Climate change...deer numbers

[PLhunter]

A link to a URL with climate.gov.....I'm not sure if I could design a least trustworthy source.

Want another one? I mean the volcano thing came exclusively from social media. That’s been it’s only source so I can think of one at least less trustworthy. Also, the source links sources and studies. If you want you can look there.

 

[IdahoBeav]

I just don’t think people care enough to put much effort into even learning about issues, let alone taking action to help. The loudest critics are often the least informed. We had a guy get elected to the school board who ran on eliminating 100% of all funding for schools. He was quickly put on the budget committee so he could explain how to run a school with no money. Lol

Unlimited money contributions to politicians allows billionaires to buy the system for themselves and common sense is out the window.

Who on the anti science side has fought for more stringent scholarly standards for scientists to follow? Nobody. Who has been fighting for better research into an animal we care about, with a source of money to pay for it? Nobody. I doubt the state of (insert your favorite state here) has well funded departments after the cluster jerk of the little recession, Covid and now post Covid. Nobody cares enough to want to fund the government.

Science vs more money & power to government are two very different things. If no one cares enough to want to fund the government, that is due to seeds the government sowed (or wasted) themselves. They made their bed and earned their reputation.

The private sector has actually contributed in some way toward reducing carbon emissions, and the private sector can fix the problem. The government has done nothing but give the idea of fighting climate change a very bad name because every time they mention it, they want more money and more power. People want to save money. They want to lower their expenses, burn less fuel, etc., and they want to preserve the planet, but they know (and for good reason) that the government is not going to do this. The government wants to push a large and unrelated agenda under the guise of fighting climate change, and they have convinced many that they are the only thing that can solve the problem, but the truth is that they need this problem to exist so they can push their agenda.

Look at the main political affiliation of the folks that now enthusiastically buy Teslas. These are not the folks that support carbon taxes or other foolishness. Look at those that no longer buy Teslas but allegedly care more about climate change than the other group. This was largely brought on by an issue involving free speech and challenging government authority, which has nothing to do with the environment, but it does get in the way of a particular agenda. The media and one side of the aisle in Washington have been on a non-stop push to convince people that the guy and his company are a bad deal, but the truth is that he has done more to combat climate change than any one person.

 

[wesfromky]

That’s why I communicate it as it’s raw irrefutable components.

I think the effects will be pretty severe once the Oceans absorption capabilities slow due to concentration of dissolved co2. It’s going to vary but we’ve made our borders and cities and infrastructure based on these climactic conditions. That’s going to shake things up.

I think this is correct - the fundamentals of what happens to our climate because of burning fossil fuels is irrefutable. But, people get caught up in the politics of how to respond and things go off the rails.

I would also add that our global, just in time system of food supply is also going to see a lot of strain.

 

[Dos Perros]

Want another one? I mean the volcano thing came exclusively from social media. That’s been it’s only source so I can think of one at least less trustworthy. Also, the source links sources and studies. If you want you can look there.

Oh I've looked into it. I was just commenting on the link, which I found humorous.

 

[Dos Perros]

I think the effects will be pretty severe once the Oceans absorption capabilities slow due to concentration of dissolved co2. It’s going to vary but we’ve made our borders and cities and infrastructure based on these climactic conditions. That’s going to shake things up.

Let's assume we've made our borders and cities and infrastructure based on the relatively static (in relation to the time we've spent constructing them) climate conditions....don't you think we are capable of adaptation in the face of real perceivable conditions?

And lets also consider some of the severe effects will be severely beneficial. To mule deer, even.

 

[PLhunter]

The forage quality statistics during nursing from this were the most alarming part.

Forgive the audio at the start. It gets improved quickly. Also, yes, I suck at talking to a computer screen.

 

[Mag_7s]

Seriously though, has anyone heard their game departments use the climate change excuse? I'm genuinely curious if ODFW is the only one.

In regards to muleys I haven't. Other species, absolutely and fully support. I think it would be a very difficult metric to measure, let alone explain with any degree of confidence when other variables are explaining more of the response. I do think however climate change has an effect on summer range nutrient loads. To what degree this is creating density dependence and response I'm not sure, but I'm sure it's there. Just difficult to measure. I need to do some lit reviews.

