“Don’t shoot my dog” etc

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Jan 18, 2015
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Northern Michigan
Well you just described a completely different scenario than the post I responded to. However I don't know any houndsman that cross train their dogs in protection so I guess I still don't see the connection to a well trained hunting dog.

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TheGDog

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Then said "I heard they hunt and have guns in Montana, I get scared just seeing a gun...I don't think I can come and visit you."
I've had the honor of introducing a number of people to shooting at the range over the years. (Like I said, always remember you're ALWAYS a 2A Ambassador all the time! Especially if it's a Female we NEED more Female Shooters in the population! Like Yesterday!)

And I'm always taken back by the tension, fear and trepidation I observe in the n00bs in approaching a handgun just laying there in the stall at the range. Regardless of their age too!

First thing I always hit on with them is how it just sits there... does nothing.... like the inanimate object it is. And if I can I'd much rather have them be able to handle the firearm empty in a setting like my home, before going to the range if it's possible. It's the weirdo fear thing they've initially got going on that you have to break them of. NOBODY functions 100% properly with that sorta panic thing going on.

I get a great deal of satisfaction in knowing I just created another soldier to help in the battle to keep our 2A rights. Cause I have NEVER met anyone that didn't just LOVE guns after being properly introduced to them!
 

Opah

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Jan 30, 2017
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Unless you have lived and hunted in California and had to listen to their BS you couldn't understand how above it all and self righteous these Morality morons feel.
One of the biggest issues is they are now in the Forest Service and CDFW. These are the morons the throw up road blocks and makes you pull your rifles out of their closed locked cases so they can inspect them. Now of course this is a twilight and they back up the road which stops you from getting out by sunrise.
Legal Hunter harassment by the Law, Not all but enough to screw a good hunt up.
 

grfox92

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Man am I glad I live in grizzly country where I don't see ANYBODY out in the woods.

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Joined
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Unless you have lived and hunted in California and had to listen to their BS you couldn't understand how above it all and self righteous these Morality morons feel.
One of the biggest issues is they are now in the Forest Service and CDFW. These are the morons the throw up road blocks and makes you pull your rifles out of their closed locked cases so they can inspect them. Now of course this is a twilight and they back up the road which stops you from getting out by sunrise.
Legal Hunter harassment by the Law, Not all but enough to screw a good hunt up.

Someone makes you pull your gun out so they can inspect it? Wouldn’t that a be a violation of the 4th?


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6.5

FNG
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I do not have too, the rattlesnakes in this area will take care of him for me...lol
 

2ski

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Bozeman
Good for you for doing this, unfortantely its the small majority of hunters thats act like jackasses that somehow end up representing us and makes it worse for everyone. What is also funnny after getting out of the military and moving to Montana my wife had a friend who lives in California that asked us about coming out and visiting. Then said "I heard they hunt and have guns in Montana, I get scared just seeing a gun...I don't think I can come and visit you." I just rolled my eyes and told my wife, "good tell her to stay in California."
Agree with what you said.

To add to your wife's friend, I've seen tiktoks where people are so flabbergasted that Walmart sells guns. And the comments are crazy.

The image that projected outwardly is too much Ted Nugent and "cold dead hands" and not enough showing responsible ownership.
 
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Opah

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Someone makes you pull your gun out so they can inspect it? Wouldn’t that a be a violation of the 4th?


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Law enforcement can demand to inspect your weapons for any reason they can dream up. Next time you are out hunting and a Ranger or fish and game asks to see your weapons tell them No that is a violation of my 4th and see where that gets you
 

Opah

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I would not consider a hound that offered to bite a person a well trained hunting dog. Quite the opposite for my dogs, my kids can handle all of them. If they want to bite a person they're not going to live long.

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So you can be out in the field, some stranger can walk up to your dog / dogs get them by to collar or talk them into a strange truck and drive away with them?
 
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Someone makes you pull your gun out so they can inspect it? Wouldn’t that a be a violation of the 4th?


