Cliff Grays Podcast with Aaron Davidson

[JGRaider]

I’ll line up.

I own a Nexus. I had a non-GW rifle that I spend 7 years and lots of money and time DIY’ing trying to get it to shoot. My buddy said just keep shooting and you’ll get better.

I had been hunting all my life, shot way more than him, more rifles than him and had shot great with other rifles. I know I could shoot better than that.

Throughout that, I had learned about actions, barrels, cartridges, reloading, bullets, external ballistics, wind, all the things that yall bitch about.

Even before I got on this forum, I knew I could get a Tikka and it would probably shoot. I could customize, new stock, pre-fit/custom barrel, etc. I also knew I could do the same with all the pre-fit custom actions out there.

But, I didn’t want to waste my ******* time anymore. I knew I could throw all the pieces together and it may not land to where I wanted. I knew I could get a semi-custom or custom rifle and your mileage may vary.

I did my research and GW had and still has the best quality control of rifles coming off the line. And the best customer support so if I had issues. I could **** around with my rifle, try to figure out what is wrong, etc. and I do with the ammo accuracy differences, scope mounting, shooting form, etc. I reload, etc. But if it’s a rifle issue I wanted to call a guy and not have to beat my head against the wall trying to fix something with skills I didn’t have and need tools that I didn’t have either.

So, I bought a Nexus, knowing I could do what all yall do. But, when I had had enough, knowing everything yall know, I could still call a guy. Because they could build a rifle better than I could even though I knew everything yall talk about on this forum.

I bought the rifle only, wanting to do the scope mounting, ammo validation, etc.

Fist shots down range were sub half MOA with multiple factory ammo loadings. None of the BS groupings that I was seeing with that old rifle.

Not every GW customer is rich or an idiot or want to cut corners. Sometimes they know all the things roksliders do. Sometimes we just want to pay the man to do something that we know we can’t do as well.

I got to quit ******* around with a bad rifle, dev a hand load, chrono and validate my ammo, “twist my turret”, and practice. Now I’m shopping around at shooting classes because I know my limits and I’m not going to bang my head against the wall at the range trying to teach myself something when I can learn faster from someone.

Now, instead of ******* around with my rifle, I have hunts lined up for the next four years which I wasn’t prepared for and wouldn’t have lined up if I was ******* around with my rifle.

Glad I started out with a few Tikkas to learn on. I didn't find it that difficult. Glad you got it sorted out.

 

[Jhconnected]

It w

Glad I started out with a few Tikkas to learn on. I didn't find it that difficult. Glad you got it sorted out.

It was a mix of bad rifle and a guy advising me to keep working on it.

I considered quitting that rifle many times.

Sadly I had almost bought a Tikka before I bought that rifle.

One moral of the story, sometimes a gun won’t shoot and trust yourself to know it.

 

[JGRaider]

It w

It was a mix of bad rifle and a guy advising me to keep working on it.

I considered quitting that rifle many times.

Sadly I had almost bought a Tikka before I bought that rifle.

One moral of the story, sometimes a gun won’t shoot and trust yourself to know it.

Yessir. You obviously learned alot even though you got frustrated. That's still a good thing. Glad you got it sorted out the way that works for you. Kudos.

 

[chicoredneck]

Where do you draw the line? 1 yard, 2 yards, 100 yards, 1000 yards? That’s the problem. You have no right to tell me where the line is and it’s different for everyone and in every situation.

 

[RyanT26]

You should visit your nearest gun range the Saturday before the season opener. The average hunter doesn't need a $10K rifle to wound game at 800 yards, they are perfectly capable of doing it at 100 yards or less.

Now wait just a damn second here. Are you trying to tell me if I can put three rounds in a paper plate at 200 yards that doesn’t automatically mean that I’m good at 100 and 300.
Next, you will try to tell me that just holding 6 inches above the back at 500 isn't an accurate hold either!

 

[Flyjunky]

I've got no idea what your marksman capabilities are, but would you say you're much more accurate at 300 or 1000 on any given day?

300, but what’s that have to do with you implying long range shooters are wounding animals when way, way more animals are wounded under 300.

 

[MtnW]

Where do you draw the line? 1 yard, 2 yards, 100 yards, 1000 yards? That’s the problem. You have no right to tell me where the line is and it’s different for everyone and in every situation.

First are you hunting or shooting?
There are too many of Aaron’s type customers who want to shoot at 1000 yd mule deer, and elk but not put anywhere close to the amount of time in to become proficient and humane. His type is encouraging the let’s buy a 1000 yard hunting rifle.

