Colorado wolves released today

[Jake Larsen]

Jake, I do have hope and am not throwing in the towel. I'd not post here if that were the case.
I just don't believe continuing to play by others' rules in rigged games.

Not meaning to come off as argumentative; we're on the same side just disagreeing with tactics.

No offense taken! I understand the frustration. I live right next to Yellowstone, trust me, I get it. I just don’t see another reasonable solution. If you’ve got one, I’m all for it! I think we should fight this battle on every front we can think of

For what it’s worth, in that podcast there’s a clear path laid out to victory. I came away from that conversation with real hope, but also with a clear view of how we COULD lose it all


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[spectrum]

I am going to point out to the people of Colorado. How dangerous it will be if a dog that had distemper got around those wolves. Wolves are not immune to distemper and it lives in the soil for a long time. It woud be terrible if an animal that had distemper or the soil from its kennel was to make it up near an wolf kill. It could wipe out the whole pack. So be careful.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. that would be a tragedy. Anyone have a female wolf hybrid in heat with distemper? Make sure she doesn't get loose up there.

 

[spectrum]

No offense taken! I understand the frustration. I live right next to Yellowstone, trust me, I get it. I just don’t see another reasonable solution. If you’ve got one, I’m all for it! I think we should fight this battle on every front we can think of

For what it’s worth, in that podcast there’s a clear path laid out to victory. I came away from that conversation with real hope, but also with a clear view of how we COULD lose it all


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Ha! Reasoning. There is no reasoning with the likes of people that push these agendas. People should know that by now by seeing what's happening to our country. I live near the Arizona Mexico border, that's all Ill say about that.

 

[Overdrive]

I still think if the Hunting community wants to make a splash it would take all hunters to boycott hunting in Colorado for a year or two and see how the CPW can function with half their budget gone. Now I know this would never happen but it would surely show CPW and the State who holds their jobs in their hands.

I personally will probably only put in for the species that I hold PP's for and hopefully draw out soon, no 2nd choice or OTC. then once I've drawn those licenses I'll choose to take my money to states that manage wolves with hunting seasons.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Ha! Reasoning. There is no reasoning with the likes of people that push these agendas. People should know that by now by seeing what's happening to our country. I live near the Arizona Mexico border, that's all Ill say about that.

Pray for Texas. It’s coming to a head

I wasn’t suggesting that the antis can be reasoned with. I was saying that winning the battle at the legal level is the most “reasonable solution” to my mind. I’m not ready to go to prison at this point.

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[Jake Larsen]

I still think if the Hunting community wants to make a splash it would take all hunters to boycott hunting in Colorado for a year or two and see how the CPW can function with half their budget gone. Now I know this would never happen but it would surely show CPW and the State who holds their jobs in their hands.

I personally will probably only put in for the species that I hold PP's for and hopefully draw out soon, no 2nd choice or OTC. then once I've drawn those licenses I'll choose to take my money to states that manage wolves with hunting seasons.

That would certainly send a message to CPW. Unfortunately, they’re not really in the driver’s seat on this issue. The antis actually WANT you to stop hunting in CO. That’s the agenda behind this stuff. They’re trying to break the N. American model of wildlife management.

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[dlee56]

I still think if the Hunting community wants to make a splash it would take all hunters to boycott hunting in Colorado for a year or two and see how the CPW can function with half their budget gone. Now I know this would never happen but it would surely show CPW and the State who holds their jobs in their hands.

This is an awful dangerous idea. I can’t emphasize this enough, the CPW isn’t a business it’s a state funded program that doesn’t exist to make money, only to serve the needs of the people. I live in western CO and work as an engineer for the DOT, I know how the state operates. All this would do is turn the “CO Parks and Wildlife” into the “CO Parks Division”, and show that hunting is not a priority for the state. A boycott would make it extremely easy to do away with all the hunting programs and hunting related CPW staff, removing hunting from the scope and state budget entirely.

The state can hardly prioritize funding programs that people NEED, let alone fund one that no one is using.

 

[Jake Larsen]

This is an awful dangerous idea. I can’t emphasize this enough, the CPW isn’t a business it’s a state funded program. I live in western CO and work as an engineer for the DOT, I know how the state operates. All this would do is turn the “CO Parks and Wildlife” into the “CO Parks Division”, and show that hunting is not a priority for the state. A boycott would make it extremely easy to do away with all the hunting programs and hunting related CPW staff, removing hunting from the scope and state budget entirely.

The state can hardly prioritize funding programs that people NEED, let alone fund one that no one is using.

Very well put. This is the deeper agenda behind the wolf reintroduction. It’s a fast track to break the N American model of wildlife management. Take away the funding, and the whole enterprise disappears.


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[Overdrive]

This is an awful dangerous idea. I can’t emphasize this enough, the CPW isn’t a business it’s a state funded program. I live in western CO and work as an engineer for the DOT, I know how the state operates. All this would do is turn the “CO Parks and Wildlife” into the “CO Parks Division”, and show that hunting is not a priority for the state. A boycott would make it extremely easy to do away with all the hunting programs and hunting related CPW staff, removing hunting from the scope and state budget entirely.

