CPW - ‘Righting’ some Wrongs

[cnelk]

Do you know which hunt codes will be changed? I haven't had time to go through them all yet.

See link - [everything is on the CPW website]

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2020/November/Item.12ppt-Allocation_Presentation-final_mailing-Brian_Dreher-DNR.pdf#search=80%2F20

 

[KsRancher]

See link - [everything is on the CPW website]

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2020/November/Item.12ppt-Allocation_Presentation-final_mailing-Brian_Dreher-DNR.pdf#search=80%2F20

I don't like anything that would limit my chances at a tag. No one does if I had a guess. But after looking at those options. That seems very reasonable to me no matter which option they choose.

 

[sndmn11]

See link - [everything is on the CPW website]

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2020/November/Item.12ppt-Allocation_Presentation-final_mailing-Brian_Dreher-DNR.pdf#search=80%2F20

Perfect, that's a great start!

 

[Jethro]

Do you know which hunt codes will be changed? I haven't had time to go through them all yet.

I also had not gone through all of them. I had actually looked more closely at deer vs. elk cause I thought I may be affected. Turns out none of the deer hunts on my possible list meet the criteria for the change. For elk I'm not even close to any unit that could change.

The link put up by @cnelk is a good one. Looking at it in more depth now.

 

[cnelk]

Anyone interested can go to the CPW website - type in '80/20' in the Search bar and have all kinds of info

 

[cnelk]

Another good source of info is to go to the CPW website, select 'About Us' > under Commission select 'Meetings'

Select the Dates of upcoming meetings > the select 'Agenda' or 'Rule Making Notice'

Here you will be kept up to date any new changes

 

[Rich M]

It is only useless if you choose for it to be. Heck, let's change the perspective and figuratively add the application fee $ into the qualifying license amount. Now we just resolved the exorbitant preference point cost using a different lens. 👍

Free house with purchase of the view.

I'd tell my wife it cost me $25 to go to the fair. I'd tell her it was $5 to ride the coaster. That $25 got me experiences that I would choose to enjoy. If I didn't ride the coaster, would I get my $25 back? No, because that is the cost of going to the fair and everything I chose to make of it.

I also don't tell my wife that the popcorn at the movie theatre was $30 because it cost $20 to see Minions with the kid and $10 for the bottomless bucket. Paying $20 to see Minions is worth exactly that and I don't carry that over in assignment to inflate my perceived grievance with the popcorn scooping teen because I was shorted butter flavored topping.

My $6.99 shrimp skewer add on at the Outback isn't really $44.99 with a free entree and sides.

If you really want to trip some minds up, buy your combo license on 3/1 and come fish for a few weeks, then apply for the primary big game draw. You'll see a receipt only for application fees...but still no $ next to preference point.

Have you ever gotten a receipt from CPW that has a line item amount for "preference point"?



The line is still moving. You can choose from hundreds of fun rides to get on or keep waiting for X while behind those who have more "invested" without losing your spot.

Fortunately though you can keep growing your investment and hunt elk OTC twice in CO's Western half without any residency requirements, or an unlimited number of times in the eastern half...again, without residency requirements.

I don't understand the frustration/anger with all that opportunity in both the short term and the long term simultaneously. Are there other states that exceed that opportunity for NRs? <--(Genuine question because I don't hunt elsewhere) Does your state of residency treat you as well?

Back on topic:
Do you know which hunt codes are effected by the decision? I'm pretty sure it is much less than half a percent, maybe close to a tenth of a percent. I'd also wager nobody in this thread would have noticed if @cnelk hadn't spilled the beans.

It is really just a diff perspective.

I just say it cost $30 to go to the movies or $X to go to Outback, and include the tip amount in my tally cause that’s what left my wallet - that’s the true cost to me.

At least I’m not mad or frustrated. You are mistaking me for someone who truly cares in some form.

I threw the future NR hunts towel in with the 90/10 stuff, booked a guided hunt to burn WY antelope points and let my mule deer points expire. CO was on the radar for an OTC plains elk hunt.

The 2023 guided hunt wraps up and slightly exceeds the $budget$ i promised wife for western hunting trips - including gear, travel, and such. Have all the gear now and even wall tent and heater, cots, sleeping bags for 4. Not sure what Im gonna do w this stuff now. Was hoping for 2 more hunts but one will do. Plus side is the guided hunt will likely be an exceptionally fun time w a couple buddies.

