Enough gun?

[eoperator]

Taken in full context when I said it's just as likely that the .243 is making wound channels just as big...it depends on the bullet. You're right about the ELD, but what about a 180 Partition or TSX?
I've got way too many things going on to be messing with gel, but the testing you've shared has been great. I think we live fairly close to each other, I'd be happy to contribute some deep cut 115 DTACs and other 6mms at 6UM velocities if you're interested.

In hindsight my words were a bit harsh, for that I apologize.

Send me a few 115dtac next fall/winter if you would like to see what they look like in jello.
I did a bunch of nose ring cut bullets last winter, 109hybrid, 140hybrid 150smk 183smk and came to the conclusion that the juice was not worth the squeeze for me, tipped bullets are so easy and reliable.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

If we were talking about this over a fire together it would be a good discussion. The internet is tough because everyone thinks everyone else’s intentions are “negative” or “challenging” them or that there is hostility rooted in the text.

I think in most cases people aren’t yelling at their computer or phone, they just want to discuss things and the internet sucks for tone and “vibe” of the overall conversation.

 

[IDVortex]

If we were talking about this over a fire together it would be a good discussion. The internet is tough because everyone thinks everyone else’s intentions are “negative” or “challenging” them or that there is hostility rooted in the text.

I think in most cases people aren’t yelling at their computer or phone, they just want to discuss things and the internet sucks for tone and “vibe” of the overall conversation.

Yes and no, you still have people even at a fire that even with facts pointed out infront of their face, they won't debate it, but argure their reasoning and nothing else can change it.

 

[schmalzy]

This is hilarious, even as a RSS supporter.

Agreed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Yes and no, you still have people even at a fire that even with facts pointed out infront of their face, they won't debate it, but argure their reasoning and nothing else can change it.

I do know a couple guys like… Yeeeaahhhh. They are the special ones.

 

[Archer86]

If we were talking about this over a fire together it would be a good discussion. The internet is tough because everyone thinks everyone else’s intentions are “negative” or “challenging” them or that there is hostility rooted in the text.

I think in most cases people aren’t yelling at their computer or phone, they just want to discuss things and the internet sucks for tone and “vibe” of the overall conversation.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

View attachment 720210

 

[Darryle]

Yall are missing the whole point to everything.

The point is to have the coolest version of the Rokslide Special rifle

FIFY

 

[Billy Goat]

View attachment 720210

The proper term is Former(s), Former's are former user's of big compensation devices.

 

[Archer86]

The proper term is Former(s), Former's are former user's of big compensation devices.

Formies try to hard to be form they are easily identified. Maybe I will call them formies the followers anything he says they will repeat like parrots

 

[Shō[t]gun]

 

[Archer86]

 

[omicron1792]

Agreed, but it does get annoying when their “personal opinion” is just regurgitated garbage from gun writers who would lose their job if they stated half a company’s gun/ammunition sales are unnecessary. I don’t know who came up with the original ft/lb threshold but it’s outdated and irrelevant to apply across a variety of bullet designs. It’s an easy trap to look at the selection of cartridges small to large and line those up mentally to game animals small to large (which is what the OP did). It doesn’t take much medical or anatomical knowledge to disprove that requirement pretty quickly. The OP talked about insurance with larger cartridges but did not show a single reason or scenario that backs up the opinion. I enjoy discussing honest opinions when they actually have a reason to believe it besides “because I read it on the toilet”.

not attacking your comment Jason, just highlighting the fact that some people come on here to stand up on their stack of magazines to preach what they think is knowledge to folks actually having an honest conversation.

I’m a convert but I do have a question.

What argument could someone bring about larger calibers that you would agree with?

It seems that the 223 people have a list, a very short list, of acceptable statements backing up larger caliber use.

 

[MuleyFever]

 

[Shō[t]gun]

I’m a convert but I do have a question.

What argument could someone bring about larger calibers that you would agree with?

It seems that the 223 people have a list, a very short list, of acceptable statements backing up larger caliber use.

I’m actually not a 223 convert, form and I have gone back and forth over the “minimum effective dose vs ideal wound channel” of the 77 before. I like the idea that the 223 is proven to the point that I can confidently take my AR into a stand and knock down multiple deer when the opportunity arises but I won’t lug it around the hills because I already have multiple lighter bolt actions for that job. If Frank Glaser and PO Ackley both said that the 220 swift was the best killing tool they’d ever used, I’m gonna pay attention. I have no problem with larger cartridges, they kill great when used correctly like everything else. Hell, I’ve been in the situation the last few years where I’m forced to use a slug gun for my deer area and I hunt with a muzzy in CO. I can’t wait to go back to my 6.5 and actually enjoy shooting in the field again.
Nobody has to make an argument for the effectiveness of larger cartridges, it’s the downplaying of anything less than their standard that is obnoxious.

 

[roadrunner]

Energy does not kill, energy transfer kills. Energy transfer is driven by the projectile, this is why an arrow can kill,

Energy transfer to vital organs will kill more efficiently than energy transfer to the entire organism (why 120,000ish ft-lbs of a vehicle going 35 mph is not instantly lethal in all cases, of course that energy transfer is quite a bit more complicated than just the KE number as well).

Edit: Last point, it is KE, not energy. Energy covers a significantly broader range to include momentum, temperature, gravity, magnetism, Etc. Energy transfer applies to all of these.

 

[PathFinder]

In hindsight my words were a bit harsh, for that I apologize.

Send me a few 115dtac next fall/winter if you would like to see what they look like in jello.
I did a bunch of nose ring cut bullets last winter, 109hybrid, 140hybrid 150smk 183smk and came to the conclusion that the juice was not worth the squeeze for me, tipped bullets are so easy and reliable.

No worries man. What you said was correct, and you were coming from a position of experience.

Will do! I've got a bunch of standard and deep cut ones, it would be great to see the difference side by side.
That's awesome, I'm glad you tested those. Are they on your testing thread? I thought really seriously about buying the tool to expand to more options but never did.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Strong Salacious B. Crumb vibes here.

 

[omicron1792]

These arguments always seem to morph over time.
I think the original, and valid, argument was that 223 with great bullet is sufficient to kill all North American game. I think that had been proven, and I believe.

The new argument, which I don’t believe as much, is that small calibers are superior to larger ones and you shouldn’t use the larger ones. I’m not sure anyone is saying that aloud yet, but it is definitely trending in that direction.

 

[ElPollo]

These arguments always seem to morph over time.
I think the original, and valid, argument was that 223 with great bullet is sufficient to kill all North American game. I think that had been proven, and I believe.

The new argument, which I don’t believe as much, is that small calibers are superior to larger ones and you shouldn’t use the larger ones. I’m not sure anyone is saying that aloud yet, but it is definitely trending in that direction.

I’ve not really seen this new argument you are talking about. I have seen people recommend that kids, recoil sensitive people, and new shooters avoid larger cartridges. I’ve also seen people ask what caliber they should get and seen people respond that smaller calibers will recoil less, be easier to shoot accurately, and be more than adequate to kill game reliably. All of that is true and none of it is saying that larger cartridges are not effective.