CVA WARNING RECALL

[ElDiablito]

Let me know when you want to sell me one of those 1:28 twist whites haha

I’m half tempted to post the White torture test results - you’d be shocked at the abuse the white muzzleloaders took in those tests.

Too soon?

 

[ElDiablito]

And just to remind everyone, BPI outdoors, said they were discontinuing/pausing this line due to powder shortages….

C

Thread 'CVA Temporarily Ceasing Paramount Production Due To BH209 Scarcity'

Apr 11, 2023

The following is from their Facebook page CVA Official Paramount Shooters.


CVA

In recent months we have been receiving more and more feedback from frustrated CVA customers regarding finding components, specifically Blackhorn 209 powder, and large rifle primers. As a manufacturer, we feel we have a responsibility to offer products that our customers can enjoy and fully utilize in the field.
We are aware that there will still be smaller amounts of Blackhorn 209 powder showing up to a limited number of retailers, from time to time. However, we do not feel there is enough Blackhorn 209...

• Curmudgeon
• Replies: 54
• Forum: Muzzleloader

• 

 

[Hnthrdr]

I’m half tempted to post the White torture test results - you’d be shocked at the abuse the white muzzleloaders took in those tests.

Too soon?

I’m just glad I’m not a union soldier holding little round top and just a shmuck elk hunting haha double loading hasn’t been a serious issue for me… at least yet haha

 

[realunlucky]

And just to remind everyone, BPI outdoors, said they were discontinuing/pausing this line due to powder shortages….

C

Thread 'CVA Temporarily Ceasing Paramount Production Due To BH209 Scarcity'

Apr 11, 2023

The following is from their Facebook page CVA Official Paramount Shooters.


CVA

In recent months we have been receiving more and more feedback from frustrated CVA customers regarding finding components, specifically Blackhorn 209 powder, and large rifle primers. As a manufacturer, we feel we have a responsibility to offer products that our customers can enjoy and fully utilize in the field.
We are aware that there will still be smaller amounts of Blackhorn 209 powder showing up to a limited number of retailers, from time to time. However, we do not feel there is enough Blackhorn 209...

• Curmudgeon
• Replies: 54
• Forum: Muzzleloader

• 

Both things can be true

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[Kyguy]

Both things can be true

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

If I remember correctly (and I may not LMAO), the statement about the powder shortage came out ONLY after the issue with out of spec barrels started spreading on-line. I'm telling you, BPI does a fantastic job of smothering any kind negative publicity.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Reason for Recall
An unsafe condition may occur if a Paramount rifle is improperly loaded, including but not limited to:
• Double loading
• Use of incorrect or incompatible powder
• Improper loading, cleaning or storage procedures
• Presence of obstruction
These conditions may create an increased risk of failure, serious injury, or death to the user or bystanders during the initial or subsequent firings.

So, someone left the gun loaded with the wrong powder? Stored it a while? Then that person, or someone else, loaded another charge on top of it, and fired it?

 

[ElDiablito]

Both things can be true

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

That shortage thing was total BS

 

[Fitzwho]

So what’s everyone getting? The Endura series or the gift card and buying 4 scout rifles? I haven’t had my Paramount out in a couple years, so contemplating my options. Problem will be that every rifle they have will be sold out within a week, checked after getting the email and most of the stuff I’d be interested in is out of stock.

Thinking gift card/rifles and pinching Pennie’s for that new Weatherby 307 muzzleloader.

I haven’t 3 bottles of Blackhorn sitting idle now.

 

[Kyguy]

So, someone left the gun loaded with the wrong powder? Stored it a while? Then that person, or someone else, loaded another charge on top of it, and fired it?

See my post above yours. There was some issues with barrels going on a few years back. You have to dig on the web to find the info. BPI is very skilled at squashing bad publicity. I have a feeling that it has come back to bite them in the ass.

