CPW - ‘Righting’ some Wrongs

[realunlucky]

I’m asking a genuine question

What are you doing to change things in Utah to allow more tags for NR?

Utah is a 90/10 split so valid question. I applied both my oldest children for every single big game opportunity available to 12 year old and neither drew a tag thier first year applying.

Just using that to illustrate Utah has significantly less opportunity than Colorado. Reasons being two fold-- management priorities of quality over opportunity and that our drier climate habitat has lower carrying capacity.

All that said I have been very active in advocating for a shift back to managing the game for opportunity by eliminating the focus on reducing tags to increase age structure. Increasing opportunities brings more tags to the draw for residents and non residents alike.
While having multiple hours volunteering my labor for habitat improvement there's undoubtedly room for more involvement from me. Putting more animals on the landscape should provide opportunities to issue more tags.

I honestly support a 80/20 split which I believe would be a viable option with the return of expo tags to the state draw.

Speaking of the expo, there are multiple tags reversed solely for nonresidents. Also the standard draw for 200 tags does not distinguish between residents and nonresidents give equal odds to everyone.


Edit to add--
I am frustrated with Utah and thier nonresident tag allocation. With limited resident hunt opportunity I've had to expanded my hunting passion to encompass multiple states. It's truly shameful that I can't reciprocate the hospitality to my nonresident friends and family that help me hunt in states. I also worry about my children leaving Utah for better job opportunities and never being able to return for a family hunt. It's not

 

[svivian]

Utah is a 90/10 split so valid question. I applied both my oldest children for every single big game opportunity available to 12 year old and neither drew a tag thier first year applying.

Just using that to illustrate Utah has significantly less opportunity than Colorado. Reasons being two fold-- management priorities of quality over opportunity and that our drier climate habitat has lower carrying capacity.

All that said I have been very active in advocating for a shift back to managing the game for opportunity by eliminating the focus on reducing tags to increase age structure. Increasing opportunities brings more tags to the draw for residents and non residents alike.
While having multiple hours volunteering my labor for habitat improvement there's undoubtedly room for more involvement from me. Putting more animals on the landscape should provide opportunities to issue more tags.

I honestly support a 80/20 split which I believe would be a viable option with the return of expo tags to the state draw.

Speaking of the expo, there are multiple tags reversed solely for nonresidents. Also the standard draw for 200 tags does not distinguish between residents and nonresidents give equal odds to everyone.


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That’s fair, I ask because there are a few trophy units NR can’t hunt.

It also adds value for those who are advocating that other states change how they allocate their tags while also being a voice in their own state.

Nothing I hate more than people bitching about what other states are doing yet do nothing to change about their own.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[Lawnboi]

I think there’s a difference between not advocating for more nr tags in your own state and cheering on a state agency sticking it to the nr.

 

[sndmn11]

Just using that to illustrate Utah has significantly less opportunity than Colorado.

You have those bison though!

 

[tdhanses]

A honey hole for turkey on public land is more rare here than one for elk.

I’ve found turkey pretty easy to find, have had them walk 15ft from me in CO.

 

[fngTony]

I’ve found turkey pretty easy to find, have had them walk 15ft from me in CO.

Take that spot to your grave.

 

[tdhanses]

Take that spot to your grave.

Guess I should consider a turkey tag. Screen shot from a video.

 

[Rich M]

When you purchase a small game license, the result is you can hunt small game. You do not get a preference point.

You purchase a habitat stamp, you get to access state lands that are wildlife related. You do not get a preference point. You don't need to purchase a hunting license to purchase a habitat stamp.

You can purchase 10 habitat stamps and 10 small game licenses over ten years, and you will receive zero preference points. What you do receive is the privilege to hunt small game and access state wildlife land over those ten years.

Uh oh! I want to apply for Desert Bighorn, I bought my habitat stamp and small game license (because I was told those were necessary to get a point) but I didn't get a point! What happened? You don't get a point through purchasing a small game license.

I'd like to apply for deer, elk, moose, mountain goat, bear, rocky mountain bighorns, turkey and phorns, do I need to buy eight small game licenses so I can get eight points? Nope! I do need to pay eight application fees to obtain a preference point or license per species through the PRIMARY draw only. (Note that purchasing an application fee doesn't guarantee the result of a point).

I bought a small game license on April 1st, but didn't apply for any species in the primary draw, only in the secondary draw for elk. Where's my preference point? Hopefully it is clearer now...you don't get any point for purchasing a small game license.

