Cliff Grays Podcast with Aaron Davidson

[douglasfir]

Gunwerks is the best!
Our customers are the best hunters!

That’s about as far as I got and turned it off.

I nearly turned it off early on. I know enough rich guys with alpha dog personalities that I wasn't all that interested in hearing another one speak for an hour. But I stuck with it and I'm glad I did. Both the Cliff Gray interview and the Rokslide one were very much worth listening to for a gun nerd.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I'd much rather talk to Aaron than some PC CEO who lies to you the whole podcast.

This industry is full of shit for the most part.

 

[Castle Rock]

Someone has to say it though, his mustache is pretty gay

 

[Quandary]

I want a lighter weight rifle scope in the 20oz range that is dependable, FFP and has a decent reticle that works at low power ranges of 4-6X as well as higher end if needed. Preferably in mil/mil. A 4-12 or 4-16 with ~40mm objective. Exposed elevation (preferably locking) and capped windage.

Isn't that called the SWFA 3-15 Gen 2?

 

[Macintosh]

And there’s the beauty of it. I actually did not hear him say gunwerx was the best, or that his customers were the best, at least that wasnt the takeaway message I got. I heard him say that he’s fortunate that he was able to highly leverage his finances to be able to make what he wants, to address the problems that he has, and that he’s carefully selected a target customer that is able to pay for that and has a particular mindset that values his approach, in order to keep the business going. A big company that has to sell big volume has to cater to the center of the bell curve where everything is average. What I heard is that these guys that are crazy-aggressive go-getters with money and not as much time, are the customers it takes to allow a company to be so focused on R&D and solving these highly nuanced problems with a full-system approach. That’s not far from describing a lot of people here on rokslide chasing incremental improvements in their own shooting and hunting. He values his customers because they allow him to run the business he wants, and everybody wins including the whole industry that borrows the best ideas and continues to refine them. Maybe folks should turn a mirror on themselves if his description turned them off?

 

[JDMBEND]

I'd much rather talk to Aaron than some PC CEO who lies to you the whole podcast.

This industry is full of shit for the most part.

Refreshing to hear a CEO who DGAF and says what he thinks.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Would have you thought higher of him and been more interested in the podcast if he said we dont make a good product and our customers are terrible hunters? I would hope they think they are the best and think they have the best customers.

I had better things to do with my time than listen him talk over Cliff to say how awesome he and his customers are. I didn’t care for the podcast…so I turned it off.

Nothing like being closed minded

Explain. Tell me how I’m close minded. Should I only like podcasts you like?

For the record, I don’t hate Gunwerks. I own their bipod and think it’s a fine piece of equipment.

 

[Lawnboi]

Someone has to say it though, his mustache is pretty gay

I have a hard rule to question anyone who puts product in their facial hair.

 

[JGRaider]

I'd much rather talk to Aaron than some PC CEO who lies to you the whole podcast.

This industry is full of shit for the most part.

About half of the population including the internet, no matter the industry, is FOS as everyone nowadays has an agenda. Tough part is figuring out who you can believe and trust. The one's that rely on the ignorance and laziness of the consumer aren't one of them IMO.

 

[Macintosh]

The one's that rely on the ignorance and laziness of the consumer aren't one of them IMO.

Was that your take on gunwerx, or is that a general observation that doesnt apply in this case?

 

[JGRaider]

Was that your take on gunwerx, or is that a general observation that doesnt apply in this case?

My post is easy to understand, and yes, especially GW. I stated before AD and his pint sized brother made complete asses of themselves at SCi/DSC several years ago, as their condescending arrogance was on display for everyone standing around to see. If they were they only game in town I'd take up archery before giving them any of my $$$.

 

[Chris in TN]

I heard him say that he’s fortunate that he was able to highly leverage his finances to be able to make what he wants, to address the problems that he has, and that he’s carefully selected a target customer that is able to pay for that and has a particular mindset that values his approach, in order to keep the business going. A big company that has to sell big volume has to cater to the center of the bell curve where everything is average. What I heard is that these guys that are crazy-aggressive go-getters with money and not as much time, are the customers it takes to allow a company to be so focused on R&D and solving these highly nuanced problems with a full-system approach. That’s not far from describing a lot of people here on rokslide chasing incremental improvements in their own shooting and hunting. He values his customers because they allow him to run the business he wants, and everybody wins including the whole industry that borrows the best ideas and continues to refine them.

I haven't listened to the podcast but that has pretty much been how I've viewed GW ever since I first heard of them. Yes, I think '1000 yards out of the box' is marketing BS. But let's be honest - if a shooter can handle 1000 yards, he *does* give them a rifle that is up to the task if they are. Sure, they need to validate before they go blasting away.

I'm glad they exist. Also, the production quality of their hunting videos is top notch, even if I *personally* don't want to shoot at game past maybe 500 yards.

 

[Macintosh]

My take is that people spin what they’re hearing to fit their preconceived notion.

One person hears “we’re the best”, and I heard “if there’s one thing Im good at its learning from my mistakes, and Im fortunate to be able to focus on making those improvements”.

