Colorado Preference Point Focus Group

[IDElkmagnet]

Another straight random guy here.
If not IMO an unweighted bonus point system is the happy middle ground.

I would also be happy to see anyone with an male or either sex tag loose points no matter how they got it

 

[sndmn11]

COLORADO was one of the first states to establish a point system so obviously the first to have the weaknesses of such a system revealed. Simply it limits opportunity for those that choose to participate later on.


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Colorado has unlimited OTC licenses, it is the model for NOT limiting opportunity.

 

[realunlucky]

Colorado has unlimited OTC licenses, it is the model for NOT limiting opportunity.

Exactly why it's system lasted unchanged long as it did.



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[sndmn11]

Exactly why it's system lasted unchanged long as it did.



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I think the crowd saying they are losing opportunity because of sharing the field with other hunters are going to complain their way into less opportunity via license limiting.

 

[tdhanses]

That's what I would do; Oodles of family members would have cpwshop accounts, my 4yo kid would never hunt less than a 6 point hunt and every two years would get to hunt one more point higher. Heck, those family members might turn their tags back in and keep the points at the cost of $50 so the kid keeps getting cool hunts and cooler ones every year after.

Yup I’d have both my parents that are residents building points for me as a nonresident.

 

[Challis]

I believe almost every state would like to find a way out of Preference Point Purgatory and move to a system similar to Idaho. What makes this virtually impossible is the folks, like me, who have accumulated preference points and will not support a system without points.
My idea to transition to a non-preference point system is to allow applicants to determine how many of their preference points they would like to apply towards a controlled hunt. Lets say I have 15 preference points and I know the current system will be phased out in 3 years. I could elected to burn all 15 points in one year or a more likely approach would be to use 5 preference points each of the next three years. It may not be the premium tag I have been saving for but in would likely be a decent tag and I could actually hunt each of the next three years.
Maybe I am crazy but I think many hunters would embrace this idea when they factor in Point Creep.

 

[oswald2581]

The OTC system needs to be revamped to have a balance of opportunity and improve the overall quality of the hunt. There is too much money in unlimited OTC tags, which will make this argument tricky for CPW. Having the tags unlimited doesn't have significant impact to herd numbers, most areas with large herds have lots of private that the Elk move onto during hunting seasons. Even if you capped these tags, I would imagine harvest statistics would not change a whole lot. Only thing impacted is hunting pressure and overall quality of the hunt. Everyone complains about extreme hunting pressure, but that doesn't stop most people from coming back year after year. If there was a significant drop in tag purchases and CPW was losing revenue, they may consider changing, but until then they have a cash cow. A few of my thoughts:

• Residents and Non-residents can enter Limited Entry and use points
• Residents can purchase OTC tag if limited tag not drawn (No points).
• Non-Residents are on a draw for OTC/General tags, tag numbers capped depending on herd population. During the draw, non-residents have to choose Limited or OTC/General. Could be a limited entry 1st choice and OTC/General 2nd choice, but if either is drawn points are lost.
• Make OTC tags specific to a certain region or units to help with capping non resident tags and spreading out pressure
• Agree with what most are stating in working on the Leftover system and the utilization of points.

 

[sndmn11]

I believe almost every state would like to find a way out of Preference Point Purgatory and move to a system similar to Idaho. What makes this virtually impossible is the folks, like me, who have accumulated preference points and will not support a system without points.

I have never read anything that says preference points are a contract with the point holder. If folks are wanting to move away from preference points, they also should be willing to forfeit their own accumulations as well as all of anybody else.

 

[cnelk]

I believe almost every state would like to find a way out of Preference Point Purgatory and move to a system similar to Idaho. What makes this virtually impossible is the folks, like me, who have accumulated preference points and will not support a system without points.
My idea to transition to a non-preference point system is to allow applicants to determine how many of their preference points they would like to apply towards a controlled hunt. Lets say I have 15 preference points and I know the current system will be phased out in 3 years. I could elected to burn all 15 points in one year or a more likely approach would be to use 5 preference points each of the next three years. It may not be the premium tag I have been saving for but in would likely be a decent tag and I could actually hunt each of the next three years.
Maybe I am crazy but I think many hunters would embrace this idea when they factor in Point Creep.

That’s called Point Banking. That was tried several years ago by the CPW. Lasted one year

 

[Challis]

I have never read anything that says preference points are a contract with the point holder. If folks are wanting to move away from preference points, they also should be willing to forfeit their own accumulations as well as all of anybody else.

Thank you for the clarification, it is definitely not a contract. I am glad to see that you would be completely silent and okay with doing away with points even though you were one year away from a unit 201 tag. I am striving to be a better man.

 

[sndmn11]

Thank you for the clarification, it is definitely not a contract. I am glad to see that you would be completely silent and okay with doing away with points even though you were one year away from a unit 201 tag. I am striving to be a better man.

Maybe I am speaking up against the guy who wants to use his bank roll of points, and then bang the drum to do away with points the following year so everyone is back to zero with him?
Which perspective makes one a "better man"?

 

[realunlucky]

Thank you for the clarification, it is definitely not a contract. I am glad to see that you would be completely silent and okay with doing away with points even though you were one year away from a unit 201 tag. I am striving to be a better man.

