Debt and the Hunter

[nrh6.7]

We got really lucky on college expenses. Texas veterans are eligible for 150 hours of free tuition to any State school. I can use it myself or gift it to my kids. Told the boys, you each get 75 hours and the rest is up to you. My late MIL wanted to contribute so she paid for books. First kid graduated in 2018 with zero debt (actually $2k in pocket due to scholarships) and the second shouldn't have much when he is done. However, if that hadn't been an option I would have still helped, but paying for your own education is a great way to learn the value of money. Especially if they pay as they go.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Hi I refuse to carry credit card debt from month to month, I have a great lone of credit but I never spend more on the card than I can comfortably pay back come bill day.

debt is for houses, education etc, not things o can just set money aside for a few months then buy.

 

[TheGDog]

I'm over here trippin' seeing all these guys talkin' 'bout in their 30's and house paid off?? and I'm like What-the-what?? Then I look over and see their Geographical location being midwest and the like and I'm like "Oh.. right."

You guys have no idea how much ire it induces to those of us out here like in Kommiefornia (especially SoCal)... when we're watching one of those property shows... and you see some couple... and their *itching about the price on a house... and it's like, I dunno, freakin' 4000 sq ft living space... some amount of lot space that actually uses acres in the measurement rather than sq ft... and there over here whining about having to pay $250K for it! And It looks like a plantation style MANSION. Makes ya wanna scream and reach thru the TV and pimp slap'em! Ugh!

RE: Making use of some debt in order to pursue hunting. - Some of that is very dependent on your stage in life that you're at currently. If you're a little further along in your working years before you started this passion, (and a little further along in your years before you started a family) and live in a higher cost-of-living area... you may also need to look at the expenditure from the stand point of how many more viable years do I have left in you to pursue this? This may warrant allowing yourself to splurge a little since you won't have a bunch of years to slowly collect gear paying for it in cash. And especially if you don't come from a family that hunted and thus didn't have ANY equipment to start with.

Don't get me wrong. My GrandPa always preached about "Live BELOW your means!". But there are just some certain inescapable realities that can make waiting until you've got the cash in hand not a very realistic scenario for some due to time constraints and cashflow constraints, especially since in my situation I *have* to hurry up and get this house paid for before I hit retirement years, otherwise I'm screwed. And.. the tentative plan is to convince the boy, when he becomes an adult, to go in on a remodel, we add a story onto the house, possibly engineer them to be separated so he has his privacy and can pursue finding a mate without us cramping his style. Then he inherits it. That way my boy and future grandkids can have a HUGE leg-up out here by actually having living space taken care of. (That's HUGE) All along as I've had to address repair issues.. I make it a point to explain to him what happened... what was needed to fix it... the costs... you know.. just trying to get his head right so he grows up having realworld understanding of the kinds of dollar amounts these things are when it comes to addressing a home repair issue. Gotta use EVERYTHING that occurs as a "learning opportunity" with them. With that eye to the future of realizing they are gonna have to deal with this themselves very soon.

 

[Idaho_Potato]

Remember this phrase : "It's cheaper to keep her." Do-overs and chasin'-tail again? That... blows thru money like nobodies business. Believe that.

This is terrible advice. Suffering through a dead or shit marriage because its cheaper? You only live once. Money comes and goes. If things are bad get the hell out and work your ass off to fix your mistake. Happy and broke is a hell of a lot better than a full bank account and no will to get up in the morning and face it all. Been on both sides. Happier without her (no kids to deal with thankfully).

 

[TheGDog]

This is terrible advice. Suffering through a dead or shit marriage because its cheaper? You only live once. Money comes and goes. If things are bad get the hell out and work your ass off to fix your mistake. Happy and broke is a hell of a lot better than a full bank account and no will to get up in the morning and face it all. Been on both sides. Happier without her (no kids to deal with thankfully).

Well... Ok... you are right about that. However, sometimes we are perfectionists in what we had envisioned for our own lives. And also.. in our younger years we can sometimes lack the skills and experience in conflict resolution, that can sometimes really turns things around dramatically.

In my own case, in hindsight... #1 really was a good woman. And I was young and foolish for choosing to step away from it. #2 was a passion-fueled mistake. #3? There are several things I wish were better about it... but... I at least I know she'll be down to ride this whole thing out together till the end, and, she did give me a super handsome boy out of it. Something I thought I'd almost missed my chance on. So it gives me a lot more "patience" to deal with their occasional BS that every single one of em does have and sometimes put you through... ugh.. especially in this era where they're approaching or have reached menopause. And the fact that she's super-model gorgeous is a big nod in her favor in terms of my patience during heated moments.

Whenever I meet young ones these days about to tie-the-knot, I tell 'em about what I call the Mack Truck test.

