   
   I then found a better variation of this position. Instead of sitting with one leg down and one leg up, I bring both knees into my chest. I then put my non trigger hand on top of my back knee. I can then rest the butt of my rifle in the webbing of my thumb.
   
   This position allows me to get stability from my shin bones for both the front and the rear of the rifle.
   
   I am able to hit in the 3moa circle with a score of 3/4 with this position. I can quickly get into it. I think it will be my go-to field position unless I find something better.
   
   
3. All of this helped, and got my score to the 12-13 range. I didn't get the bump to 16 until i got my 6.5 creed suppressed. That reduction of recoil and reduction of flinch gave me a 3 point bump. I can now occasionally get groups of 5 offhand into the 5moa circle. This was unthinkable when I started this process, and I think the suppressor really, really helped.
   
   At the HAHA one of the speakers said that a suppressed 6.5 creed shooting the 147 ELD-M was the max recoil you could have before scores dropped doing the drill discussed here. My experience is another data point that points to that being true.
   
   Thank you to @Formidilosus for putting this drill up on this forum. It has proven to be incredibly valuable in my confidence behind a rifle. Also, thank you to those in this thread (like @TaperPin for his offhand tips and @SouthPaw for his backpack supported picture) who have shared their findings. I have learned a lot from all of you.

16/20 is a good score.

 

[amassi]

I have done this drill at least 15 times times since this post.

I slowly got consistently up to a score of 12, but i couldn't seem to break past that level.

The last 3 times I have scored 16. I am VERY pleased with this improvement.

I attribute these improvements to:

1. Dry Fire Practise. I kept at the dry fire mentioned in my previous posts, and that repetition built out good habits. It also gave me time to work on different positions for seated unsupported.
   
   
2. Seated Unsupported improvement. I spent a ton of time trying to improve this. I found this article, and saw this image. View attachment 775602
   
   I found this position worked well. I can nestle my elbow on my knee, and the trigger guard naturally falls into the crook of my elbow. With a bit of practise I was able to get my trigger hand in comfortably. I find I can increase elevation of my crosshairs by flexing my bicep.
   
   This position reduced wobble quite a bit and my ability to shoot into the 5moa circle increased from 1-2 out of 4 to 3-4 out of 4.
   
   I then found a better variation of this position. Instead of sitting with one leg down and one leg up, I bring both knees into my chest. I then put my non trigger hand on top of my back knee. I can then rest the butt of my rifle in the webbing of my thumb.
   
   This position allows me to get stability from my shin bones for both the front and the rear of the rifle.
   
   I am able to hit in the 3moa circle with a score of 3/4 with this position. I can quickly get into it. I think it will be my go-to field position unless I find something better.
   
   
3. All of this helped, and got my score to the 12-13 range. I didn't get the bump to 16 until i got my 6.5 creed suppressed. That reduction of recoil and reduction of flinch gave me a 3 point bump. I can now occasionally get groups of 5 offhand into the 5moa circle. This was unthinkable when I started this process, and I think the suppressor really, really helped.
   
   At the HAHA one of the speakers said that a suppressed 6.5 creed shooting the 147 ELD-M was the max recoil you could have before scores dropped doing the drill discussed here. My experience is another data point that points to that being true.
   
   Thank you to @Formidilosus for putting this drill up on this forum. It has proven to be incredibly valuable in my confidence behind a rifle. Also, thank you to those in this thread (like @TaperPin for his offhand tips and @SouthPaw for his backpack supported picture) who have shared their findings. I have learned a lot from all of you.

Don’t flex to increase/decrease elevation
Move your foot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Fun morning of shooting before helping a buddy out on a hunt this weekend here in AZ.

Shot a coyote and then missed his buddy for a double kill on the way out, so the below shot is not a "true" cold bore shot, although the barrel had fully cooled sitting in the back seat for 45 minutes bouncing around.

Seated shot, front long Spartan bipod, no rear rest. 608 Yards. Dialed up 3 MIL, held left 0.7ish MIL (wobbled from 0.5-1.0 MIL as the shot broke).

Perfect elevation dial and lucky/perfect wind hold/call as I center punched the gong. Was able to get around 100 or so rounds through the 22 Creedmoor and 2 other guns as well, practicing various shooting positions from 200 yards out to 1,200 yards with strong and variable/shifting winds. Too much fun.


Something caught my eye on the way out, if you haven't seen these guys often, they blend in so well you'd likely drive or hike right on past them.



Saw this very nice mature, dark colored desert ram, he watched me watch him for about 10 minutes at only 147 yards. There were two more ewes with him, the one behind him was constantly licking and biting his butt/back area she didn't care about me one bit.

 

[Bluumoon]

Had a long time to set up this position, but it was rock solid allowing for 3 quick shots and a bull to pack out.

 

[ztc92]

Thank you to all who have contributed to this thread. 2 years ago I tried shooting with a pack as a front rest and had no clue what I was doing, ending up in a combination of kneeling and sitting, firing 4 shots total with 3 hits. The elk died right there but I wasn’t proud of my shooting.

I’ve practiced a lot since then, usually doing some version of the hunting rifle drill with a focus on building/breaking positions. Also attended the S2H 0-600 yard course, which was a huge help.

Put it all to good use today, used the seated supported position to kill a mule deer buck with a downhill angle and tall grass that made a prone shot impossible. Shot hit exactly where I was aiming and I even saw the buck hump up at impact in the scope.

Again, thank you all, your tips and tricks have been immensely helpful!

 

[SkunkCabbage]

Well I got humbled yesterday playing with this.

Any positional tips to help?
I find myself pressing down on my scope to steady up shooting off the pack or prone unsupported.

Horrible free standing/seated. I really need to put some work in off the bench.

 

[longmire-mt]

First time through the drill with my budget RSS. Thought I was gonna do much worse than I did. Definitely need to work on off hand to get more comfortable. Hard to find a comfortable position seated unsupported too.

15/20

 

[Marbles]

Well I got humbled yesterday playing with this.

Any positional tips to help?
I find myself pressing down on my scope to steady up shooting off the pack or prone unsupported.

I use to do that (press down on the scope). Stop.

Use your support hand to hold the butt close to your shoulder. Thumb and pointer finger pinch the butt, holding a bag or something in the other 3 fingers to fill the gap also helps.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I use to do that (press down on the scope). Stop.

Use your support hand to hold the butt close to your shoulder. Thumb and pointer finger pinch the butt, holding a bag or something in the other 3 fingers to fill the gap also helps.

This is the way.

 

[Formidilosus]

First time through the drill with my budget RSS. Thought I was gonna do much worse than I did. Definitely need to work on off hand to get more comfortable. Hard to find a comfortable position seated unsupported too.

15/20

View attachment 791833

That’s a good score. Did you wear a pack and start each string with everything buckled and on?