College Help

[Pony Soldier]

An option to consider: 1) select a number of schools of interest. Request copies of their cataloges.
2) select fields of interest. 3) compare the classes for the first two years in each of the fields 4) decide where you want to go for the first two years. You can focus on your field starting the third semester. You can choose the school by hunting and price.

 

[Marble]

There are very very few professions that hire based on GPA or the college the degree is from. Several studies have shown this.

My wife has hired engineers in all fields for over 20 years. GPA and the college attended never played a role in the company hiring someone. And this is a company that hires 2000 engineers annually.

There are some managers within the company who try to hire from the school they went to. But it's a very small percentage.

I have two in college currently. They will go to a state school, get a degree, and from there success will depend on them.

If my son expressed the desire to go to school in order to hunt as much as he could during college, I would suspect he wasn't as serious about college as he should be.

I went on week long hunts all through college and still got good grades, worked when I wasn't in school and partied my fair share.

But finishing college was #1 to everything else.

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[CodeMonkey]

There are very very few professions that hire based on GPA or the college the degree is from. Several studies have shown this.

My wife has hired engineers in all fields for over 20 years. GPA and the college attended never played a role in the company hiring someone. And this is a company that hires 2000 engineers annually.

Try getting a job fresh out with a Bachelor's from Tailgate U and/or an under 3.0 GPA at any FAANG company, Silicon Valley start up, or high frequency trading firm and get back to me.

Also, the labor market has been really good for engineering job seekers in the last decade or so, but that can change any time. Say I have two resumes on my desk for one opening. One went to a top five school and has a 3.4, the other has a 2.6 and went to a school I just learned has an engineering program. Who gets the call back first? Who has more leverage in salary negotiations (i.e., bigger chance of a competing offer I have to match)?

After the first or second job, GPA is generally never asked, but it's almost always a determining factor in getting someone started. Also, that first job will either open or close doors almost immediately. For example, I know of no one who has jumped from certain industries to fintech and vice versa. You start specializing and carving your niche, but that "niche" might be not actually using your engineering degree and going to meetings all day. Skills atrophy and then said "engineer" gets exposed when they make it to my round of interviews when technical questions get asked.

 

[KurtR]

Try getting a job fresh out with a Bachelor's from Tailgate U and/or an under 3.0 GPA at any FAANG company, Silicon Valley start up, or high frequency trading firm and get back to me.

Also, the labor market has been really good for engineering job seekers in the last decade or so, but that can change any time. Say I have two resumes on my desk for one opening. One went to a top five school and has a 3.4, the other has a 2.6 and went to a school I just learned has an engineering program. Who gets the call back first? Who has more leverage in salary negotiations (i.e., bigger chance of a competing offer I have to match)?

After the first or second job, GPA is generally never asked, but it's almost always a determining factor in getting someone started. Also, that first job will either open or close doors almost immediately. For example, I know of no one who has jumped from certain industries to fintech and vice versa. You start specializing and carving your niche, but that "niche" might be not actually using your engineering degree and going to meetings all day. Skills atrophy and then said "engineer" gets exposed when they make it to my round of interviews when technical questions get asked.

Do engineers take classes on how to make working on something as hard as it can be? Is that a technical question you ask?

 

[CodeMonkey]

Do engineers take classes on how to make working on something as hard as it can be? Is that a technical question you ask?

Oh, I know that type. When I was a younger man, I quickly learned that drawings and specs don't tell you anything and spent my time hanging out with maintainers in the hangar.

I also have many horror stories of design reviews.

 

[chasewild]

Like others have said, education should come first. He can hunt at any of those schools, the one best for his degree should be the choice.

One thing with Alaska to consider. There aren't many roads. A lot of hunting is done by air charter. As a college student it is going to be both expensive and time consuming to go out hunting.

My thoughts exactly. It’s not an easy state to hunt without time or money.


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[rtaylor]

I have come to the conclusion I did things the wrong way when I went to school. It seemed that class and my full time job to be able to pay for school took up so much time I rarely got to go hunting. I did always save a few bucks to fly to Colorado every year at Labor day to chase elk with a bow but I had to skip a couple of days of class to do it.