Since it seems expenses are being sought after to inflate costs attributed to "purchasing a point", you don't get a point for purchasing/renting internet access to apply. You don't get a point for purchasing/renting a computer/device so that you can apply...even though both are necessary.

I cannot purchase a Pref Point without a “qualifying license” so the expense of the unwanted and useless license is added to the total cost. Sure its a separate fee but you gotta pay for admission before you buy the ticket to the ride.

Maybe if we use a practical example? It costs $25 to go to the fair. Then it costs $5 to ride the roller coaster. You want to ride the roller coaster at lunch and then go back to work, so it costs $30 to ride the roller coaster. Twist your head up as much as you’d like but your pocket is $30 lighter so that’s the overall cost of your thrillseeking. Sure tell your wife it was $5 and then she asks you to get some milk, bread, and eggs with the $25 you supposedly didnt spend. I know you dont tally your costs, my CC would do it for me. That is one expensive $9 tag.

Be better for CO to focus on organizing the Res hunters better than WY did and get rid of the OTC elk tags. You can learn from the WY 90/10 failures and not make those same mistakes.

 

[tdhanses]

I cannot purchase a Pref Point without a “qualifying license” so the expense of the unwanted and useless license is added to the total cost. Sure its a separate fee but you gotta pay for admission before you buy the ticket to the ride.

Maybe if we use a practical example? It costs $25 to go to the fair. Then it costs $5 to ride the roller coaster. You want to ride the roller coaster at lunch and then go back to work, so it costs $30 to ride the roller coaster. Twist your head up as much as you’d like but your pocket is $30 lighter so that’s the overall cost of your thrillseeking. Sure tell your wife it was $5 and then she asks you to get some milk, bread, and eggs with the $25 you supposedly didnt spend. I know you dont talky your costs, my CC would do it for me. That is one expensive $9 tag.

Be better for CO to focus on organizing the Res hunters better than WY did and get rid of the OTC elk tags. You can learn from the WY 90/10 failures and not make those same mistakes.

But there are many costs associated to getting a pref point in CO that are indirect yet required costs as well, bet you don’t add them into the cost. We require many things to get an to the desired outcome.

 

[cnelk]

I’ve attended professional sports events and had to pay admission. Without any possible return on my investment - other than entertainment

Im sure many here have done the same.

Why the heartburn over qualifying licenses?

 

[tdhanses]

I’ve attended professional sports events and had to pay admission. Without any possible return on my investment - other than entertainment

Im sure many here have done the same.

Why the heartburn over qualifying licenses?

Don’t forget the 20% in bs fees on top of the ticket price plus taxes.

 

[realunlucky]

I’ve attended professional sports events and had to pay admission. Without any possible return on my investment - other than entertainment

Im sure many here have done the same.

Why the heartburn over qualifying licenses?

It would be more like paying to wait in a line to get in. As you are waiting the ticket taker starts limiting the patrons until it becomes apparent the event will most likely be over before you get admitted. Frustration sets in from waiting and realizing there's a good chance you wasted your money to wait in a line that's not moving.

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[SoloWilderness]

Option 3:

Everyone goes and makes use of their small game license. Walk around and grouse/squirrel/rabbit hunt, zoom around on utv all over forest service roads (with ohv permit of course).


Maybe popularize the solo backcountry grouse hunt.




I don't know what option I'll yet choose.

Well, grouse are good eating... The day I can get the wife to sign off on a week-long solo back country grouse hunt will be a happy day....

 

[tdhanses]

Well, grouse are good eating... The day I can get the wife to sign off on a week-long solo back country grouse hunt will be a happy day....

It’s pretty fun shooting them actually and man can they make you jump when you almost step on them.

 

[SoloWilderness]

I’ve attended professional sports events and had to pay admission. Without any possible return on my investment - other than entertainment

Im sure many here have done the same.

Why the heartburn over qualifying licenses?

Residents pay them too, so people getting annoyed like they are targeting NR only is kind of silly. It's just the CPW finding a way to squeeze a few dollars out of everyone, R and NR. Which, I honestly don't mind paying, as long as the money goes to habitat, or other wildlife related costs. But buying a small game/ fish combo instead of the fishing license I was going to buy anyway isn't a big deal. Colorado tags are pretty reasonable any way you look at it.

