Debt and the Hunter

[HNTR918]

Student Loan, Car Loan, and Credit Cards had me in huge debt!

Changed my lifestyle completely!

No clubs, no bars, no restaurants, no coffee shops, no going out to lunch with co workers, no take-out or delivery food, no gas station food, no vacations, no shopping, no cable, cancelled subscriptions, sold motorcycle, sold project/fun/fast car, sold snowboarding gear, sold paintball gear, got a smaller and older apartment, no new furniture, and started shopping at discount grocery stores, etc.

In 4 years, paid off $93,000 in debt.

This fall, I'm spending 43 days in the field between Colorado, New Mexico, & Montana for Elk & Deer.
Going to POW Island for Black Bear this Spring.

It's all about priorities, and learning delayed gratification.

 

[isocyanate]

This fall, I'm spending 43 days in the field between Colorado, New Mexico, & Montana for Elk & Deer.
Going to POW Island for Black Bear this Spring.

It's all about priorities, and learning delayed gratification.

You found the things that truly move the needle for you. I boughts some dumb stuff in my 20s, but now I'm trying to figure out how to take more control of my time. I work in manufacturing (technical/management) and make really good money for the area, but getting more than 10 week-days off consecutively is tough when you support a 24/7 operation. I want to get a few more years experience and try to do some consulting work where if I don't want to work in september......so be it.

Having no kids and a working wife helps a lot....

 

[HNTR918]

You found the things that truly move the needle for you. I boughts some dumb stuff in my 20s, but now I'm trying to figure out how to take more control of my time. I work in manufacturing (technical/management) and make really good money for the area, but getting more than 10 week-days off consecutively is tough when you support a 24/7 operation. I want to get a few more years experience and try to do some consulting work where if I don't want to work in september......so be it.

Having no kids and a working wife helps a lot....

I work in OEM manufacturing as well, and we run 24/7.
My boss used to never allow more than 5 weekdays off in a row.

Then I asked what it would take to get 10.
So I gave him 2X what he asked for.

The next year I asked what it would take to get 15.
So I gave him 2X again!

I gave him 2X of what he asked for this year by July 12th.


I'm married, no kids, and two incomes.
I don't think this would be possible if any of that changed.

 

[Wags]

I'm not there yet, we have 0 debt outside of our mortgage and 2 vehicle payments, which we're proud of. We HAD some CC debt and a line of credit that we used to boost her credit score and get her business expanded. Both are paid off now and it's a huge weight off. We're making double payments on the vehicles and those will be done in the next 18 months.

My parents were not great with money and did nothing to help get me educated or on the right path. I will not repeat that cycle with my kids.

 

[bozeman]

I keep reading, having a 'normal life'...........what is a normal life? Who stated that 2 vehicles and a 2000 sq foot house is a normal life? Is having cable, a gym membership and eating out 2x/week a normal life? Is a $900 cell phone part of a normal life? Too many of us are spoiled and expect too much to be 'normal'........just sayin...

 

[Blackcats06]

For those of you who have great savings and little to no debt maybe even close to not having a mortgage, what do you consider a good individual (or household) income? Let’s say for someone 30-40 years old that should be into some kind of career or trade.

Average household income in the US is like 66k. Not hard to beat if you have an actual career and not a job.

 

[Blackcats06]

I agree for the most part. What do you suggest when cost of living skyrockets but someone’s income is stagnant? Or when $500k is entry level for a home and people starting out in life and career are making 40-50k a year. My trade right now is screwed because no one wants an income ceiling under a livable wage. Some areas are just out of line.

Move.... math works everywhere. Find an area with lower cost of living but the same amount of pay

 

[Blackcats06]

I keep reading, having a 'normal life'...........what is a normal life? Who stated that 2 vehicles and a 2000 sq foot house is a normal life? Is having cable, a gym membership and eating out 2x/week a normal life? Is a $900 cell phone part of a normal life? Too many of us are spoiled and expect too much to be 'normal'........just sayin...

You nailed it. We in the US think we deserve every thing right away.

