CPW - ‘Righting’ some Wrongs

[Gapmaster]

I'd sure like to see how you came up with Colorado being 120% higher in tag fees than other states

Colorado $700.98
Wyoming $692
Montana $971.50
Idaho $651.75
New Mexico $548-$773 depending on tag type
Utah $800-$1000 depending on tag type
Arizona $650

This doesn't include additional hunt license fee, application fee which most other states add on, Colorado you don't have to pay the extra fee's with an OTC license.

Not higher than other states. I meant higher than residents. Which I’m fine with paying higher fees. I don’t live there. That is only right. But the percentages are extreme. They are extremely high in my home state for NR. If I was hunting state land or private land I would understand it a little easier. I know we won’t see eye to eye and that’s fine. But I sure hope that none of the people bashing NRs have ever or will ever hunt in another state. Because that would be a little hypocritical don’t you think? Yes there needs to be caps and limitations but I think there should be a middle ground. That’s all I’m saying. As outdoorsmen we can’t afford to lose opportunities in today’s political structure. We are a dying breed.

 

[Gapmaster]

Nice, a Colorado resident bashing thread. Wyoming folks are tired of them for sure, the resident bashing threads.
Remember folks it is settled law that state get to discriminate against NRs in license allocations.
Come on out and camp or hike, skiing is great also. To hunt you have to abide by the state's allocations and rules for NR hunting.
Tourism pays more to each state than NR hunting by the way.

I wouldn’t want anyone to think that I’m bashing residents. I’ve tried to be very respectful to residents of other states I visit hunting each year. There are unfortunately tons of NRs who show up and act like they own the place. More often than not it is likely places that residents have hunted or fished for generations and now they are “ruined” by over crowding by out of staters. I feel the pain and frustration. I deal with it myself quite frequently at home. This is obviously a touchy subject that needs addressing. I just hope that lobbyists and politicians will let the Conversation offices make the decisions without bias. But that’s probably too much to ask for.

 

[wind gypsy]

Not higher than other states. I meant higher than residents. Which I’m fine with paying higher fees. I don’t live there. That is only right. But the percentages are extreme. They are extremely high in my home state for NR. If I was hunting state land or private land I would understand it a little easier. I know we won’t see eye to eye and that’s fine. But I sure hope that none of the people bashing NRs have ever or will ever hunt in another state. Because that would be a little hypocritical don’t you think? Yes there needs to be caps and limitations but I think there should be a middle ground. That’s all I’m saying. As outdoorsmen we can’t afford to lose opportunities in today’s political structure. We are a dying breed.

I really don't understand the complaining about what is still the most generous NR allocation in the west. Residents wanting a higher allocation of their tags isn't "NR bashing" just like NR wanting a higher allocation isn't "resident bashing".

I'm not sure where the 120% higher number posted earlier is referring to. For reference, NR elk tag costs in MT are 3,219% higher than a Resident tag assuming 2 preference points needed. 120% would be deal of the century.

I burned 6 points on a tag in '21 as a NR that i think took resident 6 points to draw.. that's not reasonable.

 

[LongWayAround]

Nothing says Merry Christmas like opportunities shrinking and prices going up.



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Boo hoo.

Colorado is still probably the most generous non-resident opportunity state.

People want to complain about crowding. Then they want to complain about prices. Then they want to complain about not having a tag.

 

[Gapmaster]

I'm not sure where the 120% higher number posted earlier is referring to. For reference, NR elk tag costs in MT are 3,219% higher than a Resident tag assuming 2 preference points needed. 120% would be deal of the century.

The 120% came from my complete inability to perform basic math!!! I guess it’s like 1,200%. Basically a resident pays $57. NR pays $701. But that’s actually irrelevant to the original comments. I shouldn’t have even brought it up.

 

[Pro953]

Not sure why everyone is so wound up. It sounds absolutely reasonable. Certainly 80/20 is a fair balance of resident options ans still having out of state opportunity every few years potentially.

