Debt and the Hunter

[ChromeKype]

Just an update and clarification from the OP-

Some have assumed by my post that I was prioritizing travel and fun right now which isn’t really the case. But when re-reading my post I can understand how people read it that way. I meant “go anywhere” meaning that we are currently staying mobile while renting here in Ohio for when the right opportunity with my company opens out west which has been a dream of ours. We are shoveling money away right now for a house and for a side hustle my wife can help run as a stay at home mom.

We currently budget about $3400 a month in expenses which includes our $1700 a month rent. My take home pay which varies as I am in sales is around $7-9k after tax and health insurance so the needle is moving quickly. It hasn’t always been this way as it took a while to get to this level of pay and I am very blessed to work for a great company. We want to put 20% down on a forever home in roughly 2 years.

Also, thank you guys so much for the encouragement and congratulations. It’s an awesome feeling!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

A few things to point out:

Dave Ramsey has a lot of great principles, but they are advice for people who are BAD with money, to help get them back on the right track. Many of them are not good principles for people who have self control and understand interest, leverage, etc.

Por ejemplo, you’re actually better off putting ALL of your monthly expenses (food, gas, insurance, utility bills, etc) on a credit card that has % cash back and paying it off every month. However, it can quickly go bad if you start adding impulse purchases, vacations, or things that you can’t pay off.

You can also do things like 0% balance transfers and keep more cash on hand for things like Covid related job losses. For events like that it’s better to have $20k in 0% CC debt and $20k cash on hand, than have paid it off and be flat broke with no income.

All that being said, most people are on the wrong end of the spectrum and you have to assume that CC companies or anybody financing stuff is going to try to screw you.

I’m not in a place yet where I’m spending $10k plus on hunts and considering putting it on a credit card in order to be able to do it while I’m young and healthy, rather than waiting until I’m old, wealthy, and crippled.

So far, I don’t finance anything hunting related, other than putting reasonable amounts of stuff on a card and paying it off that month.

FWIW, I rented for awhile too, but you’re throwing away $40k while you’re saving to move. A realtor/investor I do a lot of work with would recommend finding a duplex you can buy NOW with 5% down, renting out one side and living in the other. Update it if needed and hire a property manager, keeping both sides as a rental when you move if you’re interested in building real wealth, or sell it if you don’t want to be tied to it.

 

[Akwoodchuck]

$1700 simoleons a month on RENT?!!!
Holy shnikeys, man! I know you gotta have a place to live, but that's nuts! Getting outta that situation should be priority one, as I'm sure it is!

 

[Marbles]

$1700 simoleons a month on RENT?!!!
Holy shnikeys, man! I know you gotta have a place to live, but that's nuts! Getting outta that situation should be priority one, as I'm sure it is!

Depends on cost of living where someone lives.

 

[AKBorn]

Just an update and clarification from the OP-

Some have assumed by my post that I was prioritizing travel and fun right now which isn’t really the case. But when re-reading my post I can understand how people read it that way. I meant “go anywhere” meaning that we are currently staying mobile while renting here in Ohio for when the right opportunity with my company opens out west which has been a dream of ours. We are shoveling money away right now for a house and for a side hustle my wife can help run as a stay at home mom.

We currently budget about $3400 a month in expenses which includes our $1700 a month rent. My take home pay which varies as I am in sales is around $7-9k after tax and health insurance so the needle is moving quickly. It hasn’t always been this way as it took a while to get to this level of pay and I am very blessed to work for a great company. We want to put 20% down on a forever home in roughly 2 years.

Also, thank you guys so much for the encouragement and congratulations. It’s an awesome feeling!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you're paying $1,700 per month in rent, if the interest rates stay low you will love paying that or lower for your dream home in a couple of years!

And if you're pulling in 7 - 9k per month after taxes, max out your 401k contributions and watch that money grow over time. I didn't start paying into my 401k until I was 31 I think, had a well paying job, and was able to retire in January at 59, with enough money to last me into my 90s, barring any catastrophes. I took the easy way tho - only married for 4 years many moon ago, no kids, so had no excuse not to put away a lot of dough.

 

[Blackcats06]

$1700 simoleons a month on RENT?!!!
Holy shnikeys, man! I know you gotta have a place to live, but that's nuts! Getting outta that situation should be priority one, as I'm sure it is!

As mentioned it really depends on where you live. Tough to find anything under 2k for a average time below average rental in Phoenix.