I've got a Wolf V2 stainless sitting in the safe that I bought as soon as they came out. You can feel the variance in the barrel when you're pushing a bullet/sabot down. It's so tight at the muzzle and first couple of inches that I actually broke a ramrod. Then it opens up about halfway down and some bullets literally just drop on the breech plug. It wouldn't shoot ANYTHING. I mean not one combination of bullet and powder. I sent it back to CVA with a detailed letter and several of the commonly available bullet/sabot combos that I tried so that they could see the issue firsthand. I get the rifle back with a letter a few weeks later that said "Gunsmith said that a Powerbelt will pass". That's literally the only thing it said. And they kept my bullets. After I fussed on their Facebook group, one of their marketing guys reached out and sent me 5 packs of the then new ELR bullets. So they wouldn't put a new barrel on a $200 gun, but they sent me $150 worth of bullets instead that still shot like shit.

I won't sell that turd to anyone, for fear of problems. I need to just get a metal blade for my chop saw and cut it in pieces and toss it.

 

[kjw]

So what’s everyone getting? The Endura series or the gift card and buying 4 scout rifles? I haven’t had my Paramount out in a couple years, so contemplating my options. Problem will be that every rifle they have will be sold out within a week, checked after getting the email and most of the stuff I’d be interested in is out of stock.

Thinking gift card/rifles and pinching Pennie’s for that new Weatherby 307 muzzleloader.

I haven’t 3 bottles of Blackhorn sitting idle now.

I looked as well. Gonna be awhile to get all the replacements shipped. Kinda frustrating they don’t offer the endura in .50, I’m in Colorado and gotta have it to hunt elk.

 

[ElDiablito]

I won't sell that turd to anyone, for fear of problems. I need to just get a metal blade for my chop saw and cut it in pieces and toss it.

Sounds like a waste of a good chop saw blade….

 

[ArcheryWowzers]

Finally my chance to contribute!

There have been multiple explosions.

Years ago there was a recall on the ELR bullets claiming they were out of spec and causing problems. What incidents those bullets caused was never really clarified. But that was the first public sign something was up.

There have been lawsuits and discovery with very interesting scientific based findings. CVA had plenty of science available to them they could have cited in the recall. They clearly chose another path.

One explosion was at a gun range. It occurred before the bullet recall, but the bullet recall didn't happen because of this incident. Not only did the exploding barrel hurt the shooter, it exploded parts of the barrel sideways and injured someone else at the gun range. The second person who was injured sued the shooter with the Paramount Pro claiming negligence.

Expert witnesses were called and the lawsuit dragged on for years. An expert witness found that based on the location of the explosion on the barrel and on witness testimony, that the gun had not been double loaded. Microscopic analysis of the barrel metal was used from other lawsuits showing where the metal would develop tiny cracks. I also believe it was demonstrated that the metal was not actually the strength of metal CVA claimed the barrel was made from. The exploded barrel was found to have flaws consistent with barrels from other explosions and/or lawsuits. So there was a history of the same failure.

Over the course of many years, those bullets were recalled, then CVA stopped manufacturing claiming lack of powder, then we had a Paramount Pro 2 which I never really saw with much availability (almost as if the production was quickly stopped). CVA has known about this problem for years did nothing as these lawsuits played out. I am so curious to know what finally happened, the straw that broke the camels back, that led them to issue a recall.

I think it's bs that CVA is only reimbursing the customer in the form of a credit. Seriously who wants to spend their $2200 credit to get another Bergara barrel from a company showing issues with safety. There's no way in hell I'd take their replacement muzzleloader at this point.

I haven't looked at the trade in details or fine print, but I wonder if they are making you sign your right to future legal recourse away and are trying to limit the amount of people who might join a class action lawsuit against them.

 

[Fitzwho]

Wowzers,

That’s exactly what a recall is for, especially one that fully replaces the product in question and, per the recall form, will require the Paramount be shipped back to CVA.

