Defund the Police?

[Cowbell]

If you think these protests are only about police, you are mistaken.

I 100% support good police. I was an officer and my son is now an officer.

That is beside the point. What is the point? The point is systemic racism in this country. If you deny it, you are part of the problem.

Racism is simply a character flaw and a heart problem. It works the same between all races. This is not one-sided. I have actually seen the most racism unfold as a result of blacks disliking Hispanics in my lifetime. It will never go away and there's nothing the government can do to change it. Only God can.

 

[oldskool67]

Yup, and who is more likely to be called on. Ask the black birder in Central Park.

Ask the black dad who takes his daughter on walks through his neighborhood so he doesn't have the cops called on him for "being in the wrong neighborhood."

This is what is meant by "systemic racism." It's the snowball cause-and-effect scenario where people of color are suspected more often by citizens, so the officers are called on them more often, which turns into more contacts and opportunities for bad outcomes because officers are more suspicious and push those contacts harder, which leads to more people of color being arrested and fined, which starts the whole feedback loop up again.

Are there assholes that call the police for nefarious reasons on black people ? Yes sometimes. In large cities where most of the violent crime takes place the people calling the police for help every day overwhelmingly are of the same ethnicity as the suspects. Regardless of what you see on YouTube. Over 700,000 police in the US. Millions of arrests every year, many more millions of contacts with people and approximately 1,000 people killed every year by police . Approximately 95 percent of those killed were armed and / or actively assaulting the officer or another person. One bad shooting / killing is one too many, but this narrative of the police as an entity “ hunting blacks” or engaging in “ genocide of blacks.” Well that’s absolutely ridiculous.

 

[WCB]

Now Minneapolis is asking for the government to help them rebuild. Why rebuild? Without LE it will just burn again

not only that our all wise Governor is tossing around the idea of trying to pass a levy to help rebuild and businesses....???? The mayor of Minneapolis and the Governor let Minneapolis burn...it is 95% their fault and now guess who will get stuck with paying for it?

 

[Ndbowhunter]

That is beside the point. What is the point? The point is systemic racism in this country. If you deny it, you are part of the problem.

Are you willing to be challenged that systemic racism isn’t real?
if not, all good.

 

[Reburn]

If you think these protests are only about police, you are mistaken.

I 100% support good police. I was an officer and my son is now an officer.

That is beside the point. What is the point? The point is systemic racism in this country. If you deny it, you are part of the problem.

Man you just post pages and pages worth on nonsense. If we say there isn't systemic racism we are part of the problem and racist. If we agree we are part of the problem and racist.

So by definition you think people should be treated different and you are racist.

 

[eamyrick]

“ Police are the most visible representatives of the government. They are often the primary targets of discontent. But as several of you have mentioned, much of that discontent is the responsibility of government and society more broadly. We as a society, community, state, country, government, and economy have profoundly failed in a number of critical areas: inequality, racism, poverty, lack of adequate public health, lack of affordable housing, underfunding of public education, and the revolving door of the criminal justice system without any serious effort to facilitate reducing recidivism, just to mention a few.

In the same breath that policy makers decry the problems at APD, they seem silent or ineffective on the bigger picture problems that I believe are at the root of systemic dysfunction. Is local government serious about fundamental change over and above this laser focus on APD? That in my mind is the critical question.”

The above is part of a letter written by a self declared liberal Democrat UT Austin Professor William Kelly. Kelly is against defunding and his perspective, though I don’t completely agree, helped me understand the left’s perspective. Cops seems to be the public’s whipping boy for all of the government’s wrongs these days.

 

[Newtosavage]

“ Police are the most visible representatives of the government. They are often the primary targets of discontent. But as several of you have mentioned, much of that discontent is the responsibility of government and society more broadly. We as a society, community, state, country, government, and economy have profoundly failed in a number of critical areas: inequality, racism, poverty, lack of adequate public health, lack of affordable housing, underfunding of public education, and the revolving door of the criminal justice system without any serious effort to facilitate reducing recidivism, just to mention a few.

In the same breath that policy makers decry the problems at APD, they seem silent or ineffective on the bigger picture problems that I believe are at the root of systemic dysfunction. Is local government serious about fundamental change over and above this laser focus on APD? That in my mind is the critical question.”

The above is part of a letter written by a self declared liberal Democrat UT Austin Professor William Kelly. Kelly is against defunding and his perspective, though I don’t completely agree, helped me understand the left’s perspective. Cops seems to be the public’s whipping boy for all of the government’s wrongs these days.

Cops and public school teachers. Take your pick.

