Cliff Grays Podcast with Aaron Davidson

[Flyjunky]

Did you not see the “beta male” part your buddy Aaron spewed first? How is that not name calling? Aaron himself may be a great guy. It’s his choice in words and his marketing model I find douchey.

It’s no flex. I only state all that to say I simply don’t buy the lack of time argument. Like exercise, or going to church, or spending time with your kids, or anything else beneficial, when it’s important enough you make the time to learn!

Do you personally know anyone who owns a gw gun that doesn’t practice with it?

Do you build your own guns? Do you load all your own ammo?

Btw, I don’t know Aaron or have any of his products but just because of the hate I think I’ll get a set of the gen 2 revics just because of this thread.

 

[Cliff Gray]

Btw, I don’t know Aaron or have any of his products but just because of the hate I think I’ll get a set of the gen 2 revics just because of this thread.

bwhaahah!

they are pretty great

 

[180ls1]

I'd hate to see what some of you all do when you drive past a small town restaurant with "world famous cheeseburgers."

 

[HuntHarder]

I'd hate to see what some of you all do when you drive past a small town restaurant with "wold famous cheeseburgers."

It's Beta Slogan rage!

 

[SDHNTR]

Do you personally know anyone who owns a gw gun that doesn’t practice with it?

Do you build your own guns? Do you load all your own ammo?

Btw, I don’t know Aaron or have any of his products but just because of the hate I think I’ll get a set of the gen 2 revics just because of this thread.

Yes, to all of your questions. A firm yes, especially to the first question. As stated before, I know 2 guys with GW guns. Neither knows anything about them. Neither knows a thing about ballistics. Neither cares. Neither has any interest in learning the how or why. They just think they can twist the turret and kill stuff. Thats all they care about and precisely why they bought the rifle over other options. Line up their customers and I’d be willing to bet the majority are similar. Theatrics aside, THAT is their target market. The baffling part is most of you guys seem to think that’s OK.

 

[Flyjunky]

Yes, to all of your questions. A firm yes, especially to the first question. As stated before, I know 2 guys with GW guns. Neither knows anything about them. Neither knows a thing about ballistics. Neither cares. Neither has any interest in learning the how or why. They just think they can twist the turret and kill stuff. Thats all they care about and precisely why they bought the rifle over other options. Line up their customers and I’d be willing to bet the majority are similar. Theatrics aside, THAT is their target market. The baffling part is most of you guys seem to think that’s OK.

If that’s the case then those people are the problem, not GW. If people aren’t smart enough to look past any marketing then I don’t know what to say.

Like I said before, I would bet money not a single person at GW tells someone they don’t need to practice or learn the finer points of lr shooting.

What about other companies who put an accuracy “guarantee” in their literature? Do you complain about those companies as well? I mean, after sighting in at 100 those rifles should hold that guarantee to 800 correct? No need to practice.

 

[Macintosh]

Food for thought.

Despite some having their panties in a wad a bit much, I believe a few folks are suggesting it would be a lot more responsible (but probably a lot less sexy) to say something like "the gun can shoot 1000 yards out of the box--can you?" It's a bit disingenuous to not at least acknowledge that the slogan and probably some other communication is riding that line of selling people on the idea that the gun alone is all they need to drop that elk/mule deer/etc in its tracks at 800, 900, etc yards next month. Just as one example, that's a totally different ballgame than a 100 yard accuracy guarantee which is not overtly encouraging people to shoot at longer and longer distances, quite possibly beyond their skill level.

That said, on my first look the website seems to me to be selling the shooting school pretty aggressively too. Could they be more forward about suggesting the shooter's skill is an important part of the equation that isnt included with the rifle? Sure, and maybe they should since they're pushing hunting specifically at long range, which is clearly an "optional" element of hunting that's not without controversy on multiple fronts—enough that's its leading to experimental regulation on all of us in some places.

But they also say this:

A quality tool is still just a tool in the wrong hands. The proper skill and training combined with quality tools are what produce proficient long range hunters. Many groups advertise they’ll teach you how to shoot long range. Gunwerks’ approach is different. Gunwerks Long Range University provides superior equipment, teaches the science, practices in real-world situations and does it in a progressive manner to not just walk you in to steel at 1000 yards, but leaves you with the tools and the knowledge to be confident pulling off your one shot of a lifetime.

 

[eric1115]

Food for thought.

Despite some having their panties in a wad a bit much, I believe a few folks are suggesting it would be a lot more responsible (but probably a lot less sexy) to say something like "the gun can shoot 1000 yards out of the box--can you?" It's a bit disingenuous to not at least acknowledge that the slogan and probably some other communication is riding that line of selling people on the idea that the gun alone is all they need to drop that elk/mule deer/etc in its tracks at 800, 900, etc yards next month. Just as one example, that's a totally different ballgame than a 100 yard accuracy guarantee which is not overtly encouraging people to shoot at longer and longer distances, quite possibly beyond their skill level.