 

[Blackcats06]

A properly purchased house is an investment. I've done the math on two properties I've owned, and sold, and return was better than the market looking at the whole picture.

We could pay off our current house tomorrow. It would be worse for us and cost us money from our bottom line every year.

Most people don't look at (or understand) the whole picture.

It can be justified any way you want but paying more than something is worth is a waste of money and that is what is occurring when you pay interest.

 

[Sportsman]

$1700 simoleons a month on RENT?!!!
Holy shnikeys, man! I know you gotta have a place to live, but that's nuts! Getting outta that situation should be priority one, as I'm sure it is!

Depends on where you live. That's cheap in much of the country. That barely gets a studio apartment in San Diego.

 

[Sportsman]

FWIW, I rented for awhile too, but you’re throwing away $40k while you’re saving to move. A realtor/investor I do a lot of work with would recommend finding a duplex you can buy NOW with 5% down, renting out one side and living in the other. Update it if needed and hire a property manager, keeping both sides as a rental when you move if you’re interested in building real wealth, or sell it if you don’t want to be tied to it.

All depends on how long you are in a place. Sure, you can do well short time and I have when I had to move unexpectedly but you are also more subject to whims of market and higher chance of bad timing. I've moved every 2-4 years or so more than two decades. Makes home ownership tougher and more stressful. Every investment has risk and that includes your home if you are in a mobile profession.

 

[Brendan]

It can be justified any way you want but paying more than something is worth is a waste of money and that is what is occurring when you pay interest.

Absolutely not correct at all. Way too simple and black and white of a view.

I can pay off my house tomorrow, but I'd be paying off a loan that's costing me close to 3% APR per year. I am making over 6% per year keeping that money invested instead - and that's been a long term average through up and down markets.

Do the math. You'd be stupid not to "pay the interest".

 

[Reburn]

Absolutely not correct at all. Way too simple and black and white of a view.

I can pay off my house tomorrow, but I'd be paying off a loan that's costing me close to 3% APR per year. I am making over 6% per year keeping that money invested instead - and that's been a long term average through up and down markets.

Do the math. You'd be stupid not to "pay the interest".

Dont forget. you get to write off that 3% interest on your taxes.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

All depends on how long you are in a place. Sure, you can do well short time and I have when I had to move unexpectedly but you are also more subject to whims of market and higher chance of bad timing. I've moved every 2-4 years or so more than two decades. Makes home ownership tougher and more stressful. Every investment has risk and that includes your home if you are in a mobile profession.

Agreed if you’re certain you’re moving and your job dictates the time frame. That’s one of my reasons for mentioning the duplex. You should be able to cut your mortgage to almost $0, and you don’t get eaten up with realtor fees as the buyer.

You obviously won’t build any equity in 2 years unless the market goes up a bunch or you renovate, but with the other tenant paying your bills for you I’d wager you aren’t going to lose $40k even if the market drops.

 

[Burnsie]

Wife and I have been married for 28 years - we didn't start our financial journey off as smart as many of the younger folks here. Racked up a bunch of debt and got ourselves in a pickle. But there is a happy ending to the story - with some smart budgeting and stubbornness we are debt free. House is paid for with a newly remodeled kitchen, Four vehicles sitting in the driveway all paid for - they are all used, but we spent a lot of time finding good reliable vehicles that aren't junk and cost us more in repairs. What I am most proud of is that my last child (of 3) my daughter, will be done with college next summer - we will have gotten all 3 kids through college with no debt! My oldest got his masters from Nebraska and is now married with a great job and doing better than my wife and I have ever done - that's what you hope for -right? If you want to save a lot of money - raise your children with the same financial goals and philosophy you are following - bring them up to be solid, respectful god fearing citizens that understand they will one day have to provide all the things they see around them. Make them earn and save money - earlier the better. They will still be pressured by their peers and society to want all the latest and greatest to keep up with everyone else, but you can provide them with a loving well adjusted home without turning them into them into spoiled, self absorbed young adults. One of the stupid things we did was shower our kids with too many Christmas and birthday gifts when they were just little - we all love our children and it is normal to want to give them a nice Christmas/birthday, but they grow out of and blow through the different stages so fast that most of the stuff just ends up in the storage room after a few months. We decided to gut our storage room after the kids got older and I almost cried when I realized the "thousands" of dollars we had spent on cheap plastic junk toys the kids had hardly played with and were now worthless. Tubs and tubs full of my daughters Polly Pockets, Strawberry Shortcake and American girl crap along with more tubs of GI Joe, Hot Wheels and god knows what else - all crap. More toys is not a substitute for good parenting and love.

