Corner crossing…….again

[Q_Sertorius]

Correct me if I’m wrong but scotus most likely won’t rule on this unless another circuit court rules opposite the 10th?

Correct.

 

[nodakian]

If poor Eschelman's dimminution of value claim is accurate, potential realtor fees just took a hit. Big ranches are often priced as if the checkerboard public ground is only available for the private buyer's use.

 

[Jstumbaugh]

Anyone ready to take a big step and test it? In my e-scouting for this weekend I have a spot that would be great if I felt comfortable doing it.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

If poor Eschelman's dimminution of value claim is accurate, potential realtor fees just took a hit. Big ranches are often priced as if the checkerboard public ground is only available for the private buyer's use.

I'd laugh if a conglomerate sued him now under the same basis, lol. Even to just waste his time and money in court.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Anyone ready to take a big step and test it? In my e-scouting for this weekend I have a spot that would be great if I felt comfortable doing it.

You need to literally find the corner pin, I wouldn't want to be trying to do that on the fly in a hunt vs scouting it out well before hand.

 

[atmat]

You need to literally find the corner pin, I wouldn't want to be trying to do that on the fly in a hunt vs scouting it out well before hand.

Maybe a dumb question. But what if there isn’t a corner marker? I would imagine most corners lack a defined survey marker.

 

[AZ8]

If poor Eschelman's dimminution of value claim is accurate, potential realtor fees just took a hit. Big ranches are often priced as if the checkerboard public ground is only available for the private buyer's use.

I’d imagine there’s a handful a large landowners in the West not happy with him.

I’m reminded of a quote: “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”. - War Games, 1983

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Maybe a dumb question. But what if there isn’t a corner marker? I would imagine most corners lack a defined survey marker.

If we're talking mile x mile sections, I believe all 4 corners of those would have been marked at some time. Whether they still exist can raise questions. A survey marker would not be up for interpretation.

I'm not sure how this ruling would weigh in on corners without markers since there is variability with onx and such. The variability (in the absence of a survey) could be argued in both directions though (costs money to argue in court unfortunately or maybe fortunately if that means prosecutors put the onus on landowners to prove their corners).

Ultimately some clearer language on how to address un marked/unfenced corners would be nice. I am also not clear about fenced corners (say barb wire t post that won't support climbing on), do you get to crawl under/through the fence and touch the private land in doing so since the fence obstructed the path from public to public?

The ruling is a step in the right direction but some clear and reasonable guidelines sure would be nice in the long run.

 

[StupidLightweight]

My buddy and his dad corner crossed in WY this fall. Beforehand, they reached out to the game warden, sheriff, and prosecuting attorney to see if anyone would give a yea or nay on the endeavor. Surprisingly, the game warden was the only one who said anything helpful. He said if they found the corner marker, all would be good. Sure enough, they found it and crossed.

 

[wind gypsy]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of corner markers have disappeared over the past couple years.

Making the actual corner hard to find/access seems like a primary play landowners would have.

 

[StupidLightweight]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of corner markers have disappeared over the past couple years.

Making the actual corner hard to find/access seems like a primary play landowners would have.

Not to worry. I put up posts and locks to keep the landowners from stealing or concealing the corner markers throughout the state of Wyoming.

 

[sodaksooner]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of corner markers have disappeared over the past couple years.

Making the actual corner hard to find/access seems like a primary play landowners would have.

I would imagine that would carry a hefty penalty if caught.....if caught!

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I don’t see it as a win. I see it as a be patient. Somebody else is going to do it, get ticketed, lose and then take it to the Supreme Court. Where money will influence their ruling.

I hope I’m wrong.

 

[jtevanMT]

Supreme Court declines to take up landowner appeal in corner-crossing case

The U.S. Supreme Court has declined to consider an appeal of a corner-crossing case that’s been closely watched by public land hunters and landowner groups thro

nbcmontana.com

 

[roadrunner]

No real harm is truly being done by corner crossing.

