Advice for son

[digger]

I say good on the boy for at least having the start of a plan.
Go downtown and pick up 10 his age,,there won’t be 2 plans in the group.
And good on dad too,,,,talk it over don’t over talk it.

 

[Rokbar]

Isn't there a pilot school in Florida? I've heard around $70K to be trained. It may the the same one the 9-11 highjackers went to, serious?? When I was in the army, a guy I served with had an Associates degree in auto mechanics. He put in a flight packet and was accepted for helicopter school. My neighbor retired a couple of years ago from flying for Fed-Ex. Got his start fly helicopters in the navy.

 

[Maverick1]

Can any of you who are pilots or know someone who is help me talk my son out of becoming a pilot. He is 18 going into his senior year and is looking at North Dakota University aviation school or Wyomings Mechanical Engineering School. He has outstanding grades and a good SAT score and not worried about him academically in either field.
He is leaning heavily towards aviation because of the pay difference. His life revolves around hunting and the outdoors and he believes being a pilot and the income they earn will help him achieve his hunting goals.
I have talked to him many times about life in general, family, friends and being a man. But this decision will be his. I am just a little more worried about diving into the cost of pilot school and then changing his mind. I want him to have his eyes open with whatever he decides.
So pilots out there if there is anything he needs to know or reasons he should avoid the career. Let me know.
He knows he will be roughly 150,000-200,000 in debt if he chooses being a pilot. But he also believes that by his early 30s he will be making 250,000-300,000.

Thanks to

I know of someone that went to UND for Commercial Aviation. Graduated about 10 years ago. He loved it there. Has worked his way up to regular airplane pilot / first officer for one of the big airlines now. Has quite a bit of flexibility in his schedule, makes really good income, and is very happy with his decision. In quickly looking at the cost of tuition, it isn't out of line with any other sort of four year degree. I am not able to speak to how pilot life aligns with work/family/life balance.

 

[D_Dubya]

Isn't there a pilot school in Florida? I've heard around $70K to be trained. It may the the same one the 9-11 highjackers went to, serious?? When I was in the army, a guy I served with had an Associates degree in auto mechanics. He put in a flight packet and was accepted for helicopter school. My neighbor retired a couple of years ago from flying for Fed-Ex. Got his start fly helicopters in the navy.

Embrey-Riddle Aeronautical University is probably the best known flight school, it is in Daytona Beach. 4 year program about $70k/year

 

[Whaledriver]

I will add a couple more things. Airlines do not care where you get your ratings or certificates from. A UND vs mom and pop flight school all have the same FAA standards. It comes down to experience (flight time) UND has a good program for the most part but they are not the only quality school There are other cost effective ways to go, get the same ratings and not be saddled with a massive debt load. Not saying it is cheap, but earning potential make it a good investment in my opinion.

Right now regional airline pilots make 100k starting out with various signing bonuses. After making captain, that can double. Very similar income to doctors and lawyers without 80 hour weeks and 8 years of school.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

First and most important thing I’ll say, the airline hiring firestorm you will read about online is NOT the airline hiring that is happening today. That window closed softly about 8 months ago. If he’s lucky he will finish flight school smoothly. There will be delays, frustration in scheduling/weather/ test days that get pushed back. The schedule at an airline CAN allow for time off and a great life outside of work but it is dependent on where you end up based.

I wouldn’t even discuss airline pay or airline schedules because he will have to endure 3-10 years of instructor/survey/tour pay in a HCOL area. Then he has to get hired by a regional. Pass his medical, pass a background check, and most likely hold a degree. If he can do this great his career has got him about 100k a year gone 18 days a month at a regional. Stay there for another 5-10 years minimum based on today’s hiring pool. While he’s there he will be learning a ton, enjoying beer all over the country, and looking down at the world planning his next hunt. If he gets the real world problems fixed at home on his 3 days off before he heads out for another 4 day trip.