 

[boom]

Awesome post OP. Congrats.
now go buy a home. I kinda think buying a home is the first step in acquiring any wealth. It was for me.
and my best move was to save for the future. I started my retirement accounts late. I think I was 31 years old. I wish I had more compound interest time. But I did start. It’s the future that messes with my head. I wish I took my outdoor money and bought Apple stocks instead. Hehe.

 

[fngTony]

Move.... math works everywhere. Find an area with lower cost of living but the same amount of pay

I also have to consider my wife and her job. So finding a place that is overall better has been a challenge.

 

[bozeman]

To the OP, its all about the priority, singular, not plural.....if you have more than one priority, then you have no priority......I always laugh when people say they have their priorities in line....that's an admission that they dont......no excuse or obstacle will get in the way of a priority.....for instance: someone calls and says my 15 year old son or 13 year old daughter are in danger for their life, that is my priority, get out of my way. A priority ensures focus, effort, approach and energy..... what is your priority in life?


I had a guy tell me his priority was his family, but his kids were in daycare as his wife HAD to work to make ends meet.......while having his 120 acres of hunting land in MS.....I can tell you from his actions that his family was NOT his priority.... hope this serves as an encouragement to prioritize and then go after it with intent/urgent focus.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about my passion for the outdoors-

Whether it be Fly fishing and the long nights tying flies for a trip out west or an early morning drive through a foggy Ohio river bottom on my way to the public land set I hung the week prior.

I often have other thoughts as well, like about the Sako Bavarian Carbine in .308 with S&B Zenith on top ($5k) that I’ve wanted to purchase for months, or the new Carbon fiber Tree steps ($300) or the Sitka outfit ($1k) or the new fly rod set-up ($1k) or the new Meateater knife($300), or Tying vice ($300), or new bow ($1k). Don’t even get me started on the lifted and capped Tundra limited I’ve been eyeing.

The thing is, I can easily “afford” all of these, in fact I could go and buy all of these items and far more by the end of day tomorrow. Now could I pay cash for everything? NO, I could not.

As a new father to a little girl and with twins on the way, I’ve recently been convicted of all the money I spend annually on these things I “need”. I’ve started listening to guys like Dave Ramsey and got intentional about my spending and finances.

This past week my wife and I paid off all of our debt except our Rent (College loans, CCs, Cars =$60,000) and I have never felt better. I don’t drive a lifted tundra anymore, and I feel funny picking up my hunting buddies in my old Honda Odyssey.

But I feel so FREE. There are savings in the bank, and I don’t owe anyone anything, my wife can be a STAHM with our growing family, and we can go anywhere!

If I can do this, as a 31 year old crazy gear guy who spends money like its going out of style, anyone can. In a world where you can finance your first lite underwear, it feels good to be different. I’m not judging anyone who buys stuff on credit, its not wrong. I personally needed to get to this place.



What are your thoughts on Debt? I often wonder if our specific demographic (avid hunters)carries more debt than the average person in our age group due to our insatiable hunger to be out there, getting it done and being successful. I also know some hunters who are the most frugal guys out there.


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Your perspective is far too limited. You need to think bigger. For example, let's say your annual income tax is 25K. You open a home-based ADC company (Animal Damage Control) and spend $25K on gear and business cards. You approach new "potential customers" (not while wearing camo) who own large ranches and offer your services free to show how effective you are. They sign your Trespassing Permission form and you learn their property. You provide photos of predators you've removed and if ya get a particularly nice coyote or lion, have the pelt tanned and give it to em as a gift (a marketing expense). Perhaps later, if you draw a tag in their unit you request permission to hunt there for that as well. The next year you spend another $25K adding weapons, Sitka Gear, and anything else your heart desires because your new business can legally lose money (as many do) for the first four years. During this period you introduce yourself to all the rancher's neighbors and make the same offer saying, "I saw a lion cross the fence into your property but could not legally pursue it without trespassing...maybe you would consider signing this form so next time I can hunt it?"