 

[IdahoBeav]

There are very very few professions that hire based on GPA or the college the degree is from. Several studies have shown this.

My wife has hired engineers in all fields for over 20 years. GPA and the college attended never played a role in the company hiring someone. And this is a company that hires 2000 engineers annually.

The #1 credential item for me when hiring fresh grads is the FE exam. I used to be satisfied with hiring those that had not yet sat for it but had plans to do so in the near future, but then we had problems with those that couldn't pass it. Now I reject every applicant that hasn't passed it, or I tell them to reach out again once they pass.

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[CJohnson]

If your kid is smart and a hard worker, let him do what he wants and let him take financial responsibility for it. There’s absolutely no problem with hunting/fishing through school. Think about how many college kids party, sit around and watch Netflix, go to football games, etc. You could easily replace that time with hunting/fishing and be ahead of the average student.

I’ve got a BS and MS in engineering with a 3.8 GPA from Clemson. Some classes were hard and required more study, but the majority of them weren’t that bad, especially if you have a friends group that includes upperclassmen in your major.

Your grades aren’t as important in getting a good job either, it’s more important to have a good network. And what better way to get a job where you’ll have opportunities to hunt/fish than networking with other kids who like to hunt/fish in college. Not everyone wants to be a cog at a fortune 100 company for 20 years so they can walk around in matching first lite during OTC archery opener asking everyone where the elk are because they don’t know what they’re doing.

Experiences > money

 

[Marble]

The #1 credential item for me when hiring fresh grads is the FE exam. I used to be satisfied with hiring those that had not yet sat for it but had plans to do so in the near future, but then we had problems with those that couldn't pass it. Now I reject every applicant that hasn't passed it, or I tell them to reach out again once they pass.

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So I asked my wife, and I was a little off. In order of priority for hiring engineering grads:

1. GPA
2. Extra curricular activities
3. Any athletic involvement
4. Any internships
5. School plays little role most of the time, but there are a few schools they recruit from more heavily due to the curriculum being more geared towards what they want.

PE/FE are not required for new grads, but will be required eventually.

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[KurtR]

So I asked my wife, and I was a little off. In order of priority for hiring engineering grads:

1. GPA
2. Extra curricular activities
3. Any athletic involvement
4. Any internships
5. School plays little role most of the time, but there are a few schools they recruit from more heavily due to the curriculum being more geared towards what they want.

PE/FE are not required for new grads, but will be required eventually.

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#2 i would have a long list for but im guessing cougar hunting at night isnt what they mean

 

[FatCampzWife]

Not to turn this thread into "Is SDSU a good school", but I am curious which degrees you think they lack in. I know a pretty diverse group, as it pertains to degrees, and all have been extremely successful in their careers. And yes that's with hunting and fishing all school year long.
And to say he could fall in with a bad crowd at SDSU specifically...well that's just ignorant. That can happen at any University, Trade School or no school at all. If he can't find good friends then it's his own fault.

SDSU rant over.

I'll add my .02 again as it pertains to the thread. You can go to a 4 year school AND hunt/fish/enjoy the outdoors. I know many successful people who have done that, myself included. It doesn't sound like he wants to go to an MIT or Harvard to be a big time engineer/programmer/lawyer/etc.. If we knew what types of programs he wanted to pursue this might be a simpler discussion.
Have him go somewhere he wants to be and is going to enjoy. Whether it's a 4 year, 2 year, or trade school. He won't be sitting in his dorm 24/7 studying. He could be hunting and fishing or...he could be downing a fifth of fireball, shotgunning some beers and raising hell with nothing else to

There are many SDSU alum that have great careers, & have gone far. I know a few who have not. I admire their pre-vet, ag engineering, nursing, & pharmacy programs. You are correct that "bad groups of friends" are everywhere, but now that I've had the opportunity to teach at a smaller, private school, I can say that the percentage of students that are enrolled at SDSU to party is much, much higher than my current employ. Perhaps this is true at all state schools, I don't know. I do know I see far better teacher to student ratios, instructor availability, student retainment, & completion numbers here, as opposed to there. If OP's son is a dedicated student, he'll have few problems anywhere he goes. If his main interest is anything other than school, he may struggle anywhere. A member mentioned how they had attended both sdsu & lati (a tech school), and the attendance standards were far higher at the tech school. This is very true. It"s easy for a student who has outside hobbies to miss a lot of class if attendence isn't mandatory, easier to just fade out.
I wish OP's son the best of luck. There are many, many paths to finding financial & personal contentment. Some paths are just longer & crappier than others.