 

[Newtosavage]

Man you just post pages and pages worth on nonsense. If we say there isn't systemic racism we are part of the problem and racist. If we agree we are part of the problem and racist.

So by definition you think people should be treated different and you are racist.

A person can deny there is systemic racism out of ignorance or just blindness to the issue. It doesn't mean they are a bad person or are racist themselves. It just means they lack perspective or experience. I think the majority of whites fall into that category. Good people who are free to go about their daily lives without ever thinking about the issues that people of color have to face all the time. It doesn't mean they are bad people. It just means they are blind to the challenges that others face. Same is true for people with disabilities. How many of us walk down a street and up a flight of stairs and never once think about how someone with a disability might have to do what we take for granted every day? I do it all the time. Doesn't make someone a bad person. It just means there is room for growth and awareness of the issues that others around us face. That's all.

Where someone becomes part of the problem is when those issues, whether they be race-related or disability-related, are made clear to someone and they still act as if they don't exist.

 

[Newtosavage]

Are you willing to be challenged that systemic racism isn’t real?
if not, all good.

There is too much evidence to the contrary.

 

[Newtosavage]

but this narrative of the police as an entity “ hunting blacks” or engaging in “ genocide of blacks.” Well that’s absolutely ridiculous.

Where did you see that narrative? Or are those just words you are putting in my mouth so you have something to disagree with.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

Now Minneapolis is asking for the government to help them rebuild. Why rebuild? Without LE it will just burn again

They are on their own. They elected people their crazy politicians, they pay the price for it....Don't even bother rebuilding before the trial is over. Riots were so successful this time, they will happen again. Minneapolis is lost......

 

[street]

There is too much evidence to the contrary.

In the effort to actually have a dialog - what exactly is systemic racism and what is the tangible evidence that supports your definition of systemic racism? I'm not looking for: "Black person was shot by white cop" as evidence, because it isn't.

Where in the "system" is equality of opportunity disproportionate to a person's race?

 

[*zap*]

spoken as someone who has a history of being concerned about black lives...

Spoken as someone who want equality for all who think the same as he does.

 

[KSP277]

View attachment 188606

Not cool.

 

[16Bore]

In the effort to actually have a dialog - what exactly is systemic racism and what is the tangible evidence that supports your definition of systemic racism? I'm not looking for: "Black person was shot by white cop" as evidence, because it isn't.

Where in the "system" is equality of opportunity disproportionate to a person's race?

Google is your friend and it’s certainly not a one sentence answer. To expect any one person on this forum has that answer is simple asking for trouble.

Cop in Atlanta shot a guy in back and shouldn’t have. A person with impaired judgment cannot be expected to make a reasonable decision.

Fight or flight, it’s a brain function. It’s not a conscious act because the part of the brain that makes logical decisions is turned off and the survival part of the brain is turned on.

No law or policy is going to change that.

 

[Newtosavage]

In the effort to actually have a dialog - what exactly is systemic racism and what is the tangible evidence that supports your definition of systemic racism? I'm not looking for: "Black person was shot by white cop" as evidence, because it isn't.

Where in the "system" is equality of opportunity disproportionate to a person's race?

It's not hard to research this if you want.

Have you ever heard of the practice of "redlining?" If not, look it up.

Look up the difference in the value of a home depending on the racial makeup of the neighborhood where it's located.

There are so many examples, if you're objective and willing to listen.

This is an oversimplification of the issue, but it gets the idea across pretty well.

 

[street]

It's not hard to research this if you want.

Have you ever heard of the practice of "redlining?" If not, look it up.

Look up the difference in the value of a home depending on the racial makeup of the neighborhood where it's located.

There are so many examples, if you're objective and willing to listen.

This is an oversimplification of the issue, but it gets the idea across pretty well.

You seemed to have at least some kind of knowledge on the subject but I guess I was wrong.

None of those examples are causal. Bye

 

[skyler_2010]

Minneapolis City Council President Says That Calling The Police For A Burglary Is Exercising Privilege – Concealed Nation

By Dan Zimmerman via TTAG Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender appeared on CNN this morning to discuss the council’s plan to dismantle the city’s police department in the wake of the George Floyd killing. What, you may ask, will replace the MPD? According to Bender, they will construct...

enews.concealednation.org

 

[16Bore]

You seemed to have at least some kind of knowledge on the subject but I guess I was wrong.

None of those examples are causal. Bye

If you have answers, then share with the rest of us.

 

[Newtosavage]

You seemed to have at least some kind of knowledge on the subject but I guess I was wrong.

None of those examples are causal. Bye

All I can do is lead the horse to water.