Elk .243 or 25-06

[35WhelenAI]

Form, appreciate what you have shared and accomplished, you have experience and as I've said before, pics or it didn't happen. The combinations you share work well in the situations you put them to use. I can keep pushing my point and you'll continue with the reality that you have experienced as well.

Cheers to you, appreciate the ability to have debate and hopefully be welcome around each other's campfire.

 

[Formidilosus]

Cheers to you, appreciate the ability to have debate and hopefully be welcome around each other's campfire.

I do appreciate the discussion.

 

[MTWop]

I do appreciate the discussion.

It’s no fun arguing with people who share the same opinion. Lots of good discussion to think about. Must be February

 

[35WhelenAI]

My opinion is we all agree happiness is a warm gut pile.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

I’m sure they were most likely not shooting smaller calibers. The Eastman’s are some fairly successful & knowledgeable hunters. Very experienced elk hunters. So yes they probably were using heavier calibers.

"I'm sure they were most likely" is a strange thing to say; you're not sure of anything, just say you don't know.

And I can think of at least two instances where Guy himself was shooting a 270 WSM in thick grizz country. I don't know many people that would call that a heavy caliber. Linked videos below; in each he says what cartridge he's using.

 

[dcroxby]

You could kill an elk with a .22 with proper shot placement. That’s not really the point. Things do not always go as planned and margin of error is what matters. There is no margin for error with a .243 and an 80 grain bullet.

 

[Formidilosus]

You could kill an elk with a .22 with proper shot placement. That’s not really the point. Things do not always go as planned and margin of error is what matters. There is no margin for error with a .243 and an 80 grain bullet.

Do you know this from personal experience? And who is talking about an 80gr bullet?

 

[Zappaman]

This post has talked about EVERY bullet

Lots of personal experience, most valid... yet VERY different and often confusing and confounding to BOTH "sides" on this issue. Despite amazing and valid arguments from every corner, there is no consensus (*and there never will be).

If it's legal, the buck stops there... despite what I think of shooting elk at a million miles away- with a pellet gun, or 10 ft away with a 50 cal. I have my opinion, you have yours. That's living in a free society and I'm happy to.

Where I CAN make a difference is practicing MY opinion on this topic... and no longer posting here (I have learned the last week on this post... it'll never end). All I can do is my level best to make whatever kill I decide to pursue-- count... using MY (best) expertise I personally posess in doing it. I really don't care how you do it (or justify it), as long as you make the kill after "talking the talk"

In my case, I chose neither a 223 OR larger magnum calibers for elk (or deer). That is my choice based on shooting my own game over the many thankful years I have. You can do it your way though... I do not care if it's not my way-- just again that you get the job done (under ALL variables you come up against in YOUR hunt).

Those MANY "variables" (based on my experience WITH said variables) leads me to my choice of an elk round I'd use for THE elk hunting I do: longer range and in wind, where I choose not to shot smaller bores for reasons I've already given MY opinion on based on MY hunting experiences (*not internet "upmanship").

Good luck to all who use whatever legal arm they wish too. Your choice... It's still a free country!

See ya' next fall!

 

[Dobermann]

Form, appreciate what you have shared and accomplished, you have experience and as I've said before, pics or it didn't happen. The combinations you share work well in the situations you put them to use. I can keep pushing my point and you'll continue with the reality that you have experienced as well.

Cheers to you, appreciate the ability to have debate and hopefully be welcome around each other's campfire.

And this, gentlemen, is what the 'Slide is all about. Bravo.

 

[Indian Summer]

You’re only off by 500fps. Close enough when holding over I guess. Make sure to lick your finger and hold it up for wind direction and speed.

Schmitt is deep in here. I’m out. I’ll tard joust but outright lies is a bit much.

You don’t know barrel length. Also… you’re looking at those numbers on paper again. I’m talking about real life. You know…. Actual results through a chrony. That number works in ballistics programs too to give me my MOAs all the way to 1000 yards.