The Mack Truck test goes like this... If your partner got hit by a Mack Truck tomorrow and became a vegetable, would you continue to stick around and be there for them afterward? Forever? If ANY little part of you has mis-givings about such a scenario... you need to Abort Mission. Because that's the thing about it. You literally have no idea what kind of insane challenges tomorrow will bring for you two. And you need someone down with you where you feel certain they'd do the same for you. For if you have any doubts if they would?.. that will eat away at you if some kind of an unfortunate situation like that were to arise, and you were to be subjected to having to love and care for this other person, without receiving the typical "benefits" such a relationship typically brings with it.

 

[Carr5vols]

First rule of hunt club: If you ain't got it don't spend it. First years of my marriage with little kids got to hunt very little with the old hand me downs from my teenage years. They worked and still do today and I have some amazing hunting memories from those times. Same time Made a promise to The Lord to begin paying tithes (10%) even though we did not have it. Since that point, The Lord has blessed us more than i could ever imagine and I can go and do just about how I want. PTL. Can't outgive The Lord.

Point is the latest and greatest gizmo will not make you a better hunter or the memory any better. Besides you going to remember that new pair of underwear when your 80 laying on your death bed, or the memory of the hunt and the people with you.

One last comment my grandfather says: "You ever seen a Wells Fargo truck following a hearse"...think about that.

 

[Idaho_Potato]

The Mack Truck test goes like this... If your partner got hit by a Mack Truck tomorrow and became a vegetable, would you continue to stick around and be there for them afterward? Forever? If ANY little part of you has mis-givings about such a scenario... you need to Abort Mission. Because that's the thing about it. You literally have no idea what kind of insane challenges tomorrow will bring for you two. And you need someone down with you where you feel certain they'd do the same for you. For if you have any doubts if they would?.. that will eat away at you if some kind of an unfortunate situation like that were to arise, and you were to be subjected to having to love and care for this other person, without receiving the typical "benefits" such a relationship typically brings with it.

Boy, that is truth and I know that feeling all too well. I knew years before number one was over. I stuck it out for reasons. None of them were good enough to overcome what I knew deep down after 7 years. Probably won't be a number two.

 

[Wapiti1]

For those advocating the positives of credit cards with point etc, getting things for free etc... I assure you. This is being paid indirectly. Credit cards are the vampires of the economy. They take 2-7% of every transaction from a business. That money comes from somewhere. Think if you paid 2-7% less for all of your discretionary purchases every year.

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This is only partially true. Yes, they are vampires. However, if the assumption is that I have to pay anyway, this method allows me to get something back through the points and recoup a portion of my money. Meaning I still paid less for the goods in the end and got a plane ticket too in my little points savings account.

If CC fees went away tomorrow, no one is going to lower their prices. They know what the market will bear and we'll pay.

Jeremy

 

[Poser]

This is terrible advice. Suffering through a dead or shit marriage because its cheaper? You only live once. Money comes and goes. If things are bad get the hell out and work your ass off to fix your mistake. Happy and broke is a hell of a lot better than a full bank account and no will to get up in the morning and face it all. Been on both sides. Happier without her (no kids to deal with thankfully).

As the old saying goes, “why is divorce so expensive? Because it’s worth it.”

I’ll say this, at this point in life, I am content with being a bachelor. Dating women with kids, X husbands, alimony check fights etc makes the cost not worth the reward. You end up being about #5 on their list of priorities and most are just looking for a guy to provide additional provisions to support their lifestyle and kids anyway. There’s always the option to date women 10-15 years younger, and that’s fine when it comes along. Still, best to just stay a bachelor, make your own money, spend it how you want, do what you want to do when you want to do it. if your are living life well enough, women will fall in your lap with enough occasional regularity that there’s no reason to put effort into impressing or pursuing them. If anything, women have put themselves in a overall social position where they should be ones doing the Pursuing, not men. Let them chase after you, and otherwise stay focused living an excellent life and doing things that make you happy. Unless you want kids or meet the most impressive woman imaginable, marriage is pretty much a raw deal for men.

 

[sasquatch]

For those advocating the positives of credit cards with point etc, getting things for free etc... I assure you. This is being paid indirectly. Credit cards are the vampires of the economy. They take 2-7% of every transaction from a business. That money comes from somewhere. Think if you paid 2-7% less for all of your discretionary purchases every year.

I am not advocating some wild cash only society. I just want to point out that nothing is free. It’s being paid though the higher prices in good you purchase every day. Look at the stock price for Visa/Amex and other providers. That profit comes from from your pocket for the ease of paying by CC instead of cash.


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This! Most people think they make their money from peoples interest. It’s just not true, they make their real money on every single purchase. They love people who pay the card off vs carry debt.

