E Bikes, the new motorized access scourge?

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I took a friend elk hunting in a "non motorized" area opening day of the Idaho rifle season.
We were sweating up a long grade on mountain bikes in the dark when suddenly a couple fat boys from the Midwest came cruising past us on 1000 watt $7000
E bikes.
They were nice guys and we chatted a few minutes, apparently many areas closed to motorized access have carve outs for e bikes..
These dudes were in terrible shape yet here they were cruising up the mountain to get miles deep into elk habitat.

We ended up running smack into the middle of 6 groups of E bike hunters all along the same ridge system that we'd biked a hard hour to get into.
I was pretty shocked by the tech of those things, I'm talking tricked out with all sorts of gadgets including rifle scabbards.

Are we basically regulating ATV access, and allowing Ebikes to take guys further into even more un-accessible terrain?
I see where this is going and I don't like the outlook for big game security.

 

[dreamingbig]

I would be okay banning all wheels and all motors on all trails all year long for all user groups on national forest lands. Yep, I said it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ferrulewax]

Ebike=motorized.

 

[idahodave]

If you were on USFS lands on a non-motorized trail...then they weren't actually open to e-bikes. If you were on BLM lands, then yeah they were likely legal. The USFS is largely the last holdout as it pertains to classifying e-bikes as "motorized". The BLM, NPS, and most city/county/state lands allow for them within certain "classifications"...basically Type 1, Type 2 and Type 3 as they are commonly referred to across the country.

The management of the classifications and associated restrictions is largely a joke, as enforcement is nearly impossible. A USFS LEO has essentially zero chance of looking at an e-bike and definitively declaring what "type" it is simply based on appearance. That water is getting muddier by the day with the Chinese segment growing cheaper by the day. Think flat-screen TVs and you'll get a sense of where this is headed. They will dominate the market in the next 10 years and become the norm.

My educated guess is the USFS will cave soon enough too. They already have a policy in place that allow for consideration of e-bikes on non-motorized trails on a route-by-route basis if they go through a formal NEPA process. That bureaucratic morass is the only thing keeping most Forest Supervisors/District Rangers from doing so. It's only a matter of time before they cave though. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

Dave

p.s. I'm not trying to be an azzhole here, but rather pointing out a phenomenon I regularly see. If "big game security" was the goal, we wouldn't allow standard mountain bikes (or even horses) to be used in hunting. After all, they offer an advantage over hiking...no? People usually draw a line right behind where they are standing on a given issue, and this one is no different. The OP is okay with the advantage his "regular" mountain bike has over a hiker,...but thinks e-bikes should be restricted in the name of "big game security" because they tip the scales away from his favor. I'm guilty of doing the same thing btw...I just like to point this out every time these discussions come up.

 

[Scoot]

They have a damn motor-- shouldn't be allowed in non-motorized areas. This issue is a dumb as a guy calling himself a cat and people arguing that means he's a cat. We live in an Fd up world...

 

[Justin Crossley]

p.s. I'm not trying to be an azzhole here, but rather pointing out a phenomenon I regularly see. If "big game security" was the goal, we wouldn't allow standard mountain bikes (or even horses) to be used in hunting. After all, they offer an advantage over hiking...no? People usually draw a line right behind where they are standing on a given issue, and this one is no different. The OP is okay with the advantage his "regular" mountain bike has over a hiker,...but thinks e-bikes should be restricted in the name of "big game security" because they tip the scales away from his favor. I'm guilty of doing the same thing btw...I just like to point this out every time these discussions come up.

I think this is spot on.

Edit to add: I don't have an opinion on the whole E-bike thing one way or the other. It makes no difference to me if people ride them where regular bikes are allowed. If they are banned, that makes no difference to me either.

 

[veganhunter]

The OP is okay with the advantage his "regular" mountain bike has over a hiker,...but thinks e-bikes should be restricted

I get your point but, for me, the distinction is that a regular mountain bike is powered by a human being and an e-bike is mostly powered by a giant battery and motor.

 

[idelkslayer]

If it is one of the units designated in Idaho's "Motorized Hunting Rule" then they cannot use e-bikes. As far Idaho Fish and Game is concerned an e-bike is a motorized vehicle.

