Colorado Preference Point Focus Group

[cnelk]

Lets call the Weighted PP System what it really is... a LOTTERY system, like many want.

 

[5MilesBack]

Not with the weighted point animals.

You didn't specify the lottery draws for sheep, moose, and goat. Ya.......I'm sure there are LOTS of max point holders that would jump at that recommendation. As it is now, the majority of tags are given to applicants with less than max.

But giving a certain amount of guaranteed tags to max point holders would make those people that dislike the point systems even madder. They all want equal opportunity to draw tags regardless how long they've been applying.

 

[RCB]

My view is that we don't need more complexity. Any changes to the draw system will likely only make it yet more complicated and hard to understand. If anything, simplify it. Personally I like straight-forward preference point systems because they are easy to understand - but they allow for more planning and predictability than just a simple lottery. Now, to be fair, I don't much care about "dream" tags so point creep isn't really an issue for me, but I understand why others are bothered by it.

Personally I'd like to see a cap on OTC elk, but that's mostly out of self interest.

 

[452b264]

Probably because non-residents are the ones complaining about points. (reference the half dozen threads that one guy started to rally the whitetail hunters)

Personally I like Colorado's PP system because I know when I will get drawn. Example when I have 3 PP in CO I know I have a chance at drawing a tag and if not I will definitely draw a tag next year. This allows me to plan my hunts in both AZ and CO so I dont have any overlap. I like to take the entire hunt off for each hunt. If you dont have the points you dont draw .

What I see in CO and I lived there for a few years is the OTC elk tags, if and when they do away with it wont hurt my feelings one bit. Some areas are overcrowded and it has hurt my deer hunt more then once.

 

[Rich M]

why not just process the applications in the order they are received? If its important you apply right away, wait a week and get less priority tags. Simple, easy, cost effective.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

The CPW could easily get rid of OTC hunting. Deer tags used to be OTC. A great number of units would have high tag allotments for elk so they would still feel like a circus. This would not really help much with the point creep because there would be leftover tags.

What will affect point creep? Wolf reintroduction. Why? Because all the top point holders are going to be burning their points in lower tier units than they had planned so they will be "cutting the line" as some referenced. This point burning will be cause creep to soar but it will settle back down after a few years. They will be burning their points to have a better opportunity at a decent representative animal before they all get eaten by the new predators on the block. Sit back and enjoy the show!



This year I decided to apply for First choice elk license with the intent of drawing it. I am a resident and had 13pp going in to the draw. Unit took 10pp last year to guarantee a tag so my odds are pretty favorable. I also put in to use my bear points for the same unit as my elk tag. Find out in a couple weeks.

 

[npm352]

why not just process the applications in the order they are received? If its important you apply right away, wait a week and get less priority tags. Simple, easy, cost effective.

Because some people (like me) would be sitting in line at the CPW office for the next 11 months waiting to turn in their 2023 bighorn application in front of everyone else.

 

[Rich M]

Because some people (like me) would be sitting in line at the CPW office for the next 11 months waiting to turn in their 2023 bighorn application in front of everyone else.

Is what it is. You want it more than the next guy, so you might as well have it.

We have guys who line up 3 days before opening day. Other folks complain but they don’t want it as badly. Whiners. And no, it doesn’t mean that much to me, but maybe 25 years ago Ida done it.

first come first served separates thise who really want it from the rest who just like to go.

 

[ckleeves]

why not just process the applications in the order they are received? If its important you apply right away, wait a week and get less priority tags. Simple, easy, cost effective.

The system can’t even handle people going after a few thousand leftover tags without crashing, it would probably be about a month long process of getting it back online, crashing again etc. There wouldn’t be anything simple, easy or cheap about it.

Utah general elk is a disaster on the first come/first serve program and those aren’t exactly top tier tags. I wouldn’t mind watching them try it though, from a safe distance of course.

 

[npm352]

Is what it is. You want it more than the next guy, so you might as well have it.

We have guys who line up 3 days before opening day. Other folks complain but they don’t want it as badly. Whiners. And no, it doesn’t mean that much to me, but maybe 25 years ago Ida done it.

first come first served separates thise who really want it from the rest who just like to go.

Your idea of first come first serve is literally a pure preference point system fleshed out. Pure preference systems are a line people "sit" in for years to get tags. As weird and complicated the S/G/M system is in Colorado, it is better than just a first come first serve (pure preference system).

If there was a physical line each year, there would literally be people waiting in line for
weeks or months for S/G/M tags in front of CPW offices/headquarters. That is a terrible idea.

Why don't they just throw all of the tags out of a helicopter on top of a crowd of 50,000 hunters and let them fight over them? Or maybe hide them all over the state scavenger -hunt style and have clues so that only those who deserve them get them.