 

[mooretitan]

We have talked a few times this week and he is starting to be open to a lower 48 college. I think he knows that with school all hunting opportunities will need to be close by and easy to get in and out of for times sake. We also talked about the possibility of a summer internship somewhere in Alaska so he can start to get a feel if that's somewhere he wants to end up for a few years. The plan this summer is to take a couple summer classes at the local JC, job shadow the best as possible a few different career opportunities, get a small part time job and start saving money.
I am thinking somewhere in Idaho, Montana, or South Dakota would fit the bill. He loves mule deer hunting but is starting to get into water fowl and enjoys upland bird hunting. He also loves to fish

 

[FatCampzWife]

We have talked a few times this week and he is starting to be open to a lower 48 college. I think he knows that with school all hunting opportunities will need to be close by and easy to get in and out of for times sake. We also talked about the possibility of a summer internship somewhere in Alaska so he can start to get a feel if that's somewhere he wants to end up for a few years. The plan this summer is to take a couple summer classes at the local JC, job shadow the best as possible a few different career opportunities, get a small part time job and start saving money.
I am thinking somewhere in Idaho, Montana, or South Dakota would fit the bill. He loves mule deer hunting but is starting to get into water fowl and enjoys upland bird hunting. He also loves to fish

If he chooses eastern SoDak, he should give bowfishing a try...lots of rivers within minutes of school with carp & catfish!

 

[cjdewese]

We had a good talk last night about a few options. Mainly being that Alaska really is probably not a great weekend/day hunt state and that a lot of things he wants to do will require boat/plane travel. That adds up pretty quickly. But he makes a great argument: when else in his life is he going to be able to do this. Even a good paying job the likely hood is that many of the Alaskan animals will be unattainable for non residents moving forward for someone just starting out.
I got him to think about maybe a lower 48 for college and have the ability to hunt and fish during winter and summer breaks. Easier for weekend hunts. His family could come see him more often. And after that he could work his way up to Alaska and work there a few years and chase the hunts he is looking for.
He more than likely will have to be in a Western State for a tuition exchange. We have talked about debt and cost. He knows it makes no sense to go in debt and get a degree that is useless.
As far as scholarship more than likely that will not happen. He has great grades and is very smart but academic scholarship are not something we are planning on. If it happens great. He knows he will have to attend a JC and work to save up money. My wife and I have a college plan for each kid but it does require them to work and follow the suggestions we make. If they want to go out on their own great but it will be on their own. I am not paying two years of undergrad class for him to just go a 4 year university.
I actually like where is head is in his planning for the most part. I think being young and not tied down is a prefect time to explore the world. There is enough time to settle down and make money. He is a smart kid he will do well in work when the time is needed. He also knows that money and time are going to be needed down the road to keep doing the things he wants.

To me I think the biggest talk that I wish my dad would have had with me when I 1st started was lifestyle vs salary.

What I mean, is think about the lifestyle you want to have 1st then find a job that will fit that lifestyle and support it financially.

College was great and I had a lot of fun, but I wish I would have focused on picking a worthy major 1st and understood how that was going to translate to the job world. Doing well in college for a few years sets up the rest of your life to be much easier.

I have a friend that knew she wanted to go into law and big law specifically from the time she was in 8th grade. Busted her ass and now works a job making 500K per year, sure it's stressful but to see how well their family is set up at such a young age is mind blowing.

Sounds like you guys are doing a great job of discussing some of this. If you have the right job, getting away for a few weeks or a month each year to hunt should be doable, if you never have the finances to do it then it won't matter.

 

[whoami-72]

My

My last forestry job paid well into 6 figures. I graduated with a 2.5 gpa

My point is some fields use academics as hiring criteria. Others fields don’t put as much stock and are more interested in what you get accomplished in the real world work environment.