The issue is, in today’s world it’s just part of it. You’d never get enough people to back track to make prices drop or cause any change


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[sasquatch]

I'm over here trippin' seeing all these guys talkin' 'bout in their 30's and house paid off?? and I'm like What-the-what?? Then I look over and see their Geographical location being midwest and the like and I'm like "Oh.. right."

You guys have no idea how much ire it induces to those of us out here like in Kommiefornia (especially SoCal)... when we're watching one of those property shows... and you see some couple... and their *itching about the price on a house... and it's like, I dunno, freakin' 4000 sq ft living space... some amount of lot space that actually uses acres in the measurement rather than sq ft... and there over here whining about having to pay $250K for it! And It looks like a plantation style MANSION. Makes ya wanna scream and reach thru the TV and pimp slap'em! Ugh!

RE: Making use of some debt in order to pursue hunting. - Some of that is very dependent on your stage in life that you're at currently. If you're a little further along in your working years before you started this passion, (and a little further along in your years before you started a family) and live in a higher cost-of-living area... you may also need to look at the expenditure from the stand point of how many more viable years do I have left in you to pursue this? This may warrant allowing yourself to splurge a little since you won't have a bunch of years to slowly collect gear paying for it in cash. And especially if you don't come from a family that hunted and thus didn't have ANY equipment to start with.

Don't get me wrong. My GrandPa always preached about "Live BELOW your means!". But there are just some certain inescapable realities that can make waiting until you've got the cash in hand not a very realistic scenario for some due to time constraints and cashflow constraints, especially since in my situation I *have* to hurry up and get this house paid for before I hit retirement years, otherwise I'm screwed. And.. the tentative plan is to convince the boy, when he becomes an adult, to go in on a remodel, we add a story onto the house, possibly engineer them to be separated so he has his privacy and can pursue finding a mate without us cramping his style. Then he inherits it. That way my boy and future grandkids can have a HUGE leg-up out here by actually having living space taken care of. (That's HUGE) All along as I've had to address repair issues.. I make it a point to explain to him what happened... what was needed to fix it... the costs... you know.. just trying to get his head right so he grows up having realworld understanding of the kinds of dollar amounts these things are when it comes to addressing a home repair issue. Gotta use EVERYTHING that occurs as a "learning opportunity" with them. With that eye to the future of realizing they are gonna have to deal with this themselves very soon.

Move and join us, get free lol.


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[beforethehunt]

Debt free is focused living and I believe makes you a better husband, father, freind, hunter


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[AZmark]

If youre young and into all that $$$ fancy gear you need to read this, a story from experience about just where you are in life and how it may pan out in the end.

I'm 66 and been a hunter, fisher, camper, outdoorsman all my life. I had 2 boys in my early 20's and I was the sole breadwinner at the house so $$ was limited. In the mid 80's I wanted a lightweight custom rifle in 7mm08 so I visited gun shows and found a old rusted bbl 1948 Remington 722 in 257 Robts. but the action was good, I had it rebarreled with a featherweight 7mm08 bbl. I used that as my primary rifle and as my sons got old enough to hunt I bought me a Remington 700ss mtn rifle in 270. Well after my oldest son shot his first elk and a bear with it at 11 or 12 that became his gun, so I bought another of the same. 2 yrs later when my youngest son used that one to shoot his first elk, now that gun became his 270. So by now I was making a little better $$ and my wife was working and the Remington titanium just came on the market, so I bought yet another 270. This one remained mine and I hunted with it for years along with my original 7mm08. For the next 20+ when my sons and I went hunting I reloaded for one caliber only. We would all 3 load into the "single cab" 78 F150 4x4 and head out for a week at a time.

Fast forward 30+ years and I retired from a good job and started my own contracting/consulting. Making good money so I bought 2 Barrett Fieldcrafts in 7mm08 and 270.........And found I still like my 1948 Rem 722 and my Rem 700 Ti better. Barrett Fieldcraft 270 is up for sale. Keeping the 7mm08 as my daughter in law likes it. She shot her first deer with my old 7mm08 Rem 722.

I have a lifetime of hunting memories with my sons, they still hunt with the OM, and they still shoot their original 270s. and so do I. Neither of them have fallen for the huge 6.5 craze, or the super high dollar 25x/twist turret scope craze, or the fancy camo designer clothes, etc, etc. and we still bag deer and elk almost every year depending on getting drawn.

Gist of the story is.....Fancy gear does not make memories and is not necessarily required to have fun.

PS. I have 2 mule deer tags this fall, one in AZ and one in NM. My sons will be with me, and I'll be hunting with my original 7mm08 or 270.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Debt is great for buying earning assets which you are going to pay for over time like an income producing rental properties.

For what you are talking about - buying toys - it's is financial crack cocaine. I spend a lot on credit cards, but I haven't paid a cent in interest on any of them in a decade or more. If you can't pay it off the next month, you can't afford it. Don't let the (likely many) people you know who conduct their life differently convince you otherwise.