My state of residency -FL- has 23 million people and a few areas open for hunting free for all. Most of it is quota hunts. We have areas were double digit pref points are required - for deer and turkey -nuts.

Far as i know, if you wanted a NR deer or hog or turkey or gator license here your name goes in the same hat as mine. They issue say 100 tags per hunt for a 7,000 acre area and that’s it. Not differentiated by residency.

 

[sndmn11]

I also had not gone through all of them. I had actually looked more closely at deer vs. elk cause I thought I may be affected. Turns out none of the deer hunts on my possible list meet the criteria for the change. For elk I'm not even close to any unit that could change.

The link put up by @cnelk is a good one. Looking at it in more depth now.

That's kind of why I asked who knew the hunt codes that were involved. My unfounded impression is that people were feeling negative assuming their 2023/2024 goal hunt code (or all codes) were changed.

The link he posted is from a few years ago, so one needs to look at 2021, 2020, and 2019 preference points. It very well could be the same as that map in his link for the 2021 draw.

I might sit down today and make a spreadsheet if I don't find something more entertaining for nap time. I mainly want to see if my .5-.1% guess was close.

The bigger excitement would be to learn if the same change of data set years will apply to the hybrid draw. That would offer NR and R more "quality" opportunity while they bank points.


The fact that so many hybrid draw hunt codes are on the list but cannot be drawn via the hybrid draw is great evidence that the data set years needed to be updated.

@cnelk do you know if the hybrid draw will see the same updated data set years?

It is really just a diff perspective.

Absolutely it is a different perspective, and my point is that it seems to float around depending on how someone wants to skew and manipulate the information.

The same principal would be like if someone drew a deer/elk license and then got an "add on OTC" bear license (which requires the person to have the elk/deer license first) and then sees it as a free deer/elk license and a $1k bear license because they reassigned the cost in their mind.

 

[cnelk]

I haven’t researched the Hybrid Draw at all.

I have read once that only Residents have drawn the Hybrid tags. Can’t confirm that though

 

[Still Hunter]

Cnelk,
Thanks for the link. Look at what you started! ! 330 Post! 17 Pages!

 

[SoloWilderness]

Now imagine when the people at the back of the line realize they're not getting in. They start complaining that its not fair that the people here first, at the front of the line, get in and we don't. They demand the rules of admittance are changed. They start posting on social media how unjust it is that people at the front of the line are admitted first.

In response vendor security tells the people at the front, sorry we can't let you in even though you've been waiting the longest. We are going to go through the line and pick people at random and let them in until the venue is full.

Doesn't seem right, but you can see how it relates.

This is a reasonable analogy. The other part people seem to be forgetting is that people are free to draw out any time they want, it is their own choice to hold out for higher draw units... I will never hunt some units, any more than a NR will, once I burn the 10 points I've been accumulating, I will be hunting 1-2 point, 2nd choice or OTC. This is my choice. I won't wait another 10 years for a premium hunt. Am I bummed about it? Sure, but I've also had some amazing hunts in low draw and 2nd choice units, which also amazingly enough, hold lots of elk too...

 

[SoloWilderness]

It is really just a diff perspective.

I just say it cost $30 to go to the movies or $X to go to Outback, and include the tip amount in my tally cause that’s what left my wallet - that’s the true cost to me.

At least I’m not mad or frustrated. You are mistaking me for someone who truly cares in some form.

I threw the future NR hunts towel in with the 90/10 stuff, booked a guided hunt to burn WY antelope points and let my mule deer points expire. CO was on the radar for an OTC plains elk hunt.

The 2023 guided hunt wraps up and slightly exceeds the $budget$ i promised wife for western hunting trips - including gear, travel, and such. Have all the gear now and even wall tent and heater, cots, sleeping bags for 4. Not sure what Im gonna do w this stuff now. Was hoping for 2 more hunts but one will do. Plus side is the guided hunt will likely be an exceptionally fun time w a couple buddies.

My state of residency -FL- has 23 million people and a few areas open for hunting free for all. Most of it is quota hunts. We have areas were double digit pref points are required - for deer and turkey -nuts.

Far as i know, if you wanted a NR deer or hog or turkey or gator license here your name goes in the same hat as mine. They issue say 100 tags per hunt for a 7,000 acre area and that’s it. Not differentiated by residency.

