Climate change...deer numbers

[Dos XX]

Every time you hear the words climate change or global warming, substitute the words over population.

 

[rhsmith3]

summer range habitat, winter range habitat, predation, poaching and vehicle collisions are all major factors in mule deer decline.

A detailed list addressing each concern should be what we are getting. For each region and or WMU, for Christ sakes they have a district biologist for every region.

The deer killed between Dayville and prairie city is ridiculous. And what is being done? A couple signs that say deer crossing? That’s bullshit. That’s just one example, but every region has several.

 

[Koda_]

summer range habitat, winter range habitat, predation, poaching and vehicle collisions are all major factors in mule deer decline.

A detailed list addressing each concern should be what we are getting. For each region and or WMU, for Christ sakes they have a district biologist for every region.

The deer killed between Dayville and prairie city is ridiculous. And what is being done? A couple signs that say deer crossing? That’s bullshit. That’s just one example, but every region has several.

agree we should be getting detailed lists, especially on what ODFW is doing to reduce predation.

re roadkill, OHA is actually doing something about that.

Wildlife Crossing Hotspots Identified; Bill Passes Out of Committee - Oregon Hunters Association

Wildlife Crossing Hotspots Identified as Bill Passes Out of Key...

oregonhunters.org

 

[PNW bow hunter]

Those are only the deer on the westside of the state. The deer over here in eastern Oregon are all red voting deer who know their gender.

Whoa whoa whoa. I bet you have just as many gender confused deer around Bend as city deer around the west side. Bend is pretty close to a mini Portland. I don’t think your statement is very accurate, and I know deer politics & gender ideology!

 

[rhsmith3]

There is grant money available to for areas near the Malheur river, south of bend and John day valley that can apply. I don’t remember specifics but it was substantial and was specifically for migration corridor work.

I think there is outside organizations making attempts to do what I think ODFW should do or at the very least facilitate.

I think the grant money was in cooperation/joint project with ODFW.

It does feel reactionary, i just wish district bios did something other than talk about wolves and act pretentious

 

[Koda_]

There is grant money available to for areas near the Malheur river, south of bend and John day valley that can apply. I don’t remember specifics but it was substantial and was specifically for migration corridor work.

I think there is outside organizations making attempts to do what I think ODFW should do or at the very least facilitate.

I think the grant money was in cooperation/joint project with ODFW.

It does feel reactionary, i just wish district bios did something other than talk about wolves and act pretentious

ODFW does many good things to help wildlife grow but their hands are tied on the predator situation however they could be vocal to state officials and push to repeal the dog ban and push to severely limit wolves and open expand cougar quotas but they wont. They are failing on the predator situation.

 

[rhsmith3]

I used to think they did do a lot of good work, but to be honest I do not believe that anymore. Most are great people but due to politics and precedent can’t do anything meaningful to impact wildlife. They mitigate, put out fires and publish research.

Although I have been mostly impressed with the wildlife areas management. Phillip Schneider being my closest and most observed one.

I don’t believe hound hunting will ever come back in Oregon, as much as I wish it would… but the state did set a precedent allowing weed sales in individual counties which does open a door there that under the right circumstances could mean something.

 

[PLhunter]

Climactic conditions in Oregon have indeed been brutal no matter what you call it. Severe and late winter in 2016/17. Followed by several years of extreme drought. Mega fires. Decreased forage quality during nursing. Etc…. However, the issues are multifactorial. Acknowledging the climate challenges while addressing the other factors is a reasonable and necessary approach.

Regarding climate change. The Truth of the matter is we convert solid carbon locked into the earth’s crust into a reactive chemical capable of heating the atmosphere. It’s going to have some affects. Increasing acidity and average overall global temperature. At the end of the day that part is irrefutable. Human activities convert carbons in the earths crust to the gaseous state. True. Carbon Dioxide absorbs and radiates heat. True. Carbon dioxide and water… creates carbonic acid. Those are just facts. I know some in our demographic can get emotional regarding these things but those components above are all irrefutable. And in addition to any natural processes and not in lieu of.

