Colorado Preference Point Focus Group

[sndmn11]

I quoted you posting that the advantage of preference points was to predictably see when you will be able to draw and plan accordingly. "Like in line at the grocery store ". But you couldn't see them in line. Get it? A 7 point jump means you may never catch a unit you might have been a point from last year. Also possible redistribution of res vs non resident tags so on so forth. Its not as predictably as you claim.

No, I don't get it. The statistics of how many people hold each point number are notoriously and plainly listed every single year on the CPW website. Those folks didn't go from 0-X overnight, they were in line the whole time, longer than the people with a lower number of points, and there is no way around that fact.

The fairest way is straight up random everybody gets a single chance.

The entire purpose of points is to give an advantage

The purpose of points is to ensure everyone reaches the goal at some point or another. Once a person reaches the number of points required to draw that hunt code, then they are selected in, as you put it, the fairest way, by a random drawing of everyone who has equally waited their turn in line having the same number of points.

 

[5MilesBack]

The entire purpose of points is to give an advantage

The entire purpose of points is to establish "an orderly place in line" for all applicants.

Changing that orderly place in line would be like people camping out a week early for Black Friday and then 5 minutes before they open they decide to distribute random numbers to everyone for their place in line and limit it to 100 people. Then some schmuck off the street walks up right when they're handing them out and just happens to get number 1, while those that planned ahead and waited the longest got 125.

Had those rules been in place from the start, then that wouldn't be a problem......and nobody would have been camped out (for years in advance so to speak). However, the nice thing about CO and points is that the folks waiting in line can also "choose" to jump out of that line and use their place in line at a different store so to speak.......a store that doesn't have the same demand, or small limitations on how many get in.

The problem now though.......is that there are 100 times as many people trying to get into the first store, as they are allowing in. So obviously that just adds more years onto how long it takes them to get that close to the door to start with. And then you have a bunch of NEW folks that for some reason think they belong at the front of that pack that's been camping out there for years waiting for their turn. And yet at the same time, there are other stores that would allow them in if they'd just change lines. And then of course all the stores that allow anyone and everyone into without any place in line at all.......OTC.

And it doesn't matter how long someone has been in this game because you have plenty of folks like me that started 40+ years ago, and instead of obtaining as many points as we could.......we "chose" to jump out of that line and use our orderly place in line to jump to the head of the line for a place that didn't take a lifetime of points. And then continue that strategy throughout our lives pulling a lot of tags that didn't require a very high senior place in line like option 1 has. And all the while, our points dropped to ZERO every single time and we started over at the bottom of the pool again, just like a newbie that just showed up for the game.

 

[realunlucky]

The entire purpose of points is to establish "an orderly place in line" for all applicants.

Changing that orderly place in line would be like people camping out a week early for Black Friday and then 5 minutes before they open they decide to distribute random numbers to everyone for their place in line and limit it to 100 people. Then some schmuck off the street walks up right when they're handing them out and just happens to get number 1, while those that planned ahead and waited the longest got 125.

Had those rules been in place from the start, then that wouldn't be a problem......and nobody would have been camped out (for years in advance so to speak). However, the nice thing about CO and points is that the folks waiting in line can also "choose" to jump out of that line and use their place in line at a different store so to speak.......a store that doesn't have the same demand, or small limitations on how many get in.

The problem now though.......is that there are 100 times as many people trying to get into the first store, as they are allowing in. So obviously that just adds more years onto how long it takes them to get that close to the door to start with. And then you have a bunch of NEW folks that for some reason think they belong at the front of that pack that's been camping out there for years waiting for their turn. And yet at the same time, there are other stores that would allow them in if they'd just change lines. And then of course all the stores that allow anyone and everyone into without any place in line at all.......OTC.

And it doesn't matter how long someone has been in this game because you have plenty of folks like me that started 40+ years ago, and instead of obtaining as many points as we could.......we "chose" to jump out of that line and use our orderly place in line to jump to the head of the line for a place that didn't take a lifetime of points. And then continue that strategy throughout our lives pulling a lot of tags that didn't require a very high senior place in line like option 1 has.

Your wrong. Points were implemented to give advantage or preference if you would rather it be called that.

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[realunlucky]

No, I don't get it. The statistics of how many people hold each point number are notoriously and plainly listed every single year on the CPW website. Those folks didn't go from 0-X overnight, they were in line the whole time, longer than the people with a lower number of points, and there is no way around that fact.


The purpose of points is to ensure everyone reaches the goal at some point or another. Once a person reaches the number of points required to draw that hunt code, then they are selected in, as you put it, the fairest way, by a random drawing of everyone who has equally waited their turn in line having the same number of points.