After the 4th year maybe you you don't need anything else...you have it all, including a 4X4 vehicle. You didn't touch your savings and you didn't fund government corruption. When the government gives the enemy billions of dollars worth of arms...they are not deserving of your tax dollars. You can spend it better. Just a suggestion. Get to know the Game Wardens, put signage on your vehicle and make yourself known to the community, especially when dining at local hangouts. I bought a round of drinks at a small bar and picked up four properties cuz the rancher's hands were there.



Here's the language for the form:

(YOUR NAME HERE)
Animal Damage Control

HUNTING AND ACCESS PERMIT FOR PRIVATE LAND

Permission is hereby granted to (your name here) and guest(s) for the purpose of hunting or trespassing on property owned by the undersigned landowner or his agent.

In accepting this permit, I agree to assume and release the landowner from any and all liability for personal injuries, property damage or the loss of life or property resulting from, or in any way connected with the issuance of this permit whether or not due in whole or part to any act, omission, or negligence of land owner or any of his representatives.

I agree to abide by all hunting, trapping and fishing regulations of the state. I agree to close all gates that closed and leave open gates open unless otherwise instructed, leave no litter or damage any property. I agree to comply with all fire restrictions and to only camp (when necessary/allowed) where permitted. I agree to know and follow the rules of gun safety, respect the rights of hunters, non-hunters and landowners and make an effort to retrieve and use all game/predators taken. If I encounter trespassers I agree to report directly to the property owner and to maintain a safe distance while monitoring their movement to support law enforcement when deemed necessary.


Land Description or Location ____________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________________

X_____________________________________________________ PH.(____)______________
(Landowner or agent’s signature) - (Phone number)

_____________________________________________________________________________
(Landowner or agent’s name-please print)

_____________________________________________________________________________
(Landowner or agent’s address)

(YOUR NAME HERE) ANIMAL DAMAGE CONTROL
(YOUR CONTACT INFO HERE)


​

 

[grossklw]

Update from the OP-

Still no debt other than rent!

Saved up enough for a down payment on a house!

Currently in a holding pattern with work, staying mobile as we will most likely have the option of relocating within a year, houses are stupid right now anyways. Just packing the money away.

Three kids under three makes life very interesting! Our food budget is a total crapshoot, it’s like we have no time to make food!! Doordash is a blessing and a curse.

Streamlined my whole hunting system to be able to hunt out of my Corolla this year . I’ll post pics of some P&Y bucks in it. Hunting Kentucky, Ohio, and upstate New York this year.


Thanks for the encouragement guys, more than one way to skin a cat and seems like this community is pretty on top of it.


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Just taking a stab here, but if you have any interest at all in real estate I'd look at house-hacking your first place instead of buying a dream home. You can get into a 2,3, or 4 unit house with as little as 3.5% down, live in one unit and rent out the rest and it's not impossible that you'd be living for free, or at least have your housing significantly subsidized while paying down a mortgage and getting some appreciation on the asset. I have a couple friends that have done this and one owns 16 units with only putting down 5% or so on each one and they haven't "paid" rent in 5 years and has been living for free.

It's my one big regret in my real estate career is not living in a multiunit for a couple years before buying my primary house.

I'm a big fan of good debt, appreciating money making assets...consumer debt is no bueno.

 

[Magnum61]

@ChromeKype It's all about the specificity of what you want and then adjusting your approach to it. Debt is an indicator of someone acquiring something they didn't earn. It's that simple.

I made probably one of the largest mistakes out of the people I know and I had to learn this lesson the hard way. I made $50k out of college for 5 years, never saved more than 5k, and always had a CC debt of 6k. After I took a class like you're sharing I found out I spent $250k in BS hunting and fishing purchases in 5 years and didn't even know it.

For me to get back on track I moved, changed jobs, and stopped hunting for 5 years. Now, I'm debt-free, huge safety account, huge retirement, and a huge trading account.

It's 100% about what you are willing to give up to get what you want.

 

[awasome]

Keep up the good work.

My wife and I followed the Dave Ramsey plan to get out of debt. Paid $75k in 2.5 years to get out of debt. Took about another 2 years to save up our emergency fund and $30K down payment for our house. The mortgage is all we have in debt and we are working to pay it off in under 10 years.