These landowners are a bunch of crybabies is all...

 

[atmat]

I don’t see it as a win. I see it as a be patient. Somebody else is going to do it, get ticketed, lose and then take it to the Supreme Court. Where money will influence their ruling.

I hope I’m wrong.

I see what you’re saying. But the SC declined to hear the appeal. The 10th circuit is large and influential. It’s unlikely another western state would even attempt to prosecute a corner crosser now.

If they did, the court would have to rule in opposition to precedent. Then it would go to the SC, who already ruled in favor of corner crossing by virtue of declining the case.

 

[StupidLightweight]

Zero immediate harm is done by corner crossing, but it's naive to discount how many of these landowners feel. Calling them crybabies doesn't do it justice. I'm not agreeing with or defending them, but for decades, corner crossing wasn't a concern. Unless an ambitious hunter used a plane or helicopter to access public land (which I've done twice now), the landowners controlled all the access. That was their normal, and they got used to it.

With corner crossing now being allowed, I can see how landowners are upset and fighting to maintain the status quo. It's a losing battle, and you're correct in no immediate harm being done, but many of these checkerboarded private properties will go down in value. And if you've ever known a rich person, there are two things they don't like: losing power and losing money.

The older I get, the more I realize how contentious the battle for land access is. This year, our group accessed two parcels of landlocked public land by helicopter. One ranch surrounds this land. The female landowner was so upset that she said repeatedly, "If I can't have those lands exclusively...I will go up there and destroy that land so no one can use it."

Just think about that mindset. It's insane. Yet many believe that this public land is theirs, and if they can't have sole ownership, they're willing to burn it down so no one can enjoy it. Once you understand that mindset, you realize how far someone like Eshelman (and many others) will go to maintain control of these public lands.

 

[sodaksooner]

Zero immediate harm is done by corner crossing, but it's naive to discount how many of these landowners feel. Calling them crybabies doesn't do it justice. I'm not agreeing with or defending them, but for decades, corner crossing wasn't a concern. Unless an ambitious hunter used a plane or helicopter to access public land (which I've done twice now), the landowners controlled all the access. That was their normal, and they got used to it.

With corner crossing now being allowed, I can see how landowners are upset and fighting to maintain the status quo. It's a losing battle, and you're correct in no immediate harm being done, but many of these checkerboarded private properties will go down in value. And if you've ever known a rich person, there are two things they don't like: losing power and losing money.

The older I get, the more I realize how contentious the battle for land access is. This year, our group accessed two parcels of landlocked public land by helicopter. One ranch surrounds this land. The female landowner was so upset that she said repeatedly, "If I can't have those lands exclusively...I will go up there and destroy that land so no one can use it."

Just think about that mindset. It's insane. Yet many believe that this public land is theirs, and if they can't have sole ownership, they're willing to burn it down so no one can enjoy it. Once you understand that mindset, you realize how far someone like Eshelman (and many others) will go to maintain control of these public lands.

Damn, nice job using a helo! My brother and I were chatting about this last night. Good thoughts as well.

 

[tall]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of corner markers have disappeared over the past couple years.

Making the actual corner hard to find/access seems like a primary play landowners would have.

And if you've ever known a rich person, there are two things they don't like: losing power and losing money.

The older I get, the more I realize how contentious the battle for land access is. This year, our group accessed two parcels of landlocked public land by helicopter. One ranch surrounds this land. The female landowner was so upset that she said repeatedly, "If I can't have those lands exclusively...I will go up there and destroy that land so no one can use it."

Just think about that mindset. It's insane. Yet many believe that this public land is theirs, and if they can't have sole ownership, they're willing to burn it down so no one can enjoy it. Once you understand that mindset, you realize how far someone like Eshelman (and many others) will go to maintain control of these public lands.

Sad but true. I'm thankful for the guys who fight the good fight to keep public resources public.