I bought cheap Walmart 410 and 28ga semi’s last year on a whim to try out. A couple months later the 410 was recalled. They sent me a check and said to chop up the 410 and trash it. The 28 runs perfect. I was never able to get the 410 to operate correctly.

As for the Paramount, half the states I have hunted with it no longer allow scopes, so I’ve been needing a new setup anyway. Barrel issues should be across the board, so anything larger bore (over 30 cal) will be a no go for me.

So I just need to decide it i want a Cascade 204 and something else mid tier or one nicer something like a Cima CF in 22 Creedmoor. Or buy whatever I know I can turn around and sell easily and go a different route entirely.

 

[5MilesBack]

Every reason they listed for the recall is just as capable of happening with every ML on the market. Every one of these conditions is on the user, not the manufacturer.

Double loading - check
Use of incorrect or incompatible powder - check
Improper loading, cleaning or storage procedures - check
Presence of obstruction - check.

 

[Bearded Bowhunter]

Every reason they listed for the recall is just as capable of happening with every ML on the market. Every one of these conditions is on the user, not the manufacturer.

Double loading - check
Use of incorrect or incompatible powder - check
Improper loading, cleaning or storage procedures - check
Presence of obstruction - check.

I mean, yes that is true IF that is the actual cause.
Because companies trying CYA always just tell the whole truth in a situation like this..

 

[Kyguy]

CVA is not going to come out and say that there's a bad batch of barrels, even though it's pretty common knowledge by now that there was a bad run. No different than when Remington came out with the recall on the Walker trigger but didn't say that there was actually anything wrong with the Walker trigger. They are not going to admit any liability in print unless forced to do so by a court settlement.

 

[dsotm]

I figured double loading with H4350 would give me at least twice the wallop authority.

I drilled my barrel out to .70, those tiny .50s don't hit hard enough for anything but rabbits

 

[ArcheryWowzers]

Wowzers,

That’s exactly what a recall is for, especially one that fully replaces the product in question and, per the recall form, will require the Paramount be shipped back to CVA.

I bought cheap Walmart 410 and 28ga semi’s last year on a whim to try out. A couple months later the 410 was recalled. They sent me a check and said to chop up the 410 and trash it. The 28 runs perfect. I was never able to get the 410 to operate correctly.

As for the Paramount, half the states I have hunted with it no longer allow scopes, so I’ve been needing a new setup anyway. Barrel issues should be across the board, so anything larger bore (over 30 cal) will be a no go for me.

So I just need to decide it i want a Cascade 204 and something else mid tier or one nicer something like a Cima CF in 22 Creedmoor. Or buy whatever I know I can turn around and sell easily and go a different route entirely.

Yes, but timing and honest communication really matters here.

Let's say there is a child car seat that is faulty, it breaks in a wreck and does physical damage to a child. Multiple wrecks show the same problem. Is it appropriate for the car seat manufacturer to wait several years while litigation from the first wrecks plays out, and allow multiple more incidents to occur during that several year period? Or would it be appropriate for them to immediately recall the car seats at the first sign of an abnormal reoccurring problem?

Additionally, let's say the car seat was breaking into pieces and not staying adhered to the seat belt because the plastic was failing. Would it be appropriate for that company, when they finally did recall the car seat with failing plastics, to say "we are recalling this car seat because a child can be injured if you don't buckle them in properly" and not address at all the fact that the seat is crumbling to pieces in a wreck? What if some parents think "well this recall doesn't apply to me, I buckle my child in correctly so I won't have the issue"?

What if some Paramount owners think they are using the product properly, not double loading or using the wrong powders, so there is no reason for them to turn in their dialed in Paramount, when in reality its failing when being used properly?

 

[robby denning]

I drilled my barrel out to .70, those tiny .50s don't hit hard enough for anything but rabbits

I did the same but then fluted mine. It’s so light now!

 

[ElDiablito]

I did the same but then fluted mine. It’s so light now!

Take the stock off too - that’ll cut a couple pounds…lol