Colorado Wolf Introduction is getting REAL political

[WCB]

Ahhh, if only it were that easy. I know guys who are trapping that have over 120 days on sets out before connecting. Hunting is far less effective than trapping. Lot easier said than done. I don't even want to add up my fuel and gear expenses on my line for this year.

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Again, why I said I know it isn't easy...I sat for 14days straight over bait and did not seen a wolf. Did see a few fresh tracks in the immediate area (300yds from the bait) walking right over my tracks . A week later someone else comes in and kills one 1st day same spot. But again...out of all the hunters (and I'll include trappers) that complain about wolves and elk numbers how many are actually targeting wolves? Can you tell me that if more guys took it seriously and even lets say 10% of the really serious experienced hunters that bitch but don't do anything about it started targeting wolves, more wouldn't be killed?

Numbers I have been seeing is around 45-50,000 wolf licenses sold in 21...out of those estimated 72 killed more than 1 wolf. I'm not taking away that some guys you know spent 120days before getting one but those numbers tell me VERY FEW are targeting them.

You are right, few get after them here. As @sneaky posted, they are damn hard and expensive to chase down. There really aren't that many folks that have the means to actually get out to where they are in the winter. Sleds or a track machine is almost a necessity. They are a formidable opponent for sure and nothing short of a disease breakout will put a dent in the population

The amount of mountain sleds or just snowmobiles in general and the atv/utvs parked at trail heads being pulled by $50,000+ vehicles tell me different. a guy can buy a used in good condition sleds for a few thousand bucks if need. It is priorities I get it...but if you aren't going to do anything about it don't bitch about it. An ecaller, some hand calls and your deer rifle are all that is needed.

Also, in ID isn't the open all year? Seems like a lot of time with little to no snow to worry about.

 

[WCB]

Don't know your background, experience, location or anything but as a hunter, to sit on that fence that hunters don't go hunt them so its the hunter's own fault the wolves are out of control is just bad because it divides us. And it's an argument used all the time when people complain about wolves.

Wolves got dropped in the west with clear criteria as we all know. Now we're where we are and an additional state, Colorado, is trying to get in on the action. Bottom line is again, Hunting doesn't do it when it comes to managing the population to the targets outlined.

The crux of the situation is that when you note an opinion that hunters are lazy, don't go out and hunt them, don't put effort in to get them etc., you're actually highlighting the point that hunting doesn't get the job done on controlling them...because the average hunter who hunts elk and deer, sees wolves crushing the populations in specific drainages is not able to kill a wolf or four. Its the reality and the reality equates to hunters not being able to put a dent in the populations.

My point is hunting/trapping (I should have included trapping in all of this) CAN help put a dent in the population if the effort is there even if locally. Yes, I understand there is a crap ton of other things involved and hunters/trappers mostly didn't ask for it and are not sole owners of the blame. But again, and I know a bunch personally, the fact is the vast majority of die hard elk and deer hunters that complain about wolves eating their elk don't actually go after wolves and put any effort in to kill one. I guess my main point is don't complain about a problem unless you put in effort to help with the solution. Same can be said as people have pointed out with comment periods, boards, review groups. I hear it time and time again that hunters didn't show up...but sure as hell guys will bitch about the things talked about or mentioned in the meeting notes of a meeting they didn't attend and never will.

Not that I want to get into it but the "hunters have to stick together through anything" is complete B.S. Also, if anything my position is to get guys off their ass and try and go the very thing you complain about.

 

[Hnthrdr]

My point is hunting/trapping (I should have included trapping in all of this) CAN help put a dent in the population if the effort is there even if locally. Yes, I understand there is a crap ton of other things involved and hunters/trappers mostly didn't ask for it and are not sole owners of the blame. But again, and I know a bunch personally, the fact is the vast majority of die hard elk and deer hunters that complain about wolves eating their elk don't actually go after wolves and put any effort in to kill one. I guess my main point is don't complain about a problem unless you put in effort to help with the solution. Same can be said as people have pointed out with comment periods, boards, review groups. I hear it time and time again that hunters didn't show up...but sure as hell guys will bitch about the things talked about or mentioned in the meeting notes of a meeting they didn't attend and never will.