The system has it's flaws, but it is better than first come first serve, which is preference points.

Are you going to tell the guy with 30 years of points that all of the sudden you are "in line" first?

 

[Rich M]

I am for a pure point system. The guy who was/is first should get the tag.

Many folks feel entitled and want bonus points or whatever equal-odds lottery systems should have to physically get in line and wait.

The states keep changing stuff to favor the latecomers. Same thing killed black friday and the folks who would wait 2-3-5 days for a tv or something they couldn’t afford otherwise and then the folks who showed up at the last minute whined and they started handing out lottery tags to shut them up, screwed the guy who waited innthe parking lot. Same thing is happening.

It’ s bullshit. That guy w 30 points should be so far out front, but the states keep messing w the point systems in favore of the guy who has 0 chance. Pisses me off.

So, my answer is to physically get in line. It’ll suck for NR but we seem to cause most of the problems anyway.

Who cares how long someone sits there? They wouldnt do it if it had no value.

 

[CoStick]

I think it would be fine to blow up the system. Odds are the person with 30 points has been able to hunt every year here for the last 30. If they were actually unable to hunt while collecting points it would be different. Focus should be on the overall herd and experience/future.

 

[Family Man]

I've been applying for and saving up points for 20 years. Plan to cash in when I retire. If they change the system I want a refund. But I really want a Tag. Don't hurt the people who have been playing by the rules.

 

[TheGreek]

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2022/June/Item.19-PWC.Memo-License.Distribution.Focus.Groups-6.22-Final-Jonathan_Boydston-DNR.pdf

 

[dreamingbig]

Thanks for posting the summary from CPW. Changes are coming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ckleeves]

I've been applying for and saving up points for 20 years. Plan to cash in when I retire. If they change the system I want a refund. But I really want a Tag. Don't hurt the people who have been playing by the rules.

I agree, and I try to never get over a handful of points so it doesn’t benefit me. I just can’t get behind changing a system that guys have bought into for decades especially when the top point holders all filled out paper apps and mailed in checks for years.

The easy solution is no more A list tags in your pocket and a point in your account the same year. Hunt or point, not both.

 

[SoloWilderness]

I've been saving points for years, with a few units in focus. None of them are the 20 year tags, I'm hoping to pull a really good hunt every 7-8 years, with the opportunity to hunt every year, whether that's an OTC tag, a second choice tag, or a b tag off the leftover list. The idea of having your points burned for a second choice hunt is terrible. The tag wasn't good enough to use my points on it as a first choice, I certainly don't want to lose my points because I drew a second, third or fourth choice hunt, that I spent the time to determine the likelihood of drawing it in a lower position, by analyzing the draw results.

These hunts are not as good as my first choice hunt. First choice hunt, there's a good chance of a mature bull, and I would spend the points for that chance. Second choice hunts, while there is still a chance, it's much slimmer, the units just aren't the same quality, but I can generally get a legal bull, and fill the freezer. But would I burn my 6-7-8 points for them? Not a chance. So most people would only apply for their first choice, leave the others blank, and maybe hope to pick up a better hunt in the leftovers, or go OTC, which I wouldn't spend a single point on it, even though I'm confident I can kill an animal on an OTC tag. I have been researching and studying the draw system for years, in order to make the most informed choice come application time.

The only change CPW needs to make is to bring back the pay to play system. You want to apply, put up your money for the tag, upfront. Then get a refund and a point, with maybe a decent lower choice unit as a consolation prize. The current point creep is almost all a result of the change to the amount of money you have to commit upfront to apply. Units that had been 1 point to draw for the last 15 years went to 3-5 points in the aftermath of the change to the cheap bar to entry, within a year or two. It was pretty obvious if you have been analyzing points for any amount of time.

 

[Mojave]

10 points max no matter what points are straight, not squared or cubed or anything else

If you draw a tag for any male or female species your points are gone

You can only apply for one trophy species a year (moose, goat, sheep)

 

[Simmonsj15]

I've been invited to join a CPW focus group in a few weeks.

"Your focus group will discuss the topic of preference points. The purpose of these focus groups is to hear from resident and nonresident big game hunters about challenges and potential solutions they see with CPW’s license distribution approach and to help inform future big game season structure processes. This is one part of a multi-step process and your feedback is critical to improving the system."

I would prefer to come with solutions instead of just complaints.

In an effort to better represent all hunters (at least all well known Roksliders), I'm looking for any thoughts that I should present outside of my own little bubble. Feel free to drop some ideas here for me to bring up.

I’m an FNG, thanks for starting this. Hopefully it can help me get educated!