E Bikes, the new motorized access scourge?

[TheTone]

Backou ebikes will even sell you a sticker to put on your motor that says 750 watt when its actually putting out almost double that.

Seriously? What crap

It’s clear the Ebike industry is pumping a lot of money into hunters, advertising and I’m sure lobbying. It’s no different than what the crossbow manufacturers have done to get them allowed in archery seasons

 

[CorbLand]

I know nothing with wheels can be in wilderness areas. But do the regs specifically call out no game carts on other FS lands or does it specifically call out no bikes.

It would state that the trail is open to mechanized forms of transportation. I am not aware of anywhere you would be allowed to take a game cart but not a bike and vise versa.

The Wilderness Act states nothing about wheels, it states that there is no mechanized form of transportation allowed.

You can ride horses in Wilderness areas because it specifically states no mechanized or motorized forms of travel. Horses are neither of those. You can ride a pedal bike past FS service road gates because they (generally) state no unauthorized motorized access beyond that point.

This is why trying to classify each individual mode of transportation wont work. There are wheels with IC motors, wheels with electric motors, wheels with pedals, wheels that you push, wheels that you pull...the list can go on, then you can take wheels out and add tracks.

You can simplify pretty much everything down to, mechanized vs nonmechanized and motorized vs nonmotorized.

 

[hibernation]

Tradition and cultural acceptance has a lot to do with these rules too. If there's a user group with a long history of doing something, it's going to be real hard to regulate that once it's an entrenched practice. For anyone comparing e-bikes to compound bows vs trad, that ship sailed.

I really hope the agencies get ahead of this the same way most western states got ahead of drone use. I hate to imagine ebikes becoming the norm on hiking trails, just hordes of guys zipping around between drainages and cruising up from every main access point. Once enough people start, it'll feel like you have to get one just to stand a chance anymore - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Tag numbers aren't getting any higher in most places, competition is getting stiffer, and the animals have plenty of pressure from all sides. Ebikes (on anything other than existing motorized roads) just seem to be making the problem worse, at least to me. But then again, I think more roads should be decommissioned in general to take some pressure off the herds.

 

[cnelk]

These are the designated motorized trails I look for to use my ebike.

Eliminating atvs is huge.

 

[Gutshot007]

Tough call. In hunting where does technology for "ease" of hunt/kill end ? Why not drones ? Why not electric ford raptor ? Not sure of the answer in our society. Personally I like hiking in . It's hard to compete with motors and wheels when your a caveman.

 

[txhunter581]

Buddy of mine is a ranger in a popular national park and when he finds any bike in the back country, he confiscates the front wheel. Receipt says feel free to pick it up at the office in a few days

Wow, he must have a strong back and backpack. I have an ebike that I ride only on legal trails, but a single wheel weighs a TON! Almost as much as a motorcycle wheel

 

[txhunter581]

These are the designated motorized trails I look for to use my ebike.

Eliminating atvs is huge.


View attachment 463485

The problem is those that ride on trails where it is not legal tear down those signs

 

[jayhawk]

well dang I gotta go grab the popcorn for this one

 

[txhunter581]

It would state that the trail is open to mechanized forms of transportation. I am not aware of anywhere you would be allowed to take a game cart but not a bike and vise versa.

The Wilderness Act states nothing about wheels, it states that there is no mechanized form of transportation allowed.

You can ride horses in Wilderness areas because it specifically states no mechanized or motorized forms of travel. Horses are neither of those. You can ride a pedal bike past FS service road gates because they (generally) state no unauthorized motorized access beyond that point.

This is why trying to classify each individual mode of transportation wont work. There are wheels with IC motors, wheels with electric motors, wheels with pedals, wheels that you push, wheels that you pull...the list can go on, then you can take wheels out and add tracks.

You can simplify pretty much everything down to, mechanized vs nonmechanized and motorized vs nonmotorized.

It is not legal to use anything with wheels in a wilderness area, with the exception of wheelchairs.

43 CFR § 6302.20 - What is prohibited in wilderness?

www.law.cornell.edu

Anything with wheels would certainly fall into “mechanical transport”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/definit...:F:part:6300:Subpart:6302:Subjgrp:227:6302.20

 

[CorbLand]

It is not legal to use anything with wheels in a wilderness area.

Yes, I understand this. Wheels are considered a form of mechanized transportation.

In the context of this thread, it is important to understand that its not the wheel, it is what the wheel is deemed, that is important.

