Elk .243 or 25-06

[260madman]

??? energy on paper ???

Man, I've put it out there already... read it or not. Argue more if you like. I've made the points I've made and again... if you want to take a 223 to shoot your elk, go ahead.

When the bull steps out at 600 yards, and your 223 is getting "dailed up" on your $1200 scope, I'll be next to you with my 260 and my Weaver... smiling.

Tell me more about not dialing your Weaver on a 260 for a 600 yard shot.

 

[Zappaman]

What is forcing anyone to shoot 600 yards? You can't stalk an elk? Pretty rare bird when you cant find a way to shave yardage...at least everywhere I've hunted elk.

Again... I haven't shoot ALL my elk at 600... but I shot some (and many do). But darn... on my hunts where I did make those kills I JUST didn't have my 223 with me at the time

 

[sndmn11]

??? energy on paper ???

Man, I've put it out there already... read it or not. Argue more if you like. I've made the points I've made and again... if you want to take a 223 to shoot your elk, go ahead.

Yes, you have mentioned "energy", and referenced charts. I put up five charts. I am asking how those numbers translate into making things die?

 

[sndmn11]

Tell me more about not dialing your Weaver on a 260 for a 600 yard shot.

MPBR duh

 

[Zappaman]

Tell me more about not dialing your Weaver on a 260 for a 600 yard shot.

Hold over... we old ranch kids learned it on the ranch.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

None... as we know. But the flatter shooting gun (than a 223) is "easier" to put on target (given gun and gear) at 450.

Hey, it you want to take your $5000 tag with a 223... go ahead. If that's your plan I hope your gear keeps up with the longer ranges

Quite frankly you have talked a lot without really saying anything. What larger caliber are you using that makes it easier to put on target at 450 without dialing? All of my previous questions are still waiting to be answered.

Esse quam videri

 

[Zappaman]

Yes, you have mentioned "energy", and referenced charts. I put up five charts. I am asking how those numbers translate into making things die?

Wow... charts now - impressive!

 

[Zappaman]

Quite frankly you have talked a lot without really saying anything. What larger caliber are you using that makes it easier to put on target at 450 without dialing? All of my previous questions are still waiting to be answered.

Esse quam videri

Something larger than a 223...

 

[sndmn11]

If you look at ballistics and energy... range matters as does the ability to shoot (whatever bullet) AT THAT RANGE (according to every shooting manual printed that I've seen, and backed up by the industry also).

Wow... charts now - impressive!

Yes, you said to look at ballistics and energy, I looked. What am I looking for that will tell me how well of a killer I am looking at? The new elk hunters will benefit.

 

[260madman]

Hold over... we old ranch kids learned it on the ranch.

You’re being vague. Spill your guts.

 

[Zappaman]

Yes, you said to look at ballistics and energy, I looked. What am I looking for that will tell me how well of a killer I am looking at? The new elk hunters will benefit.

After reading ALL of this... I AM SURE they will!

 

[sndmn11]

After reading ALL of this... I AM SURE they will!

I don't understand how that answers the question. Do you have an answer as to how "if" I look at ballistics and energy...?

 

[BuzzH]

Hold over... we old ranch kids learned it on the ranch.

You using a rangefinder or using your ranch skills for determining range too?

 

[Zappaman]

You’re being vague. Spill your guts.

Your not reading what I wrote... all but vague. The "guts" are spilled... I've explained why I'd not use a 223 to shoot an elk- especially out past 450 (the yardage some of the 223 guys say they are killing elk- so using what they said here BTW.

Like I said, IF you want to shoot your 223 at 450 yards- that's your prerogative and I won't stoop to any posts here to discredit you. I WILL disagree with you based on what I have already CLEARLY outlined.

Here it is again so you don't have to go back and read...

-- I elk hunt with ONE gun (not two). I require THAT ELK GUN to be able to make ANY shot (dialed or not) with the "energy" (yes, I agree with the industry here) needed to cleanly kill WHILE keeping a good trajectory (got more charts?) where I'm not hitting the elk at the END of it's ("closer" to PBR) flight (therefore need to dial "more often if you will")

That about sums it up... questions?

 

[Zappaman]

You using a rangefinder or using your ranch skills for determining range too?

When I shot my first 600 yard elk range finders weren't around much But the 7mm RM had the energy so when I hit the elk... if died. Again... I didn't have my 223 that day

 

[sndmn11]

You using a rangefinder or using your ranch skills for determining range too?

Dowsing rods.

In case anyone cares about the prior charts: 224valkyrie, 30-30win, 350legend, 45-70,

-- I elk hunt with ONE gun (not two). I require THAT ELK GUN to be able to make ANY shot (dialed or not) with the "energy" (yes, I agree with the industry here) needed to cleanly kill

That about sums it up... questions?

Yes, I have a question. What does energy have to do with killing? What is the amount needed?

 

[BuzzH]

When I shot my first 600 yard elk range finders weren't around much But the 7mm RM had the energy so when I hit the elk... if died. Again... I didn't have my 223 that day

How did you know it was 600 yards?

How much did you hold over?

Why is my BS meter starting to red-line?

 

[260madman]

Your not reading what I wrote... all but vague. The "guts" are spilled... I've explained why I'd not use a 223 to shoot an elk- especially out past 450 (the yardage some of the 223 guys say they are killing elk- so using what they said here BTW.

Like I said, IF you want to shoot your 223 at 450 yards- that's your prerogative and I won't stoop to any posts here to discredit you. I WILL disagree with you based on what I have already CLEARLY outlined.

Here it is again so you don't have to go back and read...

-- I elk hunt with ONE gun (not two). I require THAT ELK GUN to be able to make ANY shot (dialed or not) with the "energy" (yes, I agree with the industry here) needed to cleanly kill WHILE keeping a good trajectory (got more charts?) where I'm not hitting the elk at the END of it's ("closer" to PBR) flight (therefore need to dial "more often if you will")

That about sums it up... questions?

If youre using the holdover method at 600 yards you’d be 22” low at 600 yards with a 500 yard zero. That requires you to be about 10” high at 100 yards. So are you dialing or not? Says up above need to dial more often.

 

[Zappaman]

Dowsing rods.

In case anyone cares about the prior charts: 224valkyrie, 30-30win, 350legend, 45-70,

Yes, I have a question. What does energy have to do with killing? What is the amount needed?

Enough to get there first!

Again... if you want to "lob" your bullets at your elk with your 223, and have the ability and gear to do it... go right ahead! If you can make that hit and dope the wind... good for you!

I have never said these calibers (any of them) can't kill, I'm saying they have range limits for the average hunter with average gear... simple as that. My opinion here is based on the REALITY of my observations over lots of years hunting "out in west Texas and NM-- where those ranches I grew up on are).

I took many a banker out hunting with their 300 Win mags and it was often not a good experience so I very much agree (with all of you I think), that the gun does not make the hunter. But I also know I need enough gun (and energy at range) to to the job. The 223 can do it at shorter range (without doubt- I read the 223 post and all those shots killed well- NOT arguing that). But not out to the range MANY (including myself) shoot elk.

I can't make it more simple... wish I could and I tried. Don't agree... that's cool with me. Want to "close" the distance... go ahead- hunt the way YOU want to (with only limited 223 range). I'll take a higher caliber to my elk hunt for the reasons I've already posted. And plenty of us shoot past 450 yards (and wouldn't shoot that far with a 223 because quite honestly... we don't want or need to-- even if it can be done.

 

[Zappaman]

How did you know it was 600 yards?

How much did you hold over?

Why is my BS meter starting to red-line?

Because you probably were not raised on sheep ranches with coyotes to kill...