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F&W code states that if you are in the act of, on your way to, or on your way home, from fishing or hunting, you, your vehicle and possessions are subject to inspection. It is an exception to the 4th because unlike people on people crimes, wildlife crimes seldom have a complainant, animals simply cannot speak up for themselves. For example, the F&W check stations in which all hunters are REQUIRED to pull into while non-hunters simply drive on by.
 
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Law enforcement can demand to inspect your weapons for any reason they can dream up. Next time you are out hunting and a Ranger or fish and game asks to see your weapons tell them No that is a violation of my 4th and see where that gets you
Totally wrong. Read my post above.
 
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Law enforcement can demand to inspect your weapons for any reason they can dream up. Next time you are out hunting and a Ranger or fish and game asks to see your weapons tell them No that is a violation of my 4th and see where that gets you

Yeah, sounds like unlawful search to me.


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Joined
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Yeah, sounds like unlawful search to me.


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Perhaps it does to you, but the courts have upheld it. I don't even want to think about all the poaching that would take place if the law was different. Being checked is a minor inconvenience that only takes a few minutes.
 

Opah

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Thank you Bubble I was under the impression the Law enforcement, Police , ATF, Forest service and Rangers if you were in position of a firearm could demand to inspect it.
 
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Iowa
Perhaps it does to you, but the courts have upheld it. I don't even want to think about all the poaching that would take place if the law was different. Being checked is a minor inconvenience that only takes a few minutes.
It's different when it's in a locked case. It's been a while since I gave up on studying law but last I was aware vehicle searches for any reason still require probable cause or a warrant to open locked containers. If you have a rifle in a locked case any law officer regardless of agency requires probable cause of a crime or a warrant singed by a judge to open that case. Now based on state you may have a duty of some sort to tell them you have weapons in the vehice but that usually only applies to concealed weapons (may god have mercy on whatever BS the state of California has in the books). If you want to make a stand on this I'd encourage discussing it with a local university law professor or a legal professional before you make and bold moves. Usually not worth it unless the squirrel chaser is being an exceptional tyrant that day.

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Joined
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Thank you Bubble I was under the impression the Law enforcement, Police , ATF, Forest service and Rangers if you were in position of a firearm could demand to inspect it.
Nope, only F&W, both state and federal. Other than a possible wildlife crime (where there is generally no complainant) there is no suspicion of a crime in the case of regular law enforcement. Thus the courts have determined that if a person(s) is on the way to, engaging in, or on the way from hunting or fishing, a Warden searching is not unreasonable (remember, the vast majority of wildlife crimes have no reporting party)
 
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It's different when it's in a locked case. It's been a while since I gave up on studying law but last I was aware vehicle searches for any reason still require probable cause or a warrant to open locked containers. If you have a rifle in a locked case any law officer regardless of agency requires probable cause of a crime or a warrant singed by a judge to open that case. Now based on state you may have a duty of some sort to tell them you have weapons in the vehice but that usually only applies to concealed weapons (may god have mercy on whatever BS the state of California has in the books). If you want to make a stand on this I'd encourage discussing it with a local university law professor or a legal professional before you make and bold moves. Usually not worth it unless the squirrel chaser is being an exceptional tyrant that day.

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For general Law Enforcement, yes, you are correct. For F&W if and only if you are traveling to, from or engaging in hunting or fishing No warrant is needed.
 
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For general Law Enforcement, yes, you are correct. For F&W if and only if you are traveling to, from or engaging in hunting or fishing No warrant is needed.
Not saying I don't believe you but I'm having trouble finding where a F&W agent may conduct a warentless search without any probably cause just because you're intending to hunt or fish. If you have a source I'd be interested in it for the chance I end up running into such a stop.


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Squincher

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Midwest
Not saying I don't believe you but I'm having trouble finding where a F&W agent may conduct a warentless search without any probably cause just because you're intending to hunt or fish. If you have a source I'd be interested in it for the chance I end up running into such a stop.


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It seems the USFWS doesn't know they have authority that exceeds that of any other LEO. Odd that so many hunters know it when they don't.
 

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