It’s all over the internet and the outdoor channel of these goons who are filming their hunts shooting 700-1000yd plus at mule deer, elk,pronghorn, etc.. and showing their incompetency wounding these animals on their you tube channels and tv shows. Not making this sh** up. They make blasting away and wounding animals at 700 + yards and make it seem this is normal and no big deal.

These shows are not promoting shooting game at 100 yds. but instead the new long range shooting at big game animals. Sure there are plenty of bubbas who can’t make a 100yd shot, but they aren’t the ones making 100’s of you tube promotional videos , infomercials, tv shows on this long range wounding.The hype is all about shooting long range and 93% of them should be shooting at 200yds on a good day.

It sickens me watching the wounding of these majestic big game animals used as targets at long range .

 

[4cMuley]

Yes, to all of your questions. A firm yes, especially to the first question. As stated before, I know 2 guys with GW guns. Neither knows anything about them. Neither knows a thing about ballistics. Neither cares. Neither has any interest in learning the how or why. They just think they can twist the turret and kill stuff. Thats all they care about and precisely why they bought the rifle over other options. Line up their customers and I’d be willing to bet the majority are similar. Theatrics aside, THAT is their target market. The baffling part is most of you guys seem to think that’s OK.

Member when you called others “douchey” I member. More importantly, pepridge farms remembers

 

[deerhunter628]

First are you hunting or shooting?
There are too many of Aaron’s type customers who want to shoot at 1000 yd mule deer, and elk but not put anywhere close to the amount of time in to become proficient and humane. His type is encouraging the let’s buy a 1000 yard hunting rifle.

It’s all over the internet and the outdoor channel of these goons who are filming their hunts shooting 700-1000yd plus at mule deer, elk,pronghorn, etc.. and showing their incompetency wounding these animals on their you tube channels and tv shows. Not making this sh** up. They make blasting away and wounding animals at 700 + yards and make it seem this is normal and no big deal.

These shows are not promoting shooting game at 100 yds. but instead the new long range shooting at big game animals. Sure there are plenty of bubbas who can’t make a 100yd shot, but they aren’t the ones making 100’s of you tube promotional videos , infomercials, tv shows on this long range wounding.The hype is all about shooting long range and 93% of them should be shooting at 200yds on a good day.

It sickens me watching the wounding of these majestic big game animals used as targets at long range .

So are you saying all the “goons on the internet” are using Gunwerks rifles?

 

[BCDJR]

Member when you called others “douchey” I member. More importantly, pepridge farms remembers

Yep..I also think that’s in Taylor Swift’s vocabulary……maybe he picked it up watching videos?

 

[MtnW]

So are you saying all the “goons on the internet” are using Gunwerks rifles?

No . Most goons on the internet making the 800 yard wounding shots and filming themselves can’t afford GW, . Aaron has a tiny market share since his target audience is rich guys, corporate titans, trust babies who are inexperienced and want someone to cater to them when they fly up in their private jets to visit OZ.

 

[Jhconnected]

No . Most goons on the internet making the 800 yard wounding shots and filming themselves can’t afford GW, . Aaron has a tiny market share since his target audience is rich guys, corporate titans, trust babies who are inexperienced and want someone to cater to them when they fly up in their private jets to visit OZ.

Not all of us.

 

[deerhunter628]

No . Most goons on the internet making the 800 yard wounding shots and filming themselves can’t afford GW, . Aaron has a tiny market share since his target audience is rich guys, corporate titans, trust babies who are inexperienced and want someone to cater to them when they fly up in their private jets to visit OZ.

Ok. One post you say Aaron type customers and then you say they are not Aaron type customers. Seems like you are a bit confused.

 

[JGRaider]

300, but what’s that have to do with you implying long range shooters are wounding animals when way, way more animals are wounded under 300.

I didn't imply squat. You need to check your source. For the record though, since 99% more game is shot closer to 300 than 1000 that would make sense wouldn't it?

 

[HandgunHTR]

First are you hunting or shooting?

I am killing. Pure and simple. You can call it any of the beta buzz words you want to call it, like "taking" or "harvesting" or whatever, but at the end of my hunts, something dies. Period.

If I can do it at 25 yards, great. If it is at 800 yards. Still great.

I take the time to practice and understand my equipment, whether it is the Tikka franken-gun that I put together, the Satterlee rifle that I had built, or the GW rifle that I spent my money on. At the end of the day it is my decision to pull the trigger and I don't give a good gosh darn about your "ethics" or what you think people should, or shouldn't be doing. You do you and leave me the hell alone. It is people like you that are the reason I can't buy a bottle of bourbon on Sunday here in SC (i.e. people who want to legislate morality).