 

[Koda_]

Acknowledging the climate challenges while addressing the other factors is a reasonable and necessary approach.

I have no problem acknowledging the impact of climate change but the real problem is ODFW not addressing the unbalanced predator problem, specifically cougars. They have no issues calling out climate change, why are they silent on the unbalanced cougar population.

 

[rhsmith3]

I once listened to a bio tell me that lions kill more in the spring and summer than the fall/winter. His reasoning was that they primarily predated on calves/fawns and that time of the year they are smaller than they are later in the year. Which is accurate, ish. He also went on saying meat went longer before spoiling in the winter which is accurate ish.

The point he missed is bears can and will take lion kills. And that adds to the amount of ungulates killed it’s not even debatable.

 

[PLhunter]

I have no problem acknowledging the impact of climate change but the real problem is ODFW not addressing the unbalanced predator problem, specifically cougars. They have no issues calling out climate change, why are they silent on the unbalanced cougar population.

I think it’s something they can’t do much about their hands are tied. I’ve talked to them and when it comes to landowner damage tags and predators they say it’s a legislative problem. Also, pre 2016 cougar numbers were about where they are now and mule deer were doing okayish. Much better than now.

Since then the predator variable has remained relatively constant but the massive climactic shifts with the severe winter, mega fires, and massive droughts has been brutal on the mule deer. Personally, I don’t think it’s predation specifically. It’s low fawn survival due to massive recreational and development pressure. Everyone is everywhere all the time doing everything. Add to that new homes, fences, etc…. I live in Redmond and just within a mile radius of my house there has been probably 3 miles of wire mesh fencing put in, in just the last 5 years. I’ve seen fawns laying panting next to it with a panicked mom on the other side. She can jump and they can’t get through. It separates them. That’s happening in a massive scale in a lot of areas. Add to that biking, hiking, cx, skiing, more cars on roads etc… it’s a massacre. We as hunters I think need to put in the time to hunt cougars in Oregon. We have tags. Learn how to hunt them and spend the time.

 

[Koda_]

I think it’s something they can’t do much about their hands are tied. I’ve talked to them and when it comes to landowner damage tags and predators they say it’s a legislative problem. Also, pre 2016 cougar numbers were about where they are now and mule deer were doing okayish. Much better than now.

I agree that part of it is their hands are tied, the dog ban was a public initiative not the states doing, it passed, its law and ODFW cant go around that. But they can be vocal on the impact of cougar predation.

Last I checked current cougar populations have like quadrupled in Oregon since the dog ban went into effect. Ive never heard the population stabilized, I hear it continues to grow and more and more sightings in rural areas in the news.

We have tags. Learn how to hunt them and spend the time.

Ive never done it, but just bought a call and will be trying. No idea what Im doing but will dive in and see what happens.

 

[rhsmith3]

In the Mule deer initiative units predator control was an option. Murderers creeks was an option for that and the district Bio decided against… He did not have to worry about legislative restriction.

Also fires have kinda created a lot of mule deer habitat. Just ask your bio

 

[rhsmith3]

As far as predator numbers, mountain lion density in Eastern Oregon is some of the highest in the lower 48. According to their research.

Anecdotally though they have no FN idea how many there actually is. I have hounds, and have a pretty good pulse on trends.

 

[PLhunter]

I agree that part of it is their hands are tied, the dog ban was a public initiative not the states doing, it passed, its law and ODFW cant go around that. But they can be vocal on the impact of cougar predation.

Last I checked current cougar populations have like quadrupled in Oregon since the dog ban went into effect. Ive never heard the population stabilized, I hear it continues to grow and more and more sightings in rural areas in the news.


Ive never done it, but just bought a call and will be trying. No idea what Im doing but will dive in and see what happens.