 

[beforethehunt]

Dave Ramsey’s plan has the power of focus. If you try to win at one thing-you will. His plan works. It may not make financial sense or math sense at the start but thousand/millions of people became millionaires faster because of him. When you focus you got your goals faster than u thought u could. We paid off 27000 in college debt in 10 months making about 85000 back in 2007 (just before the last recession). In 2017 (went back in debt to upgrade our house) we paid off 58000 in 10 months making 150k (with 5 kids and funding retirement at 10% and $3,000 towards college. In 2013 we paid off our house with 3 young kiddos and one on the way. Looking back I don’t know how we did it. This year we funded our roof replacement 4 months ahead of time. The power of focus. Also Dave Ramsey is inspirational and wants to give people a plan. When u have a plan U have hope...here is a link to part of our story

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bobr1]

$1700 simoleons a month on RENT?!!!
Holy shnikeys, man! I know you gotta have a place to live, but that's nuts! Getting outta that situation should be priority one, as I'm sure it is!

Yeah, thats funny....I think some people are out of touch on the cost of living in a lot of different areas. Having moved around a lot in the country from being in the military I've gone through the gambit of prices. My last duty stationed we were paying $2,400 a month on military housing which is, subsidized heavily, and that was for a 2 bedroom 1 1/2 bath town home. Closing on a house that is our "forever home", interest rate 2.5% and mortgage is $1800 a month but is in a great state and on 10 acres (also don't have to pay property tax). My situation is complicated financially, as I am already retired and getting a pension at a very young age due to military stuff but wife is still working. After 2 years of being retired, I have gotten somewhat bored, even though I can hunt and fish whenever I want, most of my friends my age still have to work so I tend to go solo or hangout with older retired people. I also volunteered a lot at a few different places just to interact with people. So I've decided to start a new career and use all the extra money from that to just max at all of our retirement vessels and have the wife be able to retire by 45 super comfortably and take nice vacations and trips in the mean time.

Also, all of our cars are paid off newest one is a 2007 oldest is a 2000. No credit card debt, but do use one to pay for almost everything because I get tons of points and use it for flights, hotels etc.... no student loans. Free medical for me and the wife for life. Wife gets up to 45k to do more schooling (already has a Masters). If we have kids they get free medical until college age and stipend for college that would pay for most state schools completely. Since I already have a B.S. I can use GI bill to pay for any schooling and get about $1500 a month during school for housing allowance in this area. So I will be making more money while going to school for free....

On the Dave Ramsey thing......look his advice is fine and for people that are money and savings illiterate it can help get them out of serious debt and on a better path. But his stuff is a guideline and not the bible....Seriously most of the places I have lived trying to buy a a house with a 15 year mortgage and less than 25% of AGI payment is not possible for almost anyone to do. But if you think Ramsey is super frugal, you should read Mr. Money mustaches forums.....I was not surprised when I found out he got divorced.


I guess to the ops original post, I do think people spend way to much on stuff with very little return. I know some of the gear is really nice but I don't even hunt in camo, just neutral stuff. Figure I'm going to get busted by the wind well before they can see me. I research a ton and try to find good deals and look at the cost vs benefits of investing in something. I bought Crispis', but I also got them for half off at a local store. Got a stone glacier pack (discount) but have used that thing so much for packing out meat and makes it so much more comfortable than a cheap pack.

I think it is good to not buy the latest and greatest and always be in debt. I also don't think you should deprive yourself for decades to the point you are sleeping in a tent to save money just so you can have a ton of money by retirement....then boom you get cancer, heart attack etc..... Life is unpredictable and about experiences and some can be done free or cheap and some cost more so it's about compromise. But I hunt with some guys that are pretty frugal and literally reuse their butcher paper every year until it tears through.....I refuse to do that..

 

[Cedarsavage]

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about my passion for the outdoors-

Whether it be Fly fishing and the long nights tying flies for a trip out west or an early morning drive through a foggy Ohio river bottom on my way to the public land set I hung the week prior.

I often have other thoughts as well, like about the Sako Bavarian Carbine in .308 with S&B Zenith on top ($5k) that I’ve wanted to purchase for months, or the new Carbon fiber Tree steps ($300) or the Sitka outfit ($1k) or the new fly rod set-up ($1k) or the new Meateater knife($300), or Tying vice ($300), or new bow ($1k). Don’t even get me started on the lifted and capped Tundra limited I’ve been eyeing.