Getting kinda desperate aren’t you thinking you can just dig up some online data and call me a liar. You know a guy is getting irritated and desperate when he resorts to personal insults. The saying holds true… thieves keep their doors locks up and liars never believe anyone else.

I knew you’d dig up the numbers so if I was a liar I’d have given you a BS answer when it comes to my reload data. Next!!!

 

[Indian Summer]

What harm comes when the "masses" read they just need a .30cal or something with a magnum primer in it and "the energy" means they only must strike flesh?.

Nobody said that. You guys are getting damn childish now twisting words. You’re starting to embarrass yourselves.

The fact is bigger heavier and faster equals more damage. Period. The fact is marginal shots happen. More damage helps when a bullet doesn’t hit vitals. How can anyone debate this?

There comes a point where you have to draw the line. Your choice of weapon barely makes it over that line. Why the hell would you try to sway new elk hunters into using a bare minimum round like that. So you pea shooter dudes tell me then… what is too small? What caliber is it that you’d say could probably maybe be effective but doesn’t quite make the cut? Answer please….

These off season threads are a hoot. But the post season ones aren’t so funny. The ones that say…. The shot looked perfect. We trailed him for about 3/4 of a mile then lost blood. I hope you new hunters are wise enough to see through the numbers crap and realize that big heavy game and small light bullets are not a good idea.

 

[Indian Summer]

Go watch the Eastman’s video with 30 elk kills. A lot of non reaction to larger caliber bullets than 6mm and .257. Take note of poor shot placement and shitty follow up shots, animals lost in recoil, poor bolt manipulation... I was having kittens watching it.

@wannakillabigbull

I wasn’t the one who said the Eastman’s were shooting large calibers. That was 260madman. I simply gave you guys the benefit of the doubt and said you’re probably right because they know enough to use those guns. If you’re going to use the he said she said you better get it right.

 

[Indian Summer]

"And I can think of at least two instances where Guy himself was shooting a 270 WSM in thick grizz country. I don't know many people that would call that a heavy caliber. Linked videos below; in each he says what cartridge he's using.

And your point? If this thread had asked if a .270 was adequate for elk my answer would be yes. This thread would have been short lived because I don’t think many if any would disagree with that.

If a guy is elk hunting grizzly country he doesn’t ask himself what’s the best gun for a charging grizzly. If he’s really concerned about them and fearing for his life he takes an appropriate side arm. I guaranfrickintee you it won’t be a .243

Again…. and again, my suggestion is an adequate gun somewhere in the middle and a .270 is a good one to consider. It might not be considered heavy but it’s not a pea shooter. A pea is a pea. You can fill it with lead and coat it in copper but it’s still a pea.

 

[Indian Summer]

This is like those conversations where guys say these modern SUVs are great for towing. The power is unreal. Why should I buy a big gas sucking pickup truck when my grocery getter does the job just fine?

The next guy says no man you need a real truck if you want the right tool for the job.

SUV guy says I don’t need no stinkin’ F450 Super Duty Power Stroke diesel! Those guys have small penises that’s why they buy those trucks.

Truck guy says I never said that calm down junior. I just said if you want to play it safe and be ready for steep downhills and quick stops you might consider a half ton or better yet a basic 3/4 ton designed to handle the job.

SUV guy says…. Nope I do it all the time and so does my neighbor. SEE… here’s a picture to prove it!

Lol ok enjoy your good gas mileage.

 

[KurtR]

Nobody said that. You guys are getting damn childish now twisting words. You’re starting to embarrass yourselves.

The fact is bigger heavier and faster equals more damage. Period. The fact is marginal shots happen. More damage helps when a bullet doesn’t hit vitals. How can anyone debate this?

There comes a point where you have to draw the line. Your choice of weapon barely makes it over that line. Why the hell would you try to sway new elk hunters into using a bare minimum round like that. So you pea shooter dudes tell me then… what is too small? What caliber is it that you’d say could probably maybe be effective but doesn’t quite make the cut? Answer please….