 

[PLhunter]

Let's assume we've made our borders and cities and infrastructure based on the relatively static (in relation to the time we've spent constructing them) climate conditions....don't you think we are capable of adaptation in the face of real perceivable conditions?

And lets also consider some of the severe effects will be severely beneficial. To mule deer, even.

As humans as a whole species? Sure. But the migration crisis etc…. Will be devastating to civilization as a whole. The rate of change is what’s unique.

Not likely regarding mule deer or most wildlife. Some will benefit but rapid change is hard on any animal who is even somewhat specialized. Rapid climactic change has a pretty established track record of reducing biological diversity. If it was to be beneficial we would maybe be seeing it now as the patterns are shifting. They are not doing extremely well anywhere. Desert mule deer, mountain muleys, Great Basin muleys. Regardless of the localities predator management practices etc…. They are struggling.

 

[TaperPin]

Science vs more money & power to government are two very different things. If no one cares enough to want to fund the government, that is due to seeds the government sowed (or wasted) themselves. They made their bed and earned their reputation.

The private sector has actually contributed in some way toward reducing carbon emissions, and the private sector can fix the problem. The government has done nothing but give the idea of fighting climate change a very bad name because every time they mention it, they want more money and more power. People want to save money. They want to lower their expenses, burn less fuel, etc., and they want to preserve the planet, but they know (and for good reason) that the government is not going to do this. The government wants to push a large and unrelated agenda under the guise of fighting climate change, and they have convinced many that they are the only thing that can solve the problem, but the truth is that they need this problem to exist so they can push their agenda.

Look at the main political affiliation of the folks that now enthusiastically buy Teslas. These are not the folks that support carbon taxes or other foolishness. Look at those that no longer buy Teslas but allegedly care more about climate change than the other group. This was largely brought on by an issue involving free speech and challenging government authority, which has nothing to do with the environment, but it does get in the way of a particular agenda. The media and one side of the aisle in Washington have been on a non-stop push to convince people that the guy and his company are a bad deal, but the truth is that he has done more to combat climate change than any one person.

I just don’t see it - I just see people wrapped up in their flavor of politics - blame everything on the other side rather than push for workable solutions. The billionaires spend millions influencing what issues are kept in the media - to get voters fired up over issues the billionaires could care less about, but it gets their guy elected who then gives the big businesses huge financial breaks. The same happed at the NRA.

That’s all I have to say about that.

This is close to the same topic that got me banned for life at Accurate Shooter, so I’ll keep any other thoughts to myself.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Desert mule deer, mountain muleys, Great Basin muleys. Regardless of the localities predator management practices etc…. They are struggling.

Canary in the coal mine…

 

[Dos Perros]

As humans as a whole species? Sure. But the migration crisis etc…. Will be devastating to civilization as a whole. The rate of change is what’s unique.

Not likely regarding mule deer or most wildlife. Some will benefit but rapid change is hard on any animal who is even somewhat specialized. Rapid climactic change has a pretty established track record of reducing biological diversity. If it was to be beneficial we would maybe be seeing it now as the patterns are shifting. They are not doing extremely well anywhere. Desert mule deer, mountain muleys, Great Basin muleys. Regardless of the localities predator management practices etc…. They are struggling.

Your top part is speculative at best.

Re: mule deer, how can you isolate the effects of climate change from urban sprawl, encroachment on migration routes, predators, game management, disease, grazing practices, energy development, etc? You can't.

 

[PLhunter]

Your top part is speculative at best.

Re: mule deer, how can you isolate the effects of climate change from urban sprawl, encroachment on migration routes, predators, game management, disease, etc? You can't.

No you can’t except when looking at the affects of forage quality and availability seasonally. Also, not being able to isolate the effects from those other issues from each other isn’t an argument to ignore or discount those other issues.

There is an interesting documentary out there regarding the militaries research on climate shift and it’s impacts to national security. It’s interesting. It’s also not really speculative to say that if food no longer grows in an area that people will pack up to move to where it does and that those who live where it does may not welcome them with open arms or have the infrastructure to do so. Typically, when these things happen over many thousands of years it’s hardly noticed. But 30, 40, 100 year time scales?