I was lucky enough to have already found my wife but one thing I have noticed is mid 20’s to 30 year olds can struggle finding a long term relationship built on trust with them being gone as much as we are. Just my .02 cents.

I can go into more detail but in essence. If it’s his passion nothing will replace it, his heart will soak up the shitty parts and motivate him to push on, if it’s a financial goal there’s other careers like a successful plumber that owns his own business that gets the same time off. Keep the business small and take every fall off. A career in aviation is a gamble of health, he needs to go get a first class medical before he even thinks about doing this school, a gamble in the economy, and blinders to a social life while studying for his ratings.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

I will add a couple more things. Airlines do not care where you get your ratings or certificates from. A UND vs mom and pop flight school all have the same FAA standards. It comes down to experience (flight time) UND has a good program for the most part but they are not the only quality school There are other cost effective ways to go, get the same ratings and not be saddled with a massive debt load. Not saying it is cheap, but earning potential make it a good investment in my opinion.

Right now regional airline pilots make 100k starting out with various signing bonuses. After making captain, that can double. Very similar income to doctors and lawyers without 80 hour weeks and 8 years of school.

You on the 220?

 

[KevinInID]

UND is a great school, but it is expensive. I think one of the big benefits of going to a school such as UND (versus a local FBO) is they may assist with employment opportunities with placement at a regional airline.

The industry is cyclical. If he gets hired at a major on the front of the hiring wave, he will likely have a great career. OTOH is the industry is stagnant, so will be his advancement and compensation. Furloughs happen in the industry.

There are a lot of plusses that come with the job. Flying jets is cool. Rarely if ever see your supervisor. No office politics. Quite a bit of time off. Like said above, get to coach kids sports, be around when other fathers aren't. Weekdays off (great for hunting). Compensation is very good.

There are however some serious downsides that may or may not be an issue for someone. It may not be a factor for a young person, but as one gets older the career can take a toll on you. Time away from home and family. If you are junior you are not going to be home for Super Bowl, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's. You will miss holidays. Sleep is severely interrupted (not good for your health) and may become a factor as you get older. Hard to maintain a healthy diet on the road. May have to move to your assigned domicile or be faced with a commute (lots of time lost commuting). Health issues that can impact your ability to hold a FAA Medical Certificate. If you have a medical diagnosis that is disqualifying, you will be grounded and without pay. If you are employed by a major airline with good long term disability benefits, you will likely be OK. If you are at an airline with little or no LTD benefit, you will be faced with a serious financial challenge.

Don't want to be a downer, but would like to share some real considerations that may or may not be an issue for him.

 

[100percent]

Not trying to talk him out of anything just want him to have his eyes open to everything. I actually think being a pilot is a smart plan and I am sure he is very goal oriented and will make it work to accomplish the lifestyle he wants. He wants to afford hunts that I currently can’t and have the time off to go anywhere wants.
Whatever job he takes he will make it work.
The military is probably a no go. We have talked about it. his thing is he is not sure he wants to give that much time up and his biggest issue is having to fight a war he does not agree with. He has a very strong ethical/moral compass and if he disagrees with something he won’t go along with it.
When he graduates high school he is an adult free to make his own choices and build the life he wants to live. If he ask for advice I can give him both sides but don’t plan to influence him either way. Not my life to life. But it will be fun watching him try to chase this big dream he has. Heck he might even take me on a hunt or twin if he plays his cards right

It’s a serious commitment on the front end so, he needs to be dedicated to see it through. I am scratching my head today (or worse) as my junior in flight school just decided she wanted to change her major to aviation mgt/supply chain (fedex/ups) after I spent almost $100K towards her becoming a professional pilot! Not exactly money wasted but, the penalty is fairly steep if you change your mind mid-stream!

 

[Burnsie]

Someone has to be a pilot - how would I get to my vacation destinations.

Seriously, I work at a community college in central Illinois. with an aviation program that used to be part of the University of Illinois. It is well regarded and is more economical than most places. Not cheap - but a little better on the budget.