I do hate when wildlife departments try and make things more complex with more than six points/less than six points stuff. Just starts to make things convoluted.

Also the statement for unlimited OTC tags. Should we really have unlimited tags for anything in the west non-resident or resident.

Beyond this anytime folks says dramatic/click bare stuff like “righting wrongs” just sounds like cry baby stuff. Either way this is great compared to the direction many other states are going.


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[SoloWilderness]

80/20 Split is great. But they really need to go back to the system of putting in your tag money when you apply. Point creep really took off when they changed to just an application fee. It's pretty obvious that lots of people NR/R are applying for a tag they don't intend to hunt when the leftover list that had historically had 4-5 leftover tag returns after they drew out at 2nd choice now have 2 dozen on the leftover list. Units where a resident could always get a cow tag on 3rd choice now go out at first choice, but then a few dozen tags show up as leftovers. CPW has made a mess of the draw, ever since it changed from the DOW. Unlimited resident OTC/ Nonresident OTC with caps makes a lot more sense, to have some sort of control over the number of hunters in a given unit. We shouldn't get rid of OTC, I personally would prefer to have opportunity every year, even if I don't draw, but am not opposed to being forced to choose unit specific OTC tags, up to a cap. Except unit 81, make that unlimited, with a bonus tag for Texans...

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

No I’m not saying you don’t. But to ignore the influx of revenue that NR hunters bring would be ignorant. Obviously residents buy more goods and pay more taxes. I live in a semi “tourist” area and the revenue brought in by NR hunters and fishermen drastically help support tons of small businesses in our area. I’m just saying there has to be a middle ground. I see your concerns and they are relevant. But just because I don’t live in a state shouldn’t keep me from being able to enjoy federal ground and it’s resources in said state. There should be limitations no doubt. What those are? No state seems to have figured that one out yet IMHO.

You can enjoy the federal lands just like everyone else. Knock yourself out and go hike on them, camp on them, photograph animals and terrain on them, etc.

But if you want to hunt, then you have to deal with the state as they are the owners of the game.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

80/20 Split is great. But they really need to go back to the system of putting in your tag money when you apply. Point creep really took off when they changed to just an application fee. It's pretty obvious that lots of people NR/R are applying for a tag they don't intend to hunt when the leftover list that had historically had 4-5 leftover tag returns after they drew out at 2nd choice now have 2 dozen on the leftover list. Units where a resident could always get a cow tag on 3rd choice now go out at first choice, but then a few dozen tags show up as leftovers. CPW has made a mess of the draw, ever since it changed from the DOW. Unlimited resident OTC/ Nonresident OTC with caps makes a lot more sense, to have some sort of control over the number of hunters in a given unit. We shouldn't get rid of OTC, I personally would prefer to have opportunity every year, even if I don't draw, but am not opposed to being forced to choose unit specific OTC tags, up to a cap. Except unit 81, make that unlimited, with a bonus tag for Texans...

Unless someone actually has to front CASH, don't expect much benefit.

I can float a ton of money on tags/licenses without having to get clobbered by interest while waiting on the "not drawn" message and subsequent credit/refund.

 

[Hondo0925]

Thank you for posting!! I hadn’t seen this yet.

 

[tdhanses]

Residents aren't immune from buying gas, housing, or groceries. We also pay CO state taxes that non-residents are immune to . I am certain residents pump a whole heck of a lot more revenue into the state than non-residents.

Some of us NR pay CO property taxes, some more then residents do but yes residents should fund their home states financial obligations not NR and that comes mainly in the form of taxes etc, which taxes go to wildlife management, just curious really, seems like most states use parks and rec funding and hunting licenses to cover this cost of the state and not property/income/sales taxes etc, don’t all weed taxes go back into schools or mostly?

While residents love to say they pay taxes, what they pay covers modern day daily convenience for a comfortable place to live that entices more to live there and companies to operate there not wildlife management usually, most like living in a place they can get a job and isn’t propped up by welfare to the state, WY is a classic welfare state, low population and place with few high paying jobs, unlike CO.