There are too many of Aaron’s type customers who want to shoot at 1000 yd mule deer, and elk but not put anywhere close to the amount of time in to become proficient and humane. His type is encouraging the let’s buy a 1000 yard hunting rifle.

You sure know a lot about Aaron's customers. I would bet my entire year's salary that you couldn't name 5 of them who you know personally. Also, there are quite a few "regular" factory rifles that are 1000 yard hunting rifle (just about every 7PRC or 300PRC, for example).

It’s all over the internet and the outdoor channel of these goons who are filming their hunts shooting 700-1000yd plus at mule deer, elk,pronghorn, etc.. and showing their incompetency wounding these animals on their you tube channels and tv shows. Not making this sh** up. They make blasting away and wounding animals at 700 + yards and make it seem this is normal and no big deal.

These shows are not promoting shooting game at 100 yds. but instead the new long range shooting at big game animals. Sure there are plenty of bubbas who can’t make a 100yd shot, but they aren’t the ones making 100’s of you tube promotional videos , infomercials, tv shows on this long range wounding.The hype is all about shooting long range and 93% of them should be shooting at 200yds on a good day.

What about all the ones who are killing animals at those distances. Or do you just assume that for every video that shows a successful hunt there are 2-3 shots that are not successful that aren't shown? Like all the folks who claim that the proponents of the small cartridges only show the successes but are secretly hiding multiple failures in order to push their "narrative". You should look up what "projection" is, because I believe you are doing it.

It sickens me watching the wounding of these majestic big game animals used as targets at long range .

Your feelings are showing. Animals are cool, yes. But they are animals. We hunt them in order to kill them. By definition they are targets. Pure and simple. If you think that wounding them with rifles or bows is cruel, you should spend some time in the woods and take a gander at the shit that Mother Nature throws at them. We are doing them a kindness by killing them as efficiently as we do.

 

[RancherJohn]

I have a full time job running a business that manages nearly a billion dollars. I have teenagers in competitive sports and I coach their teams. I own an offshore fishing boat, an RV, a cabin, a hunting lease, all the toys, and I hunt all over the west multiple times a year. I have zero spare time. But if I want to hunt at long range, you can damn well guarantee that I am going to be putting my time into intimately learning as much as I can about how to optimize every part of that process! The animals and the sanctity of our sport deserve it.

Congratulations on the enormity of your success.

Did anyone, anywhere, say that you (or a GW buyer) shouldn't put the time in to learn shooting at long range? Did anyone ever state you can only shoot a GW rifle at long range?

I must have missed that, but maybe I don't have "nearly a billion dollars" worth of reading comprehension.

All I stated was that GW was shortcutting the learning curve for a shooting system, not the shooting itself (which, they offer a class to satisfy that need as well). Do you harbor the same angst towards Unknown for selling their Tier'ed Tikkas & the S2H courses? What about every other custom/semi-custom gun maker out there that assembles rifles correctly and shoots them to verify?

To be clear, I own no GW rifles. I just find some of the takes in this thread to be ones that a clown might make.

 

[TeaGull]

As a small business owner, I think of only one thing…. Smart business model, high end product to customers that have the money… there is always a market for quality.

 

[Flyjunky]

I didn't imply squat. You need to check your source. For the record though, since 99% more game is shot closer to 300 than 1000 that would make sense wouldn't it?

So after all the whining about gw customers expecting to shoot game at lr without worrying about practice, you’re now saying you weren’t implying that. So why worry if they are shooting lr?

Yes, it does make sense so how about we get the vast, vast majority of shooters to shoot better at less than 300 and we’d have a lot less wounded animals.

Out of curiosity, what percentage of the hunting populace take shots over 500?

 

[sz28]

So if GW marketing is technically accurate, but the product requires some level of skill or knowledge to achieve the results, isn’t that similar to other manufacturers claiming a “1 MOA or less” guarantee? It seems like people are blaming GW for some users’ misuse or overestimation of their abilities.

 

[BBob]

For the record though, since 99% more game is shot closer to 300 than 1000 that would make sense wouldn't it?

So your whole argument there is crap then. If only 1% of game is shot at 1000yds then what's the beef? Out of those 1% of 1K shooting hunters how many can we assume are rich jet setting GW customers shooting GW rifles? Probably pretty darn small. So the beef that AD's GW rifles are being miss-used by his customers shooting at animals at 1K has got to be about a big old nothing burger numbers wise.