I asked my buddy in law school if he was worried about his 2.2 gpa. His reply was it doesn’t matter whether he’s top of the class or the last in class. He still graduates as a lawyer. 25 years later, he’s a very successful one too.

For each it’s different. College was very easy for me. I often missed days in a row to hunt or fish. My GPA could easily have been in the mid 3’s. But, I chose to enjoy things equally.

I paid for it. The choice was mine and one I don’t regret at all. So, the choice was easy for me. I was still a forester and not once, government jobs aside, did I discuss my gpa during the hiring process of every forestry job I ever had. And, I never interviewed for a forestry position I didn’t get either.

Not really concerned with GPA. The point was more directed at the fact there are lots (not all) who get a easy degree and don't make much money off of it. Where as, the majority of harder degrees have a higher chance of making better money. There is always exceptions to the rule. Just take a look at Engineering or computer science average wages vs a gender studies wages after school.

 

[sconnieVLP]

There are many SDSU alum that have great careers, & have gone far. I know a few who have not. I admire their pre-vet, ag engineering, nursing, & pharmacy programs. You are correct that "bad groups of friends" are everywhere, but now that I've had the opportunity to teach at a smaller, private school, I can say that the percentage of students that are enrolled at SDSU to party is much, much higher than my current employ. Perhaps this is true at all state schools, I don't know. I do know I see far better teacher to student ratios, instructor availability, student retainment, & completion numbers here, as opposed to there. If OP's son is a dedicated student, he'll have few problems anywhere he goes. If his main interest is anything other than school, he may struggle anywhere. A member mentioned how they had attended both sdsu & lati (a tech school), and the attendance standards were far higher at the tech school. This is very true. It"s easy for a student who has outside hobbies to miss a lot of class if attendence isn't mandatory, easier to just fade out.
I wish OP's son the best of luck. There are many, many paths to finding financial & personal contentment. Some paths are just longer & crappier than others.

This is excellent insight. I was a TERRIBLE student my first semester of undergrad. Growing up I didn’t have to study at all to get good grades in HS, so I skipped a bunch of classes and spent too much time partying. Ended up with a 2.3 GPA that semester.

I got my act together after realizing I was going to throw away my chance at commissioning (I was on a ROTC scholarship) if I kept that up. Became focused on school and quit skipping class and got a 3.8 the next semester. Never skipped a class for the next three years and finished with an overall 3.6. Took me a long time to dig myself out from that first semester.

If it wasn’t for ROTC I’m not sure I would have even finished college. Having something to work towards by setting a tangible goal is key, otherwise it’s way too easy to just float along - particularly at a big school where no one cares if you go to class.

 

[jimh406]

I agree with those who say college shouldn't be about hunting. For most people, there is one time you can have the college experience and set yourself up for life. If that's not important to your child, then maybe they should skip going to college and get a trade/vocation and start hunting. There is nothing wrong with that. Of course, there are lots of vocations that make more than what a college education can do.

I don't know anyone who wishes they hunted/fished more during college, but I do know lots of people that wish they would have spent more effort making lifelong friends, and setting themselves up for the rest of their lives by either getting a solid undergraduate degree and/or masters/phd.

Furthermore, many peoples hobbies don't look anything like they did when they were teens/twenties. But, unless they want to do everything on the cheap the rest of their lives, it's important for them to start a great career after college so that they can afford their hobbies. Very few employers are going to be concerned with how much hunting you got done while in college.

 

[Quadzilla32]

You could advise him to go this route.....

Military, you get trained for a job(pick the right job), benefits, paid schooling, and depending where you are stationed you can be in CO, AK, or Texas.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Not really concerned with GPA. The point was more directed at the fact there are lots (not all) who get an easy degree and don't make much money off of it. Where as, the majority of harder degrees have a higher chance of making better money. There is always exceptions to the rule. Just take a look at Engineering or computer science average wages vs a gender studies wages after school.

That’s fine. My point wasn’t directed at you. I had never read your post until you quoted mine. But, I as I stated earlier, I totally disagree. And, that’s ok too.