Point creep and increased fees affects everyone, and back to the original intent of this post, making some small adjustments to bring some units that have gotten out of alignment with the intent of the law, to the tune of a handful of tags here and there isn't "sticking it to the NR", it's just part of necessary management adjustments that should have been made several years ago.

 

[SoloWilderness]

It’s pretty fun shooting them actually and man can they make you jump when you almost step on them.

Isn't that the truth, more than a few times I've almost fallen off a mountainside when they light off right under my feet in the steep and nasty...

 

[sndmn11]

I cannot purchase a Pref Point without a “qualifying license” so the expense of the unwanted and useless license is added to the total cost. Sure its a separate fee but you gotta pay for admission before you buy the ticket to the ride.

Maybe if we use a practical example? It costs $25 to go to the fair. Then it costs $5 to ride the roller coaster. You want to ride the roller coaster at lunch and then go back to work, so it costs $30 to ride the roller coaster. Twist your head up as much as you’d like but your pocket is $30 lighter so that’s the overall cost of your thrillseeking. Sure tell your wife it was $5 and then she asks you to get some milk, bread, and eggs with the $25 you supposedly didnt spend. I know you dont talky your costs, my CC would do it for me. That is one expensive $9 tag.

Be better for CO to focus on organizing the Res hunters better than WY did and get rid of the OTC elk tags. You can learn from the WY 90/10 failures and not make those same mistakes.

It is only useless if you choose for it to be. Heck, let's change the perspective and figuratively add the application fee $ into the qualifying license amount. Now we just resolved the exorbitant preference point cost using a different lens. 👍

Free house with purchase of the view.

I'd tell my wife it cost me $25 to go to the fair. I'd tell her it was $5 to ride the coaster. That $25 got me experiences that I would choose to enjoy. If I didn't ride the coaster, would I get my $25 back? No, because that is the cost of going to the fair and everything I chose to make of it.

I also don't tell my wife that the popcorn at the movie theatre was $30 because it cost $20 to see Minions with the kid and $10 for the bottomless bucket. Paying $20 to see Minions is worth exactly that and I don't carry that over in assignment to inflate my perceived grievance with the popcorn scooping teen because I was shorted butter flavored topping.

My $6.99 shrimp skewer add on at the Outback isn't really $44.99 with a free entree and sides.

If you really want to trip some minds up, buy your combo license on 3/1 and come fish for a few weeks, then apply for the primary big game draw. You'll see a receipt only for application fees...but still no $ next to preference point.

Have you ever gotten a receipt from CPW that has a line item amount for "preference point"?

It would be more like paying to wait in a line to get in. As you are waiting the ticket taker starts limiting the patrons until it becomes apparent the event will most likely be over before you get admitted. Frustration sets in from waiting and realizing there's a good chance you wasted your money to wait in a line that's not moving.

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The line is still moving. You can choose from hundreds of fun rides to get on or keep waiting for X while behind those who have more "invested" without losing your spot.

Fortunately though you can keep growing your investment and hunt elk OTC twice in CO's Western half without any residency requirements, or an unlimited number of times in the eastern half...again, without residency requirements.

I don't understand the frustration/anger with all that opportunity in both the short term and the long term simultaneously. Are there other states that exceed that opportunity for NRs? <--(Genuine question because I don't hunt elsewhere) Does your state of residency treat you as well?

Back on topic:
Do you know which hunt codes are effected by the decision? I'm pretty sure it is much less than half a percent, maybe close to a tenth of a percent. I'd also wager nobody in this thread would have noticed if @cnelk hadn't spilled the beans.

 

[Jethro]

It would be more like paying to wait in a line to get in. As you are waiting the ticket taker starts limiting the patrons until it becomes apparent the event will most likely be over before you get admitted. Frustration sets in from waiting and realizing there's a good chance you wasted your money to wait in a line that's not moving.

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Now imagine when the people at the back of the line realize they're not getting in. They start complaining that its not fair that the people here first, at the front of the line, get in and we don't. They demand the rules of admittance are changed. They start posting on social media how unjust it is that people at the front of the line are admitted first.

In response vendor security tells the people at the front, sorry we can't let you in even though you've been waiting the longest. We are going to go through the line and pick people at random and let them in until the venue is full.

Doesn't seem right, but you can see how it relates.

 

[Jethro]

I'd also wager nobody in this thread would have noticed

You'd have lost that bet.

 

[sndmn11]

You'd have lost that bet.

Do you know which hunt codes will be changed? I haven't had time to go through them all yet.