Not that I want to get into it but the "hunters have to stick together through anything" is complete B.S. Also, if anything my position is to get guys off their ass and try and go the very thing you complain about.

I get it man, I wanted to start trapping a little bit here and there this year mostly for coyotes and bobcats to help the local Turks out and for fur… then you discover that Co only allows box traps and my style of getting back on foot becomes a whole lot less likely they have basically already killed trapping by banning all other traps

 

[wapitibob]

We killed it last year, but it was a road bump, once it’s on the ballot we are royally screwed Another thing to look at in state level politicians are currently trying to ban shooting in county unincorporated areas, Will effectively kill hunting in unit 29, 38… death by a thousand cuts… the west is getting domesticated one liberal politician at a time

And where is the initiative to preserve hunting??

That's my point, we sit back and react. Same here in OR. We lost bait and hounds to an initiative petition 30 years ago and not a single attempt to overturn by the same means. A cpl attempts in the Legislature that were done before they started. When I asked about an initiative to one of the hunt groups all I got was excuses.

 

[Customweld]

And where is the initiative to preserve hunting??

That's my point, we sit back and react. Same here in OR. We lost bait and hounds to an initiative petition 30 years ago and not a single attempt to overturn by the same means. A cpl attempts in the Legislature that were done before they started. When I asked about an initiative to one of the hunt groups all I got was excuses.

Honestly, maybe we just don’t know where to start with an initiative. These NGO’s have fleets of young attorneys that work on these things all day long. I’m not making excuses, but most of us have regular day jobs. I’m a construction project manager, I have no idea where to start something like a legally bound voter initiative.

 

[Hnthrdr]

And where is the initiative to preserve hunting??

That's my point, we sit back and react. Same here in OR. We lost bait and hounds to an initiative petition 30 years ago and not a single attempt to overturn by the same means. A cpl attempts in the Legislature that were done before they started. When I asked about an initiative to one of the hunt groups all I got was excuses.

I agree it is a dream of mine to bring back spring bear hunting in Co… Lord knows our deer could use it, but like Oregon, Co is basically controlled by 1 party, I know the “good” rural parts still have more free thinkers but our population has doubled in about the last 12 years and it seems people moved here and brought their politics in an overwhelming way

 

[street]

Get your comments in.. https://engagecpw.org/draft-wolf-plan-comments

 

[SoloWilderness]

Get your comments in.. https://engagecpw.org/draft-wolf-plan-comments

Share this with everyone you know who hunts, cares about hunting or recreating in the back country. My wife doesn't care as much about the impact on game animals, but she certainly is concerned about the safety of our small children in the back country. We are already dealing with a booming lion population close to home, to the point where it is risky to leave a big dog out in the yard after dark, and have had an attack on a child in a neighboring community recently. Her concern about her families safety in the backcountry adds a valuable alternative stakeholder point of view to the debate, which is in support of lethal management if necessary. Get your significant other and friends to write in too.

 

[sneaky]

I’m not hip on how things get done, but I’ve been told that these groups somehow end up getting the campaigns and attorneys fees being paid for by the Federal government in a roundabout way. If so, what stops conservation groups from doing the same?

EAJA funds, Equal Access to Justice Act. It was originally intended for individuals to fight against imminent domain seizures and the like, but these groups figured out how to exploit it and get their legal fees paid for.

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[sneaky]

Again, why I said I know it isn't easy...I sat for 14days straight over bait and did not seen a wolf. Did see a few fresh tracks in the immediate area (300yds from the bait) walking right over my tracks . A week later someone else comes in and kills one 1st day same spot. But again...out of all the hunters (and I'll include trappers) that complain about wolves and elk numbers how many are actually targeting wolves? Can you tell me that if more guys took it seriously and even lets say 10% of the really serious experienced hunters that bitch but don't do anything about it started targeting wolves, more wouldn't be killed?

Numbers I have been seeing is around 45-50,000 wolf licenses sold in 21...out of those estimated 72 killed more than 1 wolf. I'm not taking away that some guys you know spent 120days before getting one but those numbers tell me VERY FEW are targeting them.


The amount of mountain sleds or just snowmobiles in general and the atv/utvs parked at trail heads being pulled by $50,000+ vehicles tell me different. a guy can buy a used in good condition sleds for a few thousand bucks if need. It is priorities I get it...but if you aren't going to do anything about it don't bitch about it. An ecaller, some hand calls and your deer rifle are all that is needed.