These off season threads are a hoot. But the post season ones aren’t so funny. The ones that say…. The shot looked perfect. We trailed him for about 3/4 of a mile then lost blood. I hope you new hunters are wise enough to see through the numbers crap and realize that big heavy game and small light bullets are not a good idea.

That’s the problem what you are saying as fact isn’t . It has been shown by both pictures and terminal ballistics reports that the bigger bullet does not automatically equate to bigger would channels.

 

[Jbehredt]

You could kill an elk with a .22 with proper shot placement. That’s not really the point. Things do not always go as planned and margin of error is what matters. There is no margin for error with a .243 and an 80 grain bullet.

Too much experience around here for your hyperbole to be effective.

 

[sndmn11]

What caliber is it that you’d say could probably maybe be effective but doesn’t quite make the cut? Answer please….

These off season threads are a hoot. But the post season ones aren’t so funny. The ones that say…. The shot looked perfect. We trailed him for about 3/4 of a mile then lost blood. I hope you new hunters are wise enough to see through the numbers crap and realize that big heavy game and small light bullets are not a good idea.

Caliber is meaningless. I have asked you many times if .300bo and 300rum are the same. They are equal caliber.

Within this thread you have provided many personal examples of what you are highlighting as a post season thread. You have a lot of wounded animal stories.

What you are starting as facts are not. "Energy" is a fallicy in killing. I've already asked of you if a 208LRX OR 208Amax out of my 300bo would be a better killer, that's two questions you have not answered.

A smart guide would be asking his clients what bullet he is sending and what velocity he needs at impact. An even smarter guide would be looking at the evidence found by all in terminal performance of their bullets, and how that applies to killing.

 

[Jimbee]

Every elk I have killed has been on public land. I used a 6mm this year. A 6.5 for the prior three. Next year it’ll be a 6mm or a 22 centerfire. However I am willing to kill elk quite a bit farther than 500 yards. If I were only shooting to 500, it would be a 223 with 77gr TMK’s.

I have yet to see, kill, or witness these bullet proof, so hard to kill bulls. If anything, the cows have on average taken longer to fall over than bulls. My experience with elk is the same as it is for deer, antelope, bear, and moose- shoot them in the front half with bullets that create large wounds, regardless of caliber, and they die.

Off topic, but if you were going to rebarrel a tikka to a 6mm, what cartridge, twist rate, bullet and vendor would you go with? (20 inch, for hunting and I reload) I appreciate any advice.

 

[MTWop]

Caliber is meaningless. I have asked you many times if .300bo and 300rum are the same. They are equal caliber.

Within this thread you have provided many personal examples of what you are highlighting as a post season thread. You have a lot of wounded animal stories.

What you are starting as facts are not. "Energy" is a fallicy in killing. I've already asked of you if a 208LRX OR 208Amax out of my 300bo would be a better killer, that's two questions you have not answered.

A smart guide would be asking his clients what bullet he is sending and what velocity he needs at impact. An even smarter guide would be looking at the evidence found by all in terminal performance of their bullets, and how that applies to killing.

This is a valid point that different bullets require different minimal velocities to work properly. However, it’s also true that the kinetic energy has relevance. I wouldn’t consider this information a “fallacy” as it directly applies to ballistics and is a well acccepted term when discussing them. The kinetic energy formula defines the relationship between the mass of an object and its velocity. The kinetic energy equation is as follows: KE = 0.5 * m * v², where: m - mass, v - velocity.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

@wannakillabigbull

I wasn’t the one who said the Eastman’s were shooting large calibers. That was 260madman. I simply gave you guys the benefit of the doubt and said you’re probably right because they know enough to use those guns. If you’re going to use the he said she said you better get it right.

I’m aware that 260 said it first, but I replied to you based on where you took it from there. Your logic that their experience means they’re using heavier calibers seems pretty flawed to me. This thread seems to point to the fact that quite a lot of the more experienced hunters are using lighter calibers, and anecdotally I can’t say I disagree that it’s true. Not saying I fall into that camp, but experience doesn’t equal heavier calibers.