The response you quoted, will make more sense if you read all of my responses to this thread.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

It is not legal to use anything with wheels in a wilderness area, with the exception of wheelchairs.

43 CFR § 6302.20 - What is prohibited in wilderness?

www.law.cornell.edu

Anything with wheels would certainly fall into “mechanical transport”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/definit...:F:part:6300:Subpart:6302:Subjgrp:227:6302.20

Honest question. How does that work with the ADA?

 

[txhunter581]

Sorry. I reread your post and now I understand what you were saying. Posted before brain fully engaged.

 

[txhunter581]

Honest question. How does that work with the ADA?

Other than allowing wheelchairs, it doesn’t. I assume the regs for access don’t apply

 

[wesfromky]

Honest question. How does that work with the ADA?

I believe there is an exception for wheel chairs, but they are restricted to just the standard "indoor" types. Which means, you couldn't really use them in most wilderness terrain.

"drawing the line behind me" - I bought an ebike recently to help with mobility that I lost due to some health issues. I agree that it is not a bike at all, but I also feel like they might have a place to help hunters with documented disability, much like a crossbow exemption.


According to Section 508 (c) of the American with Disabilities Act, Title V,

(1) In general. - Congress reaffirms that nothing in the Wilderness Act [16 U.S.C. 1131 et seq.] is to be construed as prohibiting the use of a wheelchair in a wilderness area by an individual whose disability requires use of a wheelchair, and consistent with the Wilderness Act no agency is required to provide any form of special treatment or accommodation, or to construct any facilities or modify any conditions of lands within a wilderness area in order to facilitate such use.
(2) Definition. - For purposes of paragraph (1), the term "wheelchair" means a device designed solely for use by a mobility-impaired person for locomotion, that is suitable for use in an indoor pedestrian area.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Should we shut down all trails and roads to all users? They give everyone an unfair advantage.

 

[CorbLand]

Should we shut down all trails and roads to all users? They give everyone an unfair advantage.

The system that we currently have seems to be pretty reasonable. There are areas where different modes of transportation are allowed and not.

Some places motorized access is allowed, some places it isn't. Some place allow for mechanized transportation and some places don't. Honestly, it has worked pretty well.

 

[S.Clancy]

Wow, he must have a strong back and backpack. I have an ebike that I ride only on legal trails, but a single wheel weighs a TON! Almost as much as a motorcycle wheel

In college working for the FS we packed out an entire motorcycle from a wilderness area. I cant remember, but I think it was 100-200cc. Took the engine off the frame, had frame packs. One guy packed the motor, one guy packed the frame. It was awful.

 

[RS_Non-Res]

In college working for the FS we packed out an entire motorcycle from a wilderness area. I cant remember, but I think it was 100-200cc. Took the engine off the frame, had frame packs. One guy packed the motor, one guy packed the frame. It was awful.

Wow, he must have a strong back and backpack. I have an ebike that I ride only on legal trails, but a single wheel weighs a TON! Almost as much as a motorcycle wheel

Regular mountain bike wheels are lighter, but some rangers are young and strong. The whole idea was to let the perp carry the rest of their stuff. Then they get to choose whether getting the wheel back was worth the fine.

 

[UpTop]

The trails either need to be designated foot traffic only or allow for multiple use types. This whole crap about the “heritage” of horses or the “commitment” it takes to have them is just one user group trying to justify their fair/unfair advantage, however you choose to feel about it. I vote for FOOT traffic only. Then we can really separate who’s willing to do what it takes to get back there. The numbers would plummet

 

[Ebikerules]

Mechanized is just another way of saying motorized. The Wilderness act allows for bicycles.

Definition: motor vehicle from 18 USC § 31(a)(6) | LII / Legal Information Institute

It would state that the trail is open to mechanized forms of transportation. I am not aware of anywhere you would be allowed to take a game cart but not a bike and vise versa.

The Wilderness Act states nothing about wheels, it states that there is no mechanized form of transportation allowed.

You can ride horses in Wilderness areas because it specifically states no mechanized or motorized forms of travel. Horses are neither of those. You can ride a pedal bike past FS service road gates because they (generally) state no unauthorized motorized access beyond that point.

This is why trying to classify each individual mode of transportation wont work. There are wheels with IC motors, wheels with electric motors, wheels with pedals, wheels that you push, wheels that you pull...the list can go on, then you can take wheels out and add tracks.

You can simplify pretty much everything down to, mechanized vs nonmechanized and motorized vs nonmotorized.