The motorized hunting rule applies regardless of which land management agency controls the land and trail designations.

 

[idahodave]

The OP is okay with the advantage his "regular" mountain bike has over a hiker,...but thinks e-bikes should be restricted

I get your point but, for me, the distinction is that a regular mountain bike is powered by a human being and an e-bike is mostly powered by a giant battery and motor.


"for me"...is the exact phenomenon I'm talking about.

Both an e-bike and a regular mountain bike require physical input (99% of e-bikes anyway). It's how much "return" you get on that input that presumably bothers you. I could make the same argument of regular mountain bikes though. You get a pretty serious mechanical advantage with a "regular" mountain bike, but that doesn't bother you. It's all comes down to personal values. I just like pointing it out so we can have a more honest discussion with ourselves.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I could be wrong, but if they were over 750w, it looks like they are not an exception to the rule for motorized vehicles.

 

[BBob]

The OP is okay with the advantage his "regular" mountain bike has over a hiker,...

Just something to note: It wasn't that long ago "regular" mountain bikers had to lobby to get the carve out from USFS to ride in wilderness areas. They were previously seen as motorized equipment and banned. Edit: I was mistaken and wrong.

 

[TheTone]

Just something to note: It wasn't that long ago "regular" mountain bikers had to lobby to get the carve out from USFS to ride in wilderness areas. They were previously seen as motorized equipment and banned.

I don’t think there is anywhere in a declared wilderness a mtn bike is allowed. It’s not the motor, it’s the mechanics

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I love those guys, same with mountain bikers. They keep pushing animals to me year after year. Thanks gents!

 

[BBob]

I don’t think there is anywhere in a declared wilderness a mtn bike is allowed. It’s not the motor, it’s the mechanics

They are absolutely allowed in a wilderness area here in my backyard. Now if that is a regional or specific district thing or not I don't know that answer. I also don't know if they are restricted to certain trails within that wilderness, that may be the case. Edit: I was wrong and have been corrected

 

[Haro450]

They can make all the laws and regulations in the world. The problem is there is typically very little enforcement. At least that has been my experience. I am not against atvs or ebikes. But when hike my butt of into an area and find them it pisses me off. Called it in and a couple of times but it didnt do any good.

 

[idahodave]

I could be wrong, but if they were over 750w, it looks like they are not an exception to the rule for motorized vehicles.

Your making one of my points.

How does an LEO/CO know how many watts an e-bike is? Very, very few have the wattage displayed. If an LEO has to ask the rider, there isn’t going to be much in the way of enforcement.

 

[idahodave]

They are absolutely allowed in a wilderness area here in my backyard. Now if that is a regional or specific district thing or not I don't know that answer. I also don't know if they are restricted to certain trails within that wilderness, that may be the case.

Can I ask what Wilderness area that is? I ask, because mechanized use of ANY type is specifically excluded in Wilderness areas…with very few exceptions. Most of which are preserved for other “administrative” agencies like Fish and Game.

 

[hibernation]

A lot of hunting publications are just glorified advertisements, and I've been seeing articles for at least the last 5 years about how amazing e-bikes are for getting deep quickly and quietly. Hunting media can't seem to exist unless it's pushing something new to sell (rifles, cartridges, clothing, side-by-sides...).

If someone wants to cruise forest roads on them, go nuts, but I don't want to see them on a trail. They should be regulated the same as any other motorized vehicle, because that's what they are.

 

[z987k]

Your making one of my points.

How does an LEO/CO know how many watts an e-bike is? Very, very few have the wattage displayed. If an LEO has to ask the rider, there isn’t going to be much in the way of enforcement.

You can require it to be displayed on a bike like we do with outboards.

 

[z987k]

They can make all the laws and regulations in the world. The problem is there is typically very little enforcement. At least that has been my experience. I am not against atvs or ebikes. But when hike my butt of into an area and find them it pisses me off. Called it in and a couple of times but it didnt do any good.

You just make an example out of a few people with very harsh penalties. It works pretty well.
A hunting reg violation needs to start at $50k plus all your gear.