Also, in ID isn't the open all year? Seems like a lot of time with little to no snow to worry about.

How many have you killed in ID then? If you think it's as simple as buying a sled and getting a few hand calls, then why did you pay an outfitter to sit over bait? You thought it would improve your odds. You're right, lots of guys don't target them because when you run a trapline you have to abide by all check laws. You're literally married to your line at the expense of being able to do a lot of other stuff. The wilderness areas need help, you going to fly in in the winter and spend a few weeks targeting wolves to help? There's a reason that wolf success rates are below a quarter of one percent.

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[Davisjj8]

Wolf introductions are always political, no matter what state they're in.

100% fact

 

[sneaky]

Honestly, maybe we just don’t know where to start with an initiative. These NGO’s have fleets of young attorneys that work on these things all day long. I’m not making excuses, but most of us have regular day jobs. I’m a construction project manager, I have no idea where to start something like a legally bound voter initiative.

@Howl For Wildlife does. Maybe that needs to get rolling in Colorado for those guys. Beat them at their own game.

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[Okhotnik]

Some of us just aren't scared of predators.

Just afraid it will taken extra 10 years to draw a bull or cow elk tag like it has when they introduced wolves in Washington andjust limited non resident elk hunting in Oregon after they introduced wolves. ( Funny both states just enacted gun bans too) Maybe you should take up pickle ball in those years you cant draw a elk tag because wolves are too important for biodiversity or something they make up

 

[Hnthrdr]

Just afraid it will taken extra 10 years to draw a bull or cow elk tag like it has when they introduced wolves in Washington andjust limited non resident elk hunting in Oregon after they introduced wolves. ( Funny both states just enacted gun bans too) Maybe you should take up pickle ball in those years you cant draw a elk tag because wolves are too important for biodiversity or something they make up

I think wolves are cool, but I would rather be able to hunt frequently and not worry about herds getting destroyed because of complete lack of predator management coupled with humans altering the landscape so much that it aids in wolves moving and killing prey easier… ie roads, trails, development in areas of refuge or winter range to force game onto smaller tracts of habitats than to have wolves around. Our forefathers hunted, poisoned, and trapped them to remove them from the lower 48 for a reason, Co is about to find out why in a handful of years

 

[Okhotnik]

I think wolves are cool, but I would rather be able to hunt frequently and not worry about herds getting destroyed because of complete lack of predator management coupled with humans altering the landscape so much that it aids in wolves moving and killing prey easier… ie roads, trails, development in areas of refuge or winter range to force game onto smaller tracts of habitats than to have wolves around. Our forefathers hunted, poisoned, and trapped them to remove them from the lower 48 for a reason, Co is about to find out why in a handful of years

An apex predator, with a very high reproduction rate, put into the middle of the largest elk herd in the world with zero management plans. They will never allow any wolf management in left wing Colorado just like in every other democrat run state where wolves were re introduced. Cant believe some clueless "sportsmen" celebrate this tragedy

 

[cnelk]

 

[displacedtexan]

Just afraid it will taken extra 10 years to draw a bull or cow elk tag like it has when they introduced wolves in Washington andjust limited non resident elk hunting in Oregon after they introduced wolves. ( Funny both states just enacted gun bans too) Maybe you should take up pickle ball in those years you cant draw a elk tag because wolves are too important for biodiversity or something they make up

They banned guns in Oregon and Washington?

 

[Ralphie]

Once the wolves are well established in colorado it won’t be long and you’ll have a plague of ticks, brain worms, and never before noticed habitat changes that will wreck havoc the moose, elk, and deer.

 

[Alder_]

Once the wolves are well established in colorado it won’t be long and you’ll have a plague of ticks, brain worms, and never before noticed habitat changes that will wreck havoc the moose, elk, and deer.

And covid. Can't forget wolves started covid.

 

[LoggerDan]

@displacedtexan


you know exactly what he meant. Your snarkiness is getting pretty old. You possess the same type of sarcasm as a 12 year old girl. You never have anything meaningful or useful to add to the conversation besides your pithy one liners. It’s getting tiresome.