The state can hardly prioritize funding programs that people NEED, let alone fund one that no one is using.

CPW isn't doing anything for the wildlife as it is, over sell licenses just to make money over sound management. Had the conversation will them about a good harvest data mandatory check in and they said they don't know how they could do it and get all the data processed in a timely manner, are you kidding me?! MidWest states have been doing it for decades and have no issues. It's time for CPW to step up and show that they actually appreciate hunters and more than running some stupid commercials that say "hug a hunter"

Boycotting a state hunt for a year wouldn't show that hunting isn't needed I think it shows the opposite that they need hunters to function and have a budget to fund their employees and projects. Maybe we should show them that it is Dangerous to ignore those that pay the bills.

But like I said it will never happen.

 

[Jake Larsen]

CPW isn't doing anything for the wildlife as it is, over sell licenses just to make money over sound management. Had the conversation will them about a good harvest data mandatory check in and they said they don't know how they could do it and get all the data processed in a timely manner, are you kidding me?! MidWest states have been doing it for decades and have no issues. It's time for CPW to step up and show that they actually appreciate hunters and more than running some stupid commercials that say "hug a hunter"

Boycotting a state hunt for a year wouldn't show that hunting isn't needed I think it shows the opposite that they need hunters to function and have a budget to fund their employees and projects. Maybe we should show them that it is Dangerous to ignore those that pay the bills.

But like I said it will never happen.

Serious question, how would breaking the institution that manages wildlife help wildlife? You think the wildlife would just magically do better without a management agency? I don’t agree with all their priorities either. But to say that “CPW isn’t doing anything for wildlife” is a pretty ridiculous statement. Nothing? None of the studies, biologists, management programs, habitat management ect, is doing ANYTHING for wildlife?

The N. American model of wildlife management is the ONLY model that’s ever worked. Suggesting we should do something entirely different is a big leap. We better have a seriously good plan in place for a replacement.


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[dlee56]

CPW isn't doing anything for the wildlife as it is, over sell licenses just to make money over sound management. Had the conversation will them about a good harvest data mandatory check in and they said they don't know how they could do it and get all the data processed in a timely manner, are you kidding me?! MidWest states have been doing it for decades and have no issues. It's time for CPW to step up and show that they actually appreciate hunters and more than running some stupid commercials that say "hug a hunter"

Boycotting a state hunt for a year wouldn't show that hunting isn't needed I think it shows the opposite that they need hunters to function and have a budget to fund their employees and projects. Maybe we should show them that it is Dangerous to ignore those that pay the bills.

But like I said it will never happen.

You’re still thinking of the CPW as a business that can profit or get paid more as they make more money. Every state employee gets paid based on a preset scale that’s fixed no matter what and only have a little wiggle room based on experience. If the CPW brings in more money all that means is they have more money do put on the ground in the form of projects or hiring new employees to execute tasks.

It’s not their responsibility to “appreciate hunters” it’s their responsibility to serve a need based on participation. State funded hunting programs and jobs only exist because people want to hunt in CO and will pay to do so. I’m not saying a 1 year boycott would be the end of all hunting but it damn sure would make a dent. And if you think those state employees are a little incompetent now then take their funding away and see how competent they are.

 

[dlee56]

You’re applying the same logic as “defund the police” and it just doesn’t work. All you get is a worse product. The issue is in the system’s laws and regs which are established by politics. It’s not a restaurant with bad service. State employees don’t get bonuses and barely get raises.

I’m sure they are doing their best based on the handcuffs they’re given and can only choose to either stay and help how they can or just quit and leave the fate up the whoever they get replaced by. And you can bet they’ll be replaced by someone whose priorities are more aligned with the current administrations.

 

[mt terry d]

You’re applying the same logic as “defund the police” and it just doesn’t work.

Rooftop Koreans worked much better than the police.

 

[Overdrive]

Serious question, how would breaking the institution that manages wildlife help wildlife? You think the wildlife would just magically do better without a management agency? I don’t agree with all their priorities either. But to say that “CPW isn’t doing anything for wildlife” is a pretty ridiculous statement. Nothing? None of the studies, biologists, management programs, habitat management ect, is doing ANYTHING for wildlife?

The N. American model of wildlife management is the ONLY model that’s ever worked. Suggesting we should do something entirely different is a big leap. We better have a seriously good plan in place for a replacement.


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It wouldn't break them never said it would, just send a strong message that we are being overlooked, especially right now because of the political climate in Colorado.

Wildlife will survive just fine without human involvement. I'd bet wildlife would do better, but were past the point of human involvement we've already changed their habitat so much with development and recreation. Colorado Mule deer and Elk herds are down but yet CPW is still selling way too many licenses just for profit so tell me how that helps? And let's not forget the CWD studies where they killed off thousands of Deer in the name or Research only to find that the numbers are still the same 30+ years later and those Deer herds (1990's) still haven't recovered to pre CWD research.