Fairest way is your words not mine.

PREFERENCE literally means to have advantage think about it

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[svivian]

Fairest way is your words not mine.

PREFERENCE literally means to have advantage think about it

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are you saying its not fair to give preference to those who have waited the longest?

Does first come first serve not apply here?

 

[IDElkmagnet]

No, I don't get it. The statistics of how many people hold each point number are notoriously and plainly listed every single year on the CPW website. Those folks didn't go from 0-X overnight, they were in line the whole time, longer than the people with a lower number of points, and there is no way around that fact.

And if you can predict what year your target unit will jump 7 points you have a pretty good handle on when you will draw. Just like being in line at the grocery store.

 

[svivian]

And if you can predict what year your target unit will jump 7 points you have a pretty good handle on when you will draw. Just like being in line at the grocery store.

I just looked at the CPW website and still cannot find any unit that jumped 7 points in one year. Can you post which year and what unit?

 

[5MilesBack]

Your wrong. Points were implemented to give advantage or preference if you would rather it be called that.

Ya, preference by their "orderly place in line". Otherwise, who else would you give preference to?

 

[sndmn11]

Fairest way is your words not mine.

PREFERENCE literally means to have advantage think about it

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...because they were in line first, so they get preference over those who were in line after them. It doesn't mean they get the license because they still have to draw against those who have equal preference.

 

[sndmn11]

And if you can predict what year your target unit will jump 7 points you have a pretty good handle on when you will draw. Just like being in line at the grocery store.

So keep applying for it, apply for a different hunt code, or stop applying all together. If I see a line at the store 20 people deep, but another that is 4 people deep, does it take a rocket surgeon to figure it out?

 

[realunlucky]

are you saying its not fair to give preference to those who have waited the longest?

Does first come first serve not apply here?

Apparently first come first serve does apply in Colorado.

As for fairness- that is dependent totally on the rule standard, if the rules change than it's only "fair" to abide by new standard.

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[svivian]

Apparently first come first serve does apply in Colorado.

As for fairness- that is dependent totally on the rule standard, if the rules change than it's only "fair" to abide by new standard.

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I think the system has been plenty fair, I think this is more of a sustainability issue for our future generations wanting to hunt trophy units.

 

[cnelk]

Two things causes point creep.

1- is you just never know when higher point holders are going to settle for a lesser unit

2- tag allotment is reduced

 

[realunlucky]

...because they were in line first, so they get preference over those who were in line after them. It doesn't mean they get the license because they still have to draw against those who have equal preference.

Yes I understand that currently the advantage falls to those who have played the game the longest. Humans are selfish by nature so the question is this - Is there a better way?

I've had max points and benefited I've been random selected and benefited. Can't win if you don't play.


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[IDElkmagnet]

So keep applying for it, apply for a different hunt code, or stop applying all together. If I see a line at the store 20 people deep, but another that is 4 people deep, does it take a rocket surgeon to figure it out?

Enjoy your argument.

 

[realunlucky]

So keep applying for it, apply for a different hunt code, or stop applying all together.

This right here is the entire reason the system WILL eventually change. To many applicants to ensure waiting long enough will be rewarded with opportunity.

If your 12 this year you cannot live long enough to get PREFERENCE for a top tier tag.

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[Mighty Mouse]

If your 12 this year you cannot live long enough to get PREFERENCE for a top tier tag.

How do you figure? If you start at age 12 and live an average lifespan gaining a point each year, you will eventually reach the top tier of Colorado pointholders. The points needed to draw a top tier tag can't rise infinitely because everyone eventually dies.

 

[realunlucky]

How do you figure? If you start at age 12 and live an average lifespan gaining a point each year, you will eventually reach the top tier of Colorado pointholders. The points needed to draw a top tier tag can't rise infinitely because everyone eventually dies.

I guess your right if nothing changes. 1254 applications at 20 tags a year is a mere 62 years to draw IF there's less than 20 new applicants in their age group.

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[Mighty Mouse]

Some non resident units jumped 7+ points last year

What specific units/tags?

 

[sndmn11]

This right here is the entire reason the system WILL eventually change. To many applicants to ensure waiting long enough will be rewarded with opportunity.

If your 12 this year you cannot live long enough to get PREFERENCE for a top tier tag.

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You can hunt a top tier tag a few times per species before you are old enough to vote, and to can bank on that. You can also hunt a mid tier tag every single year for each species. If it were random, there's a chance to might not hunt at all. That's no fun for a teen.