The thing is, I can easily “afford” all of these, in fact I could go and buy all of these items and far more by the end of day tomorrow. Now could I pay cash for everything? NO, I could not.

As a new father to a little girl and with twins on the way, I’ve recently been convicted of all the money I spend annually on these things I “need”. I’ve started listening to guys like Dave Ramsey and got intentional about my spending and finances.

This past week my wife and I paid off all of our debt except our Rent (College loans, CCs, Cars =$60,000) and I have never felt better. I don’t drive a lifted tundra anymore, and I feel funny picking up my hunting buddies in my old Honda Odyssey.

But I feel so FREE. There are savings in the bank, and I don’t owe anyone anything, my wife can be a STAHM with our growing family, and we can go anywhere!

If I can do this, as a 31 year old crazy gear guy who spends money like its going out of style, anyone can. In a world where you can finance your first lite underwear, it feels good to be different. I’m not judging anyone who buys stuff on credit, its not wrong. I personally needed to get to this place.



What are your thoughts on Debt? I often wonder if our specific demographic (avid hunters)carries more debt than the average person in our age group due to our insatiable hunger to be out there, getting it done and being successful. I also know some hunters who are the most frugal guys out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good post. My wife and I came out of college 90k in debt. We’ve been following Dave Ramsey about 2.5 years at the end of the month the only bill we will have is for our house. Both our cars are paid for. Can’t wait to get the house paid off. Dave Ramsey is traction in a world of spin.

 

[ChromeKype]

Agreed if you’re certain you’re moving and your job dictates the time frame. That’s one of my reasons for mentioning the duplex. You should be able to cut your mortgage to almost $0, and you don’t get eaten up with realtor fees as the buyer.

You obviously won’t build any equity in 2 years unless the market goes up a bunch or you renovate, but with the other tenant paying your bills for you I’d wager you aren’t going to lose $40k even if the market drops.

I’ve thought about this for a while now, what’s interesting is that there are 0 (and I mean absolutely 0) duplexes for sale anywhere near me. We’d have to move to the hood. We are also fairly confident we will be in another state within 2.5 years. So we’d have hardly any equity, would have to pay repairs out of our own pocket and play the lotto with renters while having 3 kids under 3.

We’re going to stick it out in our 2100 sq. ft. 3 bed 3.5 bath townhome with a 2 car garage and pool. It’s a great deal ( also less then 25% of our monthly take home). Can’t wait to be in my own house with at least a 20% down payment and 15 year mortgage though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sportsman]

I’ve thought about this for a while now, what’s interesting is that there are 0 (and I mean absolutely 0) duplexes for sale anywhere near me. We’d have to move to the hood. We are also fairly confident we will be in another state within 2.5 years. So we’d have hardly any equity, would have to pay repairs out of our own pocket and play the lotto with renters while having 3 kids under 3.

We’re going to stick it out in our 2100 sq. ft. 3 bed 3.5 bath townhome with a 2 car garage and pool. It’s a great deal ( also less then 25% of our monthly take home). Can’t wait to be in my own house with at least a 20% down payment and 15 year mortgage though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what I was about to reply. Duplexes aren't universally available, particularly when school district is the number one driving factor on where to live and a safe neighborhood with it. I don't know of a duplex within 10 miles of me which will take out our school district.

 

[grossklw]

That FHA 3.5% down loan is eligible for anything up to a 4-plex. I’m guessing the fact that you have no duplexes near you would also mean you don’t have any 3 or 4-plexs either but just thought I’d throw that out there.

I didn’t house hack my first rental but it’s still the biggest financial mistake I’ve ever made. You just can’t beat those terms.

I always kind of chuckle on Dave Ramsey. I can’t stand him or his advice for the financially literate but there’s a whole other world that adore him and make it work for them. Gotta love this country haha.

 

[boom]

regular folks buy stuff you need to make payments on.

rich people buy investments. i have been saving hardcore to ready myself for retirement.

if i could write myself..my 20 year old self a letter it would have be to start SAVING money now!! take advantage of time and the power of compounding interests. all that crap i bought, i bet i dont own 99% of it or can even recall any of it. total waste. now if i bought Google stock!!

oh, i would make a small note on being better to Julie O.