CPW habitat management only affects the State lands they manage is has nothing to do with the Forest Service area's most hunters hunt, but that's a whole different animal dealing with the Forest Service.

I never said the N. American wildlife management didn't work. I just don't feel CPW has managed Colorado correctly for a long time.

Bottom line is CPW is driving a wedge between their agency and the hunters and ranchers in Colorado.

 

[cnelk]

We all know there are employees in the CPW that arent in favor of 'hunting'.

 

[Hnthrdr]

How many wolves have they released now? No plan in place to have seasons on the wolves?

Ugh.

The season on the wolves will likely never come, but if it does it’s going to be way way too late, like after a boat load of pets and people have had negative interactions, even then the city dwellers will spin the narrative I’m sure. Remember animals are never a nuisance until they are a nuisance to You… that’s the thought of the majority of the state these days

 

[Overdrive]

You’re still thinking of the CPW as a business that can profit or get paid more as they make more money. Every state employee gets paid based on a preset scale that’s fixed no matter what and only have a little wiggle room based on experience. If the CPW brings in more money all that means is they have more money do put on the ground in the form of projects or hiring new employees to execute tasks.

It’s not their responsibility to “appreciate hunters” it’s their responsibility to serve a need based on participation. State funded hunting programs and jobs only exist because people want to hunt in CO and will pay to do so. I’m not saying a 1 year boycott would be the end of all hunting but it damn sure would make a dent. And if you think those state employees are a little incompetent now then take their funding away and see how competent they are.

So is what you're saying is that state employees get paid either way based on a pay scale. Then they don't need license sale money?

Of course they're a business, they certainly aren't still around because they're losing money. Just look at them combining Parks with Wildlife years ago. Parks was losing money but Wildlife had a surplus, they made the business decision to combine them so wildlife carries Parks. They can tell you each has their own budget but Parks has never brought in a lot of money, until maybe this year with the Parks pass optional with vehicle registrations.

To say any State of Federal agency isn't running itself like a business is laughable they need the operating money to be around, thru fees, taxes and licensing.

I can say I certainly appreciate my customers, we hunters are just customers to CPW so if they don't appreciate my money then I can go spend it else where that's for sure.

 

[Overdrive]

You’re applying the same logic as “defund the police” and it just doesn’t work.

Defund the police was a racial and inequality issue, not the same.

 

[dlee56]

So is what you're saying is that state employees get paid either way based on a pay scale. Then they don't need license sale money?

Of course they're a business, they certainly aren't still around because they're losing money. Just look at them combining Parks with Wildlife years ago. Parks was losing money but Wildlife had a surplus, they made the business decision to combine them so wildlife carries Parks. They can tell you each has their own budget but Parks has never brought in a lot of money, until maybe this year with the Parks pass optional with vehicle registrations.

To say any State of Federal agency isn't running itself like a business is laughable they need the operating money to be around, thru fees, taxes and licensing.

I can say I certainly appreciate my customers, we hunters are just customers to CPW so if they don't appreciate my money then I can go spend it else where that's for sure.

I think we’re miscommunicating a bit. To think governments ARE ran like businesses is laughable. I don’t know about you but I pay my taxes because I’m compelled to, not because I think the government is doing a great job and so they deserve my money. Businesses exist because there’s a market for them, their goal is to make a profit and reward their owners and employees as such. Government agencies aren’t trying to make a profit, and in no way reward their employees or executives monetarily on good tax/license sale years. Govt agencies actually do their best to spend as much of their budget as they reasonably can to prove that their service necessitates it (use it or lose it), whereas businesses try to maximize profit (spend the least amount of money possible while still supplying a good service/product)

I’m saying that state employees get paid on a scale and that’s why they do need license sale money. You’re the one advocating for a boycott.
Boycott = no license sale money = no pool of money to pay for hunting related services/employees, thus they are shut down. If no one used roads and no one registered their cars do you expect the government to suddenly redo all the highways and start incredible maintenance programs?

I suppose they are ran similarly to a business in the fact that they need to sell licenses and collect taxes in order to provide services and opportunities. But on the other hand, unlike a business, a boycott would show that they aren’t necessary. It would not entice better services and opportunity.

To put it simply, if we want hunter interests to be looked after then hunter money needs to be present in the pot. If there’s no hunter money in the pot then why would the state be incentivized to provide hunting related services and opportunities?

If you want bird watchers, tourists, and other non-consumptive users to be the main revenue stream and therefore be the primary survey/opinion base for CPW decision making then go ahead with your boycott.

 

[dlee56]

Defund the police was a racial and inequality issue, not the same.

No it’s not the same issue, but you’re trying to put the same bandaid on it.
“The police suck so stop funding them”
“The CPW sucks so stop funding them”

It’s much more nuanced than that.