 

[gbflyer]

If I were a young person wanting to get into professional aviation, it would be, in no particular order: HELO, AG, SEAT, Meat Wagon. No way you’d catch me at an airline or even worse corporate.

 

[Predator_SD]

Younger generations ALWAYS think they will be making top tier salaries in their chosen field right away. Not sure where it comes from but it’s a complete fallacy.

The world has changed a lot no doubt but you still gotta pay your dues in the working world.

 

[TaperPin]

I was in the same situation and what sounded good to our son today may not be as fun a year from now when the honeymoon is over. If he was really serious about it we’d support his decision, but rides with his friends are fun while doing the work to be a good pilot and make a career out of it is actual work. What our son had the hardest time wrapping his head around was how to build hours to qualify for airline jobs. Pie in the sky “I will save up and work extra to pay for plane rental” sounds good on the surface, but writing out a yearly schedule to have a real world $$$ number shows what an uphill battle kids have and they are much better off if they are good at networking with pilots, can share rental costs with friends in the same boat, and have some hussle to work their way into good situations.

Someone can complete ground school and be tested before anything else. We signed him up for online ground school through Sporty’s and they have a package with a number of dodads for student pilots. A little searching and Sporty’s came up as a top online school, it probably still is. Anyway, long story short, he found a new girlfriend and never completed it. The best $500 we could have spent given the situation.

 

[fmyth]

Has your son watched the Trent Dyrsmid videos on youtube? Trent is a 50 something dude who decided he wanted a career change and went from zero flight time to regional airline pilot in less than 2 years. He documented his entire journey and included a breakdown of his costs. He did it for a fraction of what it would have cost at one of the schools you mentioned. Sadly he was diagnosed with cancer before he was able to make his first flight w the airlines.

 

[bigv]

I don’t know what he makes but my wife’s uncle is a pilot. I can tell that he gets paid well, been flying for about 20 years. He picks and chooses his own schedule and hunts more than anyone that I know.

Honestly, from the outside looking in, I would be talking your son into it.

I agree with this. Being a commercial pilot pays VERY well and they can choose their schedules because there is a shortage.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

Has your son watched the Trent Dyrsmid videos on youtube? Trent is a 50 something dude who decided he wanted a career change and went from zero flight time to regional airline pilot in less than 2 years. He documented his entire journey and included a breakdown of his costs. He did it for a fraction of what it would have cost at one of the schools you mentioned. Sadly he was diagnosed with cancer before he was able to make his first flight w the airlines.

This is the problem. The hiring wave has slowed. It’s cyclical. This is false hopes until the next wave.

 

[fmyth]

This is the problem. The hiring wave has slowed. It’s cyclical. This is false hopes until the next wave.

This video series lays out an alternate approach to getting a commercial pilot job saving time and thousands of dollars vs any of the big flight schools.

 

[RockAndSage]

This is the problem. The hiring wave has slowed. It’s cyclical. This is false hopes until the next wave.

Roughly speaking, how far apart are those cycles?

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

Roughly speaking, how far apart are those cycles?

Hard to say. Maybe 5-7 years if there isn’t an economic crash right before hiring starts. It’s based on retirement ages. Currently a huge population of pilots are hitting 65. But this current wave hired a ton of 24-30 year olds that have almost 40 years to sit in a seat and not retire.

 

[TaperPin]

help me talk my son out of becoming a pilot.

Is that more you’re nervous about aviation in general, or about his personality not being conducive for aviation?

My wife was just a nervous wreck thinking about the son who burned up his car transmission from not checking the fluid level, now flying a plane.

There are probably all sorts of good YouTube channels from bush planes, to that guy in Utah who built Draco, to regional pilots. We watched Broncolirio for his crash reports that describe what happened from his perspective as a commercial and small plane pilot. Accidents now don’t seem as random knowing more about what causes them.

It also helped watching 74gear for general commercial pilot stuff and he has a fun personality kind of like our son.