That said, on my first look the website seems to me to be selling the shooting school pretty aggressively too. Could they be more forward about suggesting the shooter's skill is an important part of the equation that isnt included with the rifle? Sure, and maybe they should since they're pushing hunting specifically at long range, which is clearly an "optional" element of hunting that's not without controversy on multiple fronts enough that's its leading to experimental regulation on all of us in some places.

But they also say this:

A quality tool is still just a tool in the wrong hands. The proper skill and training combined with quality tools are what produce proficient long range hunters. Many groups advertise they’ll teach you how to shoot long range. Gunwerks’ approach is different. Gunwerks Long Range University provides superior equipment, teaches the science, practices in real-world situations and does it in a progressive manner to not just walk you in to steel at 1000 yards, but leaves you with the tools and the knowledge to be confident pulling off your one shot of a lifetime.

Hey! You get your moderate and thoughtful take out of here. This is a discussion between fans and haters!

 

[MtnW]

I'd hate to see what some of you all do when you drive past a small town restaurant with "world famous cheeseburgers."

If there are a lot of local license plates on the vehicles in the parking lot and the parking lot is pretty full, I usually stop.
If the lot only has a couple BMW’s with California plates I keep driving!
How about you?

 

[JGRaider]

I have no dog in this fight. I love the learning process and figuring stuff out for myself. I have never and almost certainly will never own a GW rifle or go on a guided hunt.

How is what a guide does materially different than what GW does? A guy wants success (on a hunt, or in putting together a reliable, accurate shooting system) without devoting all the time required to build the skills and knowledge to do so himself. How is a dude who doesn't want to spend years learning about elk sign/habitat/patterns any different than a dude that doesn't want to spend years personally figuring out what works and what doesn't with rifles, scopes, rings, reloading, and shooting solutions?

I'm not saying either or both are good or bad, just wondering if you think guides serve the same role for actual hunting as GW does for shooting systems. I have my thoughts on both, but curious to hear yours.

I don't know why people do what they do, but I'm sure they have their reasons. The reason hunters booked with me is that I had access to 150,000 acres of private land in Texas where there is little public land. You want access to prime hunting you hire people like me to gain access which is otherwise impossible on your own especially if you live a long ways away. Most were excellent hunters and shooters, but there were numerous lardassss rich guys without much of a clue about his equipment......like the clown from CA who showed up wanting to "make sure his rifle was sighted in" first morning of the hunt. He had his Swarovski scope in one hand, and rifle in the other.

 

[chicoredneck]

Aaron Davidson hit on this already, but how did people lose track of what makes us as humans successful? We hunt, as we always have, based off our ingenuity, intelligence, and foresight. We all want to be successful. Anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous. In the hunting world, holding back the use technology not only stifles innovation, it’s immoral if you take into account the most basic consideration of other human beings. Who are you to decide how I pursue happiness as long as it does not interfere with yours? We effectively manage game populations through tag allocations. Trying to manage game populations through technology restriction's during any legal weapon seasons, as seems to be the current buzz, is silly and will just result in human ingenuity finding work arounds like we do with everything. It’s also anti freedom.

 

[wind gypsy]

I'd hate to see what some of you all do when you drive past a small town restaurant with "world famous cheeseburgers."

 

[chicoredneck]

As I get older I’ve come to the realization that many of our laws, regulations, and restrictions of liberty, are often a result of someone’s jealousy or envy of another person’s success. The hunting community, sadly, is not immune from this human phenomenon.

 

[MtnW]

Until you have witnessed some of these influenced wannabe sniper types GUT SHOOT OR BLOW OFF A FRONT OR REAR LEG, OR BREAK A JAW of a trophy mule deer or bull elk cross canyon at 800+ yards to never be seen again, and think this is ethical. You were definitely raised differently than I was. The influencers and sellers/marketers pushing this insane ultra long range of attempted killing is beyond the realm of hunting/sportsman . Their marketing , sales , social media gigs is all about the monetization of wildlife for ones own greed, personal gain and ego. Even the Outdoors channels show these disgusting long range wounding of big game animals to the general public like it’s normal, alright and an everyday occurrence.

 

[Jhconnected]

Yes, to all of your questions. A firm yes, especially to the first question. As stated before, I know 2 guys with GW guns. Neither knows anything about them. Neither knows a thing about ballistics. Neither cares. Neither has any interest in learning the how or why. They just think they can twist the turret and kill stuff. Thats all they care about and precisely why they bought the rifle over other options. Line up their customers and I’d be willing to bet the majority are similar. Theatrics aside, THAT is their target market. The baffling part is most of you guys seem to think that’s OK.

I’ll line up.

I own a Nexus. I had a non-GW rifle that I spend 7 years and lots of money and time DIY’ing trying to get it to shoot. My buddy said just keep shooting and you’ll get better.

I had been hunting all my life, shot way more than him, more rifles than him and had shot great with other rifles. I know I could shoot better than that.