If CO wants to follow WY I hope they repeal the income tax as well, would save me a ton of money in the future in tax savings.

But on point of the article I fully support this change that is already in place just hadn’t be updated, there should of been an annual review and update to the allocations the year it was put into place.

 

[wytx]

I really don't understand the complaining about what is still the most generous NR allocation in the west. Residents wanting a higher allocation of their tags isn't "NR bashing" just like NR wanting a higher allocation isn't "resident bashing".

I'm not sure where the 120% higher number posted earlier is referring to. For reference, NR elk tag costs in MT are 3,219% higher than a Resident tag assuming 2 preference points needed. 120% would be deal of the century.

I burned 6 points on a tag in '21 as a NR that i think took resident 6 points to draw.. that's not reasonable.

Well , pretty sure we've had both sides bashing each other lately, just go back and read about changes in allocations, not fair higher prices for NR etc.. Looks like bashing to me.
Not meant to be aimed at anyone in particular on this thread either. Wyoming residents have been called greedy for wanting 1st shot at leftovers and lower quotas for NRs.
Not hard to find both sides .

I know this if CO goes draw only for elk there will be wailing and moaning by NRs.

td,we get no welfare from Wyoming. jobs pay the wages and the state does not give us squat for free. You want resident perks, move in. We actually welcome folks to Wyoming. Bring your family and get a job here.

Bashing has begun.

 

[sndmn11]

Some of us NR pay CO property taxes, some more then residents do but yes residents should fund their home states financial obligations not NR and that comes mainly in the form of taxes etc, which taxes go to wildlife management, just curious really, seems like most states use parks and rec funding and hunting licenses to cover this cost of the state and not property/income/sales taxes etc, don’t all weed taxes go back into schools or mostly?

While residents love to say they pay taxes, what they pay covers modern day daily convenience for a comfortable place to live that entices more to live there and companies to operate there not wildlife management usually, most like living in a place they can get a job and isn’t propped up by welfare to the state, WY is a classic welfare state, low population and place with few high paying jobs, unlike CO.

If you have a big enough place you can enter the Landowner draw. Otherwise, you are just like any other person who owns property in multiple states and it has no bearing on hunting license allocation beyond where you claim to reside.

I don't believe any Colorado taxes go to "wildlife management" when a person files at the end of the year.

The person I was responding to claimed to pump money into Colorado towns while hunting; Residents do that same thing year round. I'd also believe that a disproportional majority of people who come to CO to hunt, are staying on free ground and bring their own food. Hunters are not tourists and don't "bring an influx of revenue" anywhere near what the non-resident folks want to claim.

CPW absolutely does not need the revenue from NR licenses; they have enough trouble spending their requirements as it is.

They are extremely high in my home state for NR. If I was hunting state land or private land I would understand it a little easier. I know we won’t see eye to eye and that’s fine. But I sure hope that none of the people bashing NRs have ever or will ever hunt in another state. Because that would be a little hypocritical don’t you think? Yes there needs to be caps and limitations but I think there should be a middle ground. That’s all I’m saying. As outdoorsmen we can’t afford to lose opportunities in today’s political structure. We are a dying breed.

I don't hunt in another state because of the immense opportunity here in CO. I don't give a hoot what your state does, because that is your business and none of mine. I surely wouldn't claim to have any rights that requires your state to find middle ground with me. If I wanted the rights of a resident of your state, I'd move there and forego the rights I currently have in CO. I choose not to do that because I don't care one bit about your state and your state has no reason to care about me.

You are hunting state animals, it doesn't matter if you are on private, state land, federal land, or county land. If I were to want to hunt another state's animals, I'd be thankful and play by their rules without complaint because I could always choose not to do so and hang out in my own state.