Also, people act like climate change is something that a switch is flipped and now it’s happened. But it’s literally a matter of degrees. Could mule deer benefit or be okay at a 1 degree average global temperature change? Maybe. But 3? 4? 5? 6? 7? 8? Not likely. The do nothing or do little approach acts like it’s a band aid to be ripped off and it’s done. But it’s not it’s a progressive cycle with each change having its own set of realities and challenges.

 

[Dos Perros]

VerCauteren (2003) and McCabe & McCabe (1984)​

Someone show me on the chart when climate change became bad, and explain to me why it wasn't bad before that point.

 

[IdahoBeav]

I just don’t see it - I just see people wrapped up in their flavor of politics - blame everything on the other side rather than push for workable solutions. The billionaires spend millions influencing what issues are kept in the media - to get voters fired up over issues the billionaires could care less about, but it gets their guy elected who then gives the big businesses huge financial breaks. The same happed at the NRA.

That’s all I have to say about that.

This is close to the same topic that got me banned for life at Accurate Shooter, so I’ll keep any other thoughts to myself.

Fair enough, but are you assuming that the billionaires that control Washington are not pulling the strings on climate change legislation and the politicians involved?

The example I provided in my previous post wasn't to push one side vs. the other. It is actually in agreement with some of what you wrote here. I was pointing out an example of a guy going from hero to villain in the minds of half of the country and his good work ignored all because of an issue not related to environmentalism but an issue that is a problem for the politicians that are supposedly on the "side of science" in the fight on climate change. There are other similar examples where the flavors of politics are reversed.

 

[Dos Perros]

The above chart is also crazy because, according to science, sometime along that timescale American Indian populations crashed by as much as 95%. We can actually see evidence of that happening in ice core samples, that imply the crash had an effect on the global climate. Yet, it didn't affect mule deer populations. Mmmkay.

 

[buffybr]

This whole Climate Change, Global Warming fiasco is easily debunked by anyone with half a brain and an open mind by a trip through a good Nature and Science Museum like the one in Denver, Colorado.

Their dinosaur and fossil exhibits show plants and creatures that existed hundreds of millions of years ago when the climate of the Earth was nothing like it is now. And their geology exibits show the actual changes that have occurred in the Earth's surface through the last 4+ billion years.

Then a short trip just west of Denver where I-70 cuts through the hogback ridge and see all of the layers of various sedimentary rock formations that are exposed like an open book. The sand and mud that was once the ocean floor and low altitude swamps tens to hundreds of millions of years ago, are now rocks containing fossils and footprints of life back then are now rocks forming mountains a mile or more above the present ocean sea level.

25,000 to 100,000 years ago, during the last Ice Age, much of the Earth's northern hemisphere, including where I live in Montana, was covered with Ice Glaciers up to 2 miles thick.

You don't think that the Earth hasn't changed? And all of those changes that happened had absolutely nothing to do with mankind.

Our current "Climate Change or Global Warming Crises" are only a tool for politicians to control and to get rich from the people.

 

[IdahoBeav]

VerCauteren (2003) and McCabe & McCabe (1984)​

Someone show me on the chart when climate change became bad, and explain to me why it wasn't bad before that point.

This shows perfectly that mule deer tags need to be reduced and whitetails should be utilized for a hunter's desire to hunt deer on a yearly basis.

 

[wesfromky]

VerCauteren (2003) and McCabe & McCabe (1984)​

Someone show me on the chart when climate change became bad, and explain to me why it wasn't bad before that point.

Not that you are going to accept it, but given the CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and that increasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere raises the global temperature, this interactive chart might help put where we are today vs historically in perspective. Also this stops at 2022, we are pushing past 425ppm currently.

Trends in CO2 - NOAA Global Monitoring Laboratory

GML conducts research on greenhouse gas and carbon cycle feedbacks, changes in aerosols, and surface radiation, and recovery of stratospheric ozone.

gml.noaa.gov

 

[jmez]

You do realize that acid rain and the hole in the ozone aren't the big deal today that they were then because we identified the problem and made changes, right?

Oh of course. No question. I mean the science was settled how many times now? And that ice age we narrowly averted. Excuse me while I reclutch my pearls.

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[jmez]

People don’t remember shit. Lol we could stop a meteor strike and everyone would be protesting the expense of stopping the next one because it didn’t happen last time!! Survivor bias.

Oh the irony.

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