Throughout that, I had learned about actions, barrels, cartridges, reloading, bullets, external ballistics, wind, all the things that yall bitch about.

Even before I got on this forum, I knew I could get a Tikka and it would probably shoot. I could customize, new stock, pre-fit/custom barrel, etc. I also knew I could do the same with all the pre-fit custom actions out there.

But, I didn’t want to waste my ******* time anymore. I knew I could throw all the pieces together and it may not land to where I wanted. I knew I could get a semi-custom or custom rifle and your mileage may vary.

I did my research and GW had and still has the best quality control of rifles coming off the line. And the best customer support so if I had issues. I could **** around with my rifle, try to figure out what is wrong, etc. and I do with the ammo accuracy differences, scope mounting, shooting form, etc. I reload, etc. But if it’s a rifle issue I wanted to call a guy and not have to beat my head against the wall trying to fix something with skills I didn’t have and need tools that I didn’t have either.

So, I bought a Nexus, knowing I could do what all yall do. But, when I had had enough, knowing everything yall know, I could still call a guy. Because they could build a rifle better than I could even though I knew everything yall talk about on this forum.

I bought the rifle only, wanting to do the scope mounting, ammo validation, etc.

Fist shots down range were sub half MOA with multiple factory ammo loadings. None of the BS groupings that I was seeing with that old rifle.

Not every GW customer is rich or an idiot or want to cut corners. Sometimes they know all the things roksliders do. Sometimes we just want to pay the man to do something that we know we can’t do as well.

I got to quit ******* around with a bad rifle, dev a hand load, chrono and validate my ammo, “twist my turret”, and practice. Now I’m shopping around at shooting classes because I know my limits and I’m not going to bang my head against the wall at the range trying to teach myself something when I can learn faster from someone.

Now, instead of ******* around with my rifle, I have hunts lined up for the next four years which I wasn’t prepared for and wouldn’t have lined up if I was ******* around with my rifle.

 

[Flyjunky]

Until you have witnessed some of these influenced wannabe sniper types GUT SHOOT OR BLOW OFF A FRONT OR REAR LEG, OR BREAK A JAW of a trophy mule deer or bull elk cross canyon at 800+ yards to never be seen again, and think this is ethical. You were definitely raised differently than I was. The influencers and sellers/marketers pushing this insane ultra long range of attempted killing is beyond the realm of hunting/sportsman . Their marketing , sales , social media gigs is all about the monetization of wildlife for ones own greed, personal gain and ego. Even the Outdoors channels show these disgusting long range wounding of big game animals to the general public like it’s normal, alright and an everyday occurrence.

Tell me something, are any animals wounded at less than 300 yards? Do you think it’s more or less than “long range” shooters? What about bowhunters, do they would animals at less than 40 yards? What about people who take shots at running animals? Do these count as well or doesn’t it fit your narrative?

 

[Jhconnected]

Until you have witnessed some of these influenced wannabe sniper types GUT SHOOT OR BLOW OFF A FRONT OR REAR LEG, OR BREAK A JAW of a trophy mule deer or bull elk cross canyon at 800+ yards to never be seen again, and think this is ethical. You were definitely raised differently than I was. The influencers and sellers/marketers pushing this insane ultra long range of attempted killing is beyond the realm of hunting/sportsman . Their marketing , sales , social media gigs is all about the monetization of wildlife for ones own greed, personal gain and ego. Even the Outdoors channels show these disgusting long range wounding of big game animals to the general public like it’s normal, alright and an everyday occurrence.

I’ve seen people do these things at 100 yards.

 

[idelkslayer]

Until you have witnessed some of these influenced wannabe sniper types GUT SHOOT OR BLOW OFF A FRONT OR REAR LEG, OR BREAK A JAW of a trophy mule deer or bull elk cross canyon at 800+ yards to never be seen again, and think this is ethical. You were definitely raised differently than I was. The influencers and sellers/marketers pushing this insane ultra long range of attempted killing is beyond the realm of hunting/sportsman . Their marketing , sales , social media gigs is all about the monetization of wildlife for ones own greed, personal gain and ego. Even the Outdoors channels show these disgusting long range wounding of big game animals to the general public like it’s normal, alright and an everyday occurrence.

You should visit your nearest gun range the Saturday before the season opener. The average hunter doesn't need a $10K rifle to wound game at 800 yards, they are perfectly capable of doing it at 100 yards or less.

 

[wind gypsy]

You should visit your nearest gun range the Saturday before the season opener. The average hunter doesn't need a $10K rifle to wound game at 800 yards, they are perfectly capable of doing it at 100 yards or less.

And those are the guys actually trying to make sure their rifles are zero'd..

 

[JGRaider]

Tell me something, are any animals wounded at less than 300 yards? Do you think it’s more or less than “long range” shooters? What about bowhunters, do they would animals at less than 40 yards? What about people who take shots at running animals? Do these count as well or doesn’t it fit your narrative?

I've got no idea what your marksman capabilities are, but would you say you're much more accurate at 300 or 1000 on any given day?