 

[Gapmaster]

If you have a big enough place you can enter the Landowner draw. Otherwise, you are just like any other person who owns property in multiple states and it has no bearing on hunting license allocation beyond where you claim to reside.

I don't believe any Colorado taxes go to "wildlife management" when a person files at the end of the year.

The person I was responding to claimed to pump money into Colorado towns while hunting; Residents do that same thing year round. I'd also believe that a disproportional majority of people who come to CO to hunt, are staying on free ground and bring their own food. Hunters are not tourists and don't "bring an influx of revenue" anywhere near what the non-resident folks want to claim.

CPW absolutely does not need the revenue from NR licenses; they have enough trouble spending their requirements as it is.



I don't hunt in another state because of the immense opportunity here in CO. I don't give a hoot what your state does, because that is your business and none of mine. I surely wouldn't claim to have any rights that requires your state to find middle ground with me. If I wanted the rights of a resident of your state, I'd move there and forego the rights I currently have in CO. I choose not to do that because I don't care one bit about your state and your state has no reason to care about me.

You are hunting state animals, it doesn't matter if you are on private, state land, federal land, or county land. If I were to want to hunt another state's animals, I'd be thankful and play by their rules without complaint because I could always choose not to do so and hang out in my own state.

Obviously you believe I’m crying or complaining. I’ve been hunting Colorado for 3 decades. I was just giving my opinion nothing more. Same as you. I believe there needs to be change for sure. Sad to see where things have gone.

 

[11boo]

We are still the only Elk state with a large number of units available OTC.

I would be happy to see it all go draw. All of it, every unit.

 

[Coveyleader]

Don’t worry CO will go 50/50 before it goes 90-10, take that to the DOW bank!

 

[nebhunt]

I would agree with others that Colorado should do away with all OTC tags. Make it a draw by unit.

 

[tdhanses]

If you have a big enough place you can enter the Landowner draw. Otherwise, you are just like any other person who owns property in multiple states and it has no bearing on hunting license allocation beyond where you claim to reside.

I don't believe any Colorado taxes go to "wildlife management" when a person files at the end of the year.

The person I was responding to claimed to pump money into Colorado towns while hunting; Residents do that same thing year round. I'd also believe that a disproportional majority of people who come to CO to hunt, are staying on free ground and bring their own food. Hunters are not tourists and don't "bring an influx of revenue" anywhere near what the non-resident folks want to claim.

CPW absolutely does not need the revenue from NR licenses; they have enough trouble spending their requirements as it is.



I don't hunt in another state because of the immense opportunity here in CO. I don't give a hoot what your state does, because that is your business and none of mine. I surely wouldn't claim to have any rights that requires your state to find middle ground with me. If I wanted the rights of a resident of your state, I'd move there and forego the rights I currently have in CO. I choose not to do that because I don't care one bit about your state and your state has no reason to care about me.

You are hunting state animals, it doesn't matter if you are on private, state land, federal land, or county land. If I were to want to hunt another state's animals, I'd be thankful and play by their rules without complaint because I could always choose not to do so and hang out in my own state.

Oh I agree it doesn’t give me a right over residents just saying the tax argument really doesn’t matter as it applies to other things then wildlife.

 

[tdhanses]

We are still the only Elk state with a large number of units available OTC.

I would be happy to see it all go draw. All of it, every unit.

It will in time except for otc units that are mainly private lands, just my guess.

 

[sndmn11]

Obviously you believe I’m crying or complaining. I’ve been hunting Colorado for 3 decades. I was just giving my opinion nothing more. Same as you. I believe there needs to be change for sure. Sad to see where things have gone.

I don't have an adjective for it.

There's no middle ground when you have no standing and nothing desirable. You, the NR hunter to CO, are replaceable with zero effort to the point that thousands of yous waste tens of thousands of hours trying to get a limited tag on leftover/reissue day. (Or I'm the case of Idaho recently, a tag on the first go-round)

The supply of yous is endless, and that's the result of successful hunter recruitment nationally.