People don't like the system as is, different people won't like the whatever the new system becomes either. Someone will be always be bitching about it that's the only certainty.

I like a transition to bonus points-- those the waited longer still have best odds but those just starting out have a chance to draw too.

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[sndmn11]

People don't like the system as is, different people won't like the whatever the new system becomes either. Someone will be always be bitching about it that's the only certainty.

I like a transition to bonus points-- those the waited longer still have best odds but those just starting out have a chance to draw too.

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Someone else said it before, maybe a few. I like preference points because I can plan with my family out a few years on who is hunting what and when.

I would bet that most residents of Colorado aren't really concerned with changing the current preference point system. Especially with the abundance of opportunity.

 

[realunlucky]

Someone else said it before, maybe a few. I like preference points because I can plan with my family out a few years on who is hunting what and when.

I would bet that most residents of Colorado aren't really concerned with changing the current preference point system. Especially with the abundance of opportunity.

Preference point unit cost is only a guess based on the value those before you placed on a tag. It's a sliding scale based on number of point holders vs number of tags issued.
Increased population and a decreasing quantity of sustainable habitat makes that predictability much less likely as time passes.

Talking strictly in odds percentages bonus points offer similar predictability using statistics. They also everyone a chance to just plain get lucky/unlucky.

Edited to add-- working with a lot of Colorado hunters right now and had this discussion on the job site. Really boils down to 2 things
1. How many points they currently hold
2. What unit they dream about hunting.

Example one good friend at work is holding out for 201 has over two decades of resident points and still has a few more years to wait. He likes the current system if you wait long enough your rewarded. His very own kid would like to see a change to some sort of hybrid system otherwise 201 isn't even an option in his lifetime.

 

[sndmn11]

Preference point unit cost is only a guess based on the value those before you placed on a tag. It's a sliding scale based on number of point holders vs number of tags issued.
Increased population and a decreasing quantity of sustainable habitat makes that predictability much less likely as time passes.

Talking strictly in odds percentages bonus points offer similar predictability using statistics. They also everyone a chance to just plain get lucky/unlucky.

Edited to add-- working with a lot of Colorado hunters right now and had this discussion on the job site. Really boils down to 2 things
1. How many points they currently hold
2. What unit they dream about hunting.

Example one good friend at work is holding out for 201 has over two decades of resident points and still has a few more years to wait. He likes the current system if you wait long enough your rewarded. His very own kid would like to see a change to some sort of hybrid system otherwise 201 isn't even an option in his lifetime.

Your friend's kid should read the regulations then, there already is a hybrid system in place. Keep it on the downlow though....

I knew 5 years ago when I would be able to use my pronghorn points (last year), I know I will be able to use my deer points this year or next, my wife next year or the next, the inverse is true for elk. She will get to use her phorn points next year or the next. It is a simple way of doing things just like when you are waiting in line at the grocery store, you have a good idea of when you will be up.

Conversely, nobody has any darned idea when they will get to play moose, sheep, or goats.

 

[realunlucky]

Your friend's kid should read the regulations then, there already is a hybrid system in place. Keep it on the downlow though....

Although it technically meets the definition of hybrid system it falls well short in the application

I get it, you really like the status qou but many others don't. I'll think you'll see that opinion represented in the focus group findings. Whether or not it makes an impact in founding a chance is what I'm waiting to see.

 

[IDElkmagnet]

It is a simple way of doing things just like when you are waiting in line at the grocery store, you have a good idea of when you will be up.

Except a lot of people were taking reservations in line that you can't see until they cut in front of you. Some non resident units jumped 7+ points last year

 

[sndmn11]

Although it technically meets the definition of hybrid system it falls well short in the application

I get it, you really like the status qou but many others don't. I'll think you'll see that opinion represented in the focus group findings. Whether or not it makes an impact in founding a chance is what I'm waiting to see.

I like the status quo because it is the fairest way of doing it. Everyone I know who hunts knows at least a few people who are maxed out on weighted points for moose/sheep/goats and have never drawn, and also knows someone who has drawn multiple times. Any form of random would have the same result and disenfranchised applicants.

Except a lot of people were taking reservations in line that you can't see until they cut in front of you. Some non resident units jumped 7+ points last year

So? The people who drew had more points that the people who didn't. Same way it was before things "jumped", 10 is better than 9, 9 is better than 8...those people who "cut in front" had been there the whole time ahead of those with less points.

 

[IDElkmagnet]

So? The people who drew had more points that the people who didn't. Same way it was before things "jumped", 10 is better than 9, 9 is better than 8...those people who "cut in front" had been there the whole time ahead of those with less points.

I quoted you posting that the advantage of preference points was to predictably see when you will be able to draw and plan accordingly. "Like in line at the grocery store ". But you couldn't see them in line. Get it? A 7 point jump means you may never catch a unit you might have been a point from last year. Also possible redistribution of res vs non resident tags so on so forth. Its not as predictably as you claim.

 

[realunlucky]

I like the status quo because it is the fairest way of doing it.

The fairest way is straight up random everybody gets a single chance.

The entire purpose of points is to give an advantage