You could hunt OTC elk in Colorado every single year if you wanted, it won't be much more than the cost of a tag, food and gas now that you have the gear. Plenty of elk get killed on OTC hunts every year.

 

[jayhawk]

I think an 80/20 split is a good thing. As Western hunting becomes more popular and accessible, it will be good to prioritize the residents over the non-residents. A lot of guys in CO and other western states who've lived there their entire lives will probably never be able to hunt moose, sheep, etc. because of tag creep from (mainly) more NRs applying there.

Also, even if CO does make all units draw only, and does away with OTC, I feel like those units will still be pretty easy to draw. There's a reason they're OTC . . .

 

[Rich M]

You could hunt OTC elk in Colorado every single year if you wanted, it won't be much more than the cost of a tag, food and gas now that you have the gear. Plenty of elk get killed on OTC hunts every year.

I just never worried about elk. Wanted a 4x4 muley - thanks CO. And an antelope buck - WY 2023, did does in 2017 and regretted not having the buck tag.

Otherwise, I’m good. Noone owes me nothing -and i owe noone nothing.

Still may do the CO plains elk, we’ll see if it happens.

 

[fishslap]

I just never worried about elk. Wanted a 4x4 muley - thanks CO. And an antelope buck - WY 2023, did does in 2017 and regretted not having the buck tag.

Otherwise, I’m good. Noone owes me nothing -and i owe noone nothing.

Still may do the CO plains elk, we’ll see if it happens

What would make you want to come all the way from Florida to hunt one of the most difficult areas for elk in Colorado, especially with the cost of the small game licenses tacked on?

 

[Billy Goat]

The same principal would be like if someone drew a deer/elk license and then got an "add on OTC" bear license (which requires the person to have the elk/deer license first) and then sees it as a free deer/elk license and a $1k bear license because they reassigned the cost in their mind.

I mean, that's a little backwards. I use to get a bear tag when I could, then it went free for all and cheap. I use to sit there and wait on the clock to get the OTC with caps at 3.5 times the cost they are now.


Now the bear license is an add on license, not a buy before you can apply.



If I wanted a damn bear license, I'd just buy a forking bear license. Cause I can.


Please show me where I can apply for an elk tag/point for the $8. I guess I'm just stupid, cause I can't find it. All of it requires other purchases that have nothing to do with that point.


I really don't care that much, I have spent money in a bunch of states, I just hate that the rules seem to keep changing. It has changed like 3 times in the past 5-6 years. Or seems that way.

 

[sndmn11]

I mean, that's a little backwards. I use to get a bear tag when I could, then it went free for all and cheap. I use to sit there and wait on the clock to get the OTC with caps at 3.5 times the cost they are now.


Now the bear license is an add on license, not a buy before you can apply.



If I wanted a damn bear license, I'd just buy a forking bear license. Cause I can.


Please show me where I can apply for an elk tag/point for the $8. I guess I'm just stupid, cause I can't find it. All of it requires other purchases that have nothing to do with that point.


I really don't care that much, I have spent money in a bunch of states, I just hate that the rules seem to keep changing. It has changed like 3 times in the past 5-6 years. Or seems that way.

The example of the add on bear license is the logic people are using to say they spend thousands on CO preference point(s). It's not a $800 bear license and a $0 elk license, it's a $100 bear license and a $700 elk license (for NR).

The application fee is $9.17 for a NR; from that you either get the license you applied for, or a preference point.

 

[Billy Goat]

The example of the add on bear license is the logic people are using to say they spend thousands on CO preference point(s). It's not a $800 bear license and a $0 elk license, it's a $100 bear license and a $700 elk license (for NR).

The application fee is $9.17 for a NR; from that you either get the license you applied for, or a preference point.
View attachment 495283

No. A bear license is 103.60. You can add it on, but you can purchase it separately.


A preference point is $9.17 plus the $86.50 you are required to purchase before you can then add the $9.17.

 

[Billy Goat]

I feel like you really failing on the sales tactic here.
Just call a spade a spade.


You go to Costco, you gotta pay the membership. Don't everyone get to pull up and pump that gas, but you can keep bragging about it being cheap even tho you don't recognize the real cost.

 

[fngTony]

This is getting far off the original topic of nr tag allocation.