We killed one this last spring. Dumb luck bear hunting on the coast. I know ODFW does workshops on cougar and bear hunting from time to time. I tried to make a play on one this fall in the Owyhee, it was hunting pronghorn interestingly enough. It vanished surprise surprise.

 

[robby denning]

I think it would be ignorant to suggest the earth's climate has remained a constant throughout millennia. Of course the earth's climate has changed and will continue to change with or without human presence. I believe there is more of an "agenda" behind the climate crisis. I believe the decline in mule deer are multi faceted. Habiat loss/fragmenting, fire suppression and over predation are more of their concern. However, I do believe some ungulates are more affected than others, and less adaptive to changing environments like mountain goat. Where I live we have seen goat numbers decline. In many conversations with the state ungulate specialist, his local theory is two fold. One, being we are loosing our snowpack earlier and feed is simply drying up faster and the habit is a limiting factor. The second, too many predators on the landscape.
Perhaps this would be a great conversation for @robby denning to have on his podcast with Kevin Monteith. I really enjoy listening to their conversations.

great idea if i can get him on.

to the OP, I've heard climate change mentioned as a contributing factor, but nothing concrete that I remember beyond just a mention. Might have been on one of the episodes I did with Toby Boudreau of IDFG.

 

[PLhunter]

They are not mutually exclusive.

Exactly. It drives me nuts how people can’t understand that any human caused affects are in addition to whatever natural cycles and occurrences there are. Climate cycles change naturally. Absolutely. Add to that human caused changes and you add severity, frequency, and rate of change. Natural weather pattern shifts are stressful enough on wildlife adding to that can be the final straw. Especially, when that’s not the only category of stressor that’s being changed.

 

[TaperPin]

There’s a whole fossil record of what happened last time temps were extra warm - about 3x the normal amount of rain in many places and things like crocs lived up in the Arctic. I have no doubt humans are our own worst enemy - it’s human nature to resist taking action on long term problems - just think about superfund sites we have that still aren’t fixed and multiply that by 10,000 for the rest of the world. Nobody gives a sht about climate change unless they live on the coast and are tired of rising sea levels flooding their beach condo, or their favorite ski area starts to suck. Our kids‘ kids will inherit the climate of the early Pliocene for a few million years - North America will be fine - hot and sweaty, but fine. Maybe Putin’s or Kim’s or an Iranian dictator‘s kids’ kids will start a nuclear war and it won’t matter. Again human’s won’t care until the day it happens. *chuckle*

Just look at the btching about tags - if hunters were allowed to shoot as many animals as they wanted, even though everyone knows that would kill off all big game and end hunting for our kids, is there any doubt many hunters would jump at it?! Lol

 

[IdahoBeav]

Every time you hear the words climate change or global warming, substitute the words over population.

That's a dangerous myth.

Not everyone has the same carbon footprint. However, the demographic that makes up the vast majority of users on this forum has the highest per capita carbon footprint on the planet.

 

[PLhunter]

I agree that part of it is their hands are tied, the dog ban was a public initiative not the states doing, it passed, its law and ODFW cant go around that. But they can be vocal on the impact of cougar predation.

Last I checked current cougar populations have like quadrupled in Oregon since the dog ban went into effect. Ive never heard the population stabilized, I hear it continues to grow and more and more sightings in rural areas in the news.


Ive never done it, but just bought a call and will be trying. No idea what Im doing but will dive in and see what happens.

Also, as someone who loves mule deer and has spent my life time pursuing them my biggest fear is that they’re simply right. That the changes in forage quality, drought, sporadic winters, etc.. are the cause of the steady decline. I want it to be predators, cars, or whatever cause is eventually manageable. All those causes are easy to rally the troops around. You can get passionate mule deer guys to show up for habitat improvement projects, travel management plan meetings, advocate for predator control and participate in controlling predators. But it’s possible that the threat is one that way too few would be willing to show up on because they are too worried about losing their rank in a culture war. Just look at half the comments on this thread. I digress but we owe these animals better.