I made a decision to get into hunting last year, and when I was looking at the prices of brand name technical gear, I about shit a brick. I couldn't imagine financing the gear as they are toys and don't appreciate in value. Needless to say I found great bargains and paid cash for my gear over the last few months and will get more/upgrade as needed.

Most of our friends make more money than us and wonder how my wife and I are able to travel, do home renovations, and still buy nice things. We live in a modest 1600sqft house built in 1979 where our mortgage is 18% of our take home salary, don't have car payments, cook a majority of our meals at home, and really don't buy things just to buy things (other than my bourbon collection). Their mouths would probably drop if they found out we also save 25% of our pay towards retirement.

 

[fngTony]

Keep up the good work.

My wife and I followed the Dave Ramsey plan to get out of debt. Paid $75k in 2.5 years to get out of debt. Took about another 2 years to save up our emergency fund and $30K down payment for our house. The mortgage is all we have in debt and we are working to pay it off in under 10 years.

I made a decision to get into hunting last year, and when I was looking at the prices of brand name technical gear, I about shit a brick. I couldn't imagine financing the gear as they are toys and don't appreciate in value. Needless to say I found great bargains and paid cash for my gear over the last few months and will get more/upgrade as needed.

Most of our friends make more money than us and wonder how my wife and I are able to travel, do home renovations, and still buy nice things. We live in a modest 1600sqft house built in 1979 where our mortgage is 18% of our take home salary, don't have car payments, cook a majority of our meals at home, and really don't buy things just to buy things (other than my bourbon collection). Their mouths would probably drop if they found out we also save 25% of our pay towards retirement.

Wow! 18% is really good. We would have to gross about $315k annually to do that.

 

[awasome]

Wow! 18% is really good. We would have to gross about $315k annually to do that.

We got a good price when we bought the house but it our monthly mortgage was more than 20% of our take home pay. Luckily we refinanced to 2.75% last year so our monthly mortgage dropped. We didn't take any equity out, just got a lower rate but we still pay it like we were paying before the refinance + added principal to try to pay it off as fast as possible without sacrificing too much.

 

[fngTony]

We got a good price when we bought the house but it our monthly mortgage was more than 20% of our take home pay. Luckily we refinanced to 2.75% last year so our monthly mortgage dropped. We didn't take any equity out, just got a lower rate but we still pay it like we were paying before the refinance + added principal to try to pay it off as fast as possible without sacrificing too much.

Same here, I based my math off of the minimum mortgage but we round up a bit. Where about are you?

 

[Loggerdude]

We were taught if you don’t have the money you don’t need it. Want a car need the insurance money first and your own policy done at 15with a nice car
college, get a job go to school, stop going until you have the money, done.
buy a trailer for the first out of house adventure, save buy a junker flip it. 40 years later no debt.
We were extreme in today’s world, but hard work and a desire paid off.
Nobody ever gave us anything other than a desire to live better than we grew up.
single mom no support no education got it done.
oh and did we fish and hunt, animals came in the front door and out the back bleached bones.

 

[xnader]

*I am not a financial advisor, just a guy giving opinion*

Debt can be your friend, and it can be your enemy. There is good debt, and there is bad debt. I am a real estate investor, without debt I would not be able to do many of the things that I do, my properties pay for my hunting/fishing trips plus some. The properties are all mortgaged, they all cashflow, and are all worth significantly more than what I paid for them and I will always have an exit strategy because of this if need be. I would classify these as "good debt". Credit cards (in most cases), payday loans and loans on items which depreciate (cars, trucks, boats etc.), I would consider "bad debt". Now I understand not everyone can afford to buy a reliable truck in cash (especially with vehicle prices in todays market), and sometimes an emergencies can just hit at the absolute worst financial time. That is when bad debt can be useful, and as long as you are very realistic with what you can afford and you aren't being stupid with it buying unnecessary junk, it can be useful. But In no circumstance would I reccommend financing a pair of FL boxers!