Best advice on the internet. Debt isn’t equal. It can help securing future income. Or, it can be a headache. The important thing is to mix and match advice. Dave Ramsey is right in the examples he gives on debt associated with wants. But, debt can be helpful. Learn the examples it is. Then be smart on planning concerning Debts associated with desires. You get that right and you’ll retire from payroll work well before 60.

 

[Bsd0323]

Debt free is the way to be

 

[Sportsman]

Personally, I despite Dave Ramsey but realize he has a place. I think his advice is ok for people who are struggling with finances and debt; but once you have a net worth of above zero I find a lot of his advice absolute garbage. Buy a house with one of "his" providers? Only get a financial adviser that he endorses because only a financial planner can do it better than you, right? Index funds will outperform 99% of financial advisors when you include their fees (unless your financial advisor is Ray Daalio and Warren Buffet). Never ever take a credit card out because they're terrible ideas right? My wife and I went to Hawaii for 10 days and stayed right on the beach and didn't pay a penny with the rewards of about half a year. Pay them off and track your spending, not that difficult.

I also disagree on debt, consumer debt I absolutely agree is financial suicide and a terrible idea, but asset and income producing debt I'll take on all day and don't anticipating stopping anytime soon; especially with current interest rates. I'm 31 and am technically about 3 million in debt and I sleep like a baby. I own a significant rental portfolio that cash flows very well that wouldn't have been possible without taking on debt. Dave would say keep chugging away at that 401k like the rest of the country and make sure you pay one of my advisors 1% of your portfolio every year in a mutual fund... If I would've went the Dave Ramsey route instead of what I'm currently doing out of college I would have around 700k less in net worth.

Amen to the high school wealth building class, amazes me how many 19 year olds I see driving lifted F-250's wondering why they can't afford to do anything.

I don't listen to Dave anymore and I don't agree with his steps hook, line and sinker - you can start investing for retirement before you have 3-6 months savings and I too am a Vanguard index guy. But, most people will be better off with his plan than the plan they are on.

On debt and rental property, I don't know your capitalization and won't ask but if you look up Dave's story, that was his story - a large portfolio of rentals that were undercapitalized and the real estate market crashed. Every strategy needs to be tested in bull and bear markets. That applies to real estate and stocks.

 

[Pk_in_Dallas]

Over the years I have learned that most hunting “stuff” is nice to have but doesn’t really have a thing to do with helping kill a trophy animal. I’m as guilty as anyone about wanting latest and greatest or best but at some point we are fooling ourselves.

Not how much money you make it’s how much money you save and invest without incurring *any* debt. I spend a lot of money on hunts every year and pay cash for all of it. My wife thinks I’m crazy but I equally spend money on great family vacations, house projects, etc.

One thing that I have found is that I have narrowed down my hobbies to pretty much hunting. I’ll do a few guided day fishing trips a year but I spend all my dough on hunting. Would be impossible for me if I wanted to do wide variety of hobbies.


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[Ross]

Unless you want kids or meet the most impressive woman imaginable, marriage is pretty much a raw deal for men.

this is very true if you choose the wrong women, choose the right one and they bring a lot to the life journey and to support your hunting endeavors....I got lucky in the summer of 83......my racktober girl rocks

 

[grossklw]

I don't listen to Dave anymore and I don't agree with his steps hook, line and sinker - you can start investing for retirement before you have 3-6 months savings and I too am a Vanguard index guy. But, most people will be better off with his plan than the plan they are on.

On debt and rental property, I don't know your capitalization and won't ask but if you look up Dave's story, that was his story - a large portfolio of rentals that were undercapitalized and the real estate market crashed. Every strategy needs to be tested in bull and bear markets. That applies to real estate and stocks.

I agree with your statement here. I just don’t think he’s great for financially literate people; but he does have a place. He just seems very snake oily to me the way he presents his stuff as if it’s the only way to go and anyone who thinks different than him is an idiot. I’ll give him credit for building a brand but I just flat out do not like him.

I hear you on the under capitalization. You can get into trouble being over leveraged and betting on appreciation and I’ve picked the brains of plenty of investors that survived ‘08 and they all said the same thing. Buy right in B and C class areas and they didn’t notice much change in rent coming in, just the value of the properties. Ones that did get in trouble had balloons coming due and didn’t have a backup plan. I could sustain zero rent coming in for over a year and still be ok.

But in saying that I still have 401k money and max out our Roth’s every year as a bit of a hedge against real estate.

 

[Akwoodchuck]

LOL I came home from work today, and the wife couldn't wait to show me the cute outfit she ordered on Amazon ...she actually rarely to never does that. Screw it, she makes better money than I do!