Another person hears “laziness”, and I hear “not everyone makes shooting their highest priority that they pour themselves into, but I can still help them with a system designed around efficiency”.

Is it all spin? Sure. Is there giant ego? Sure (and he admitted as much). But both sides of those^^ coins certainly exist within that podcast. And I can easily see how the delivery skews peoples perceptions of what they’re hearing, so its no surprise imo. People with vision and will are usually polarizing ime. I appreciate that people like that exist, and I think we all benefit from it, even if I don’t necessarily want to hang out with some of them.

 

[UKwildcatfan]

The dude is obviously very intelligent, but it doesn't take an ungodly amount of brain cells, or a $10,000 rig, to kill a big game animal. Gone from hunting to shooting. Ol granddad with his 30-06 and 4x Redfield was a hunting machine.

 

[ndlawrence]

As an engineer, I relate to the way Aaron thinks about problems and like listening to him as such. He is an arrogant person.

Most of the GW hate, I believe boils down to envy. People don’t like to see other people drop $15k on something they believe (likely valid) they can do themselves for $4k.

There are people for whom spending $4k vs $15k makes literally no difference. It is no better to spend less or to spend more on something, it’s all just relative. Many people don’t like hearing that.

I’ve had a GW setup. It was great. I no longer have one, and my current setup is great.

Anything past a Tikka with a reliable scope is essentially vanity. I have many and it’s fine, but doesn’t change anything practically. I enjoy nice things but what I wish most is that people would use what they have, and can afford, and go hunt and enjoy it, and spend less time worrying about what the internet says they need to be happy.

Also, I think the RS drop tests are a very practical approach with valid results.

 

[wind gypsy]

Another person hears “laziness”, and I hear “not everyone makes shooting their highest priority that they pour themselves into, but I can still help them with a system designed around efficiency”.

I listened to podcast with Avery first and then Cliffs yesterday during a commute. The bolded point with Cliff was one that stuck with me and made me reconsider some of my negative thoughts. Of course it would be better if everyone learned ballistics the hard way with volume and understanding rather than buying a product that allows them to stay ignorant but we're kidding ourselves if we think that will happen. The tough part is they were still talking about 5-700 yard shots as if they aren't that far with "the system." They aint chip shots for me with equipment that is functionally equivalent and I dont think it's because i'm a worse rifleman / less experienced than most gunwerks customers.

On the flip side do I think a gunwerks "system" customer who's going on high end destination hunts is likely putting more time into validating setup and their own capabilities than a lot of casual hunters with their vx2 w/ CDS or a SFP BDL reticle thats "good to 600 yds"? Uhh, yeah.

 

[Chris in TN]

On the flip side do I think a gunwerks "system" customer who's going on high end destination hunts is likely putting more time into validating setup and their own capabilities than a lot of casual hunters with their vx2 w/ CDS or a SFP BDL reticle thats "good to 600 yds"? Uhh, yeah.

Worth repeating, especially for us people who grew up thinking we could zero 1.62" high at 100 yards, give or take an inch, and be dead on at 200 and 35.7" low at 500, just like the chart on the ammo box said.

 

[bullmtn]

Worth repeating, especially for us people who grew up thinking we could zero 1.62" high at 100 yards, give or take an inch, and be dead on at 200 and 35.7" low at 500, just like the chart on the ammo box said.

As a recovering Engineer with a father that is a VX-3 cultist, I can't tell you how much I agree with you and how much I hate this mindset and how entrapped I was in it; Me at 12 years old shooting a Savage 110 topped with a Nikon Prostaff scope in the Lords cartridge scared to pull the 8lb trigger shooting 3 minute of deer 3 shot groups the day before the season, I had no business shooting past 100yds. I really appreciate all the companies and the "hive mind of the internet" that has helped me innovate and not only become a better hunter/marksman but also help me realize my short comings and create more ethical outlook on hunting. I do not have a Gun Werks system but 100 percent glad they are out there, and he was willing to talk on podcasts about his ideas, not just his products.

 

[Steve O]

As an engineer, I relate to the way Aaron thinks about problems and like listening to him as such. He is an arrogant person.

Most of the GW hate, I believe boils down to envy. People don’t like to see other people drop $15k on something they believe (likely valid) they can do themselves for $4k.

There are people for whom spending $4k vs $15k makes literally no difference. It is no better to spend less or to spend more on something, it’s all just relative. Many people don’t like hearing that.

I’ve had a GW setup. It was great. I no longer have one, and my current setup is great.

Anything past a Tikka with a reliable scope is essentially vanity. I have many and it’s fine, but doesn’t change anything practically. I enjoy nice things but what I wish most is that people would use what they have, and can afford, and go hunt and enjoy it, and spend less time worrying about what the internet says they need to be happy.

Also, I think the RS drop tests are a very practical approach with valid results.

As an engineer…I think our confidence in the correct answer and our lack of effort to be “sensitive” in the delivery of said correct answer is often misinterpreted as arrogance…I get that interpretation from my wife all the time

 

[Fireflyfishing]

My take is that people spin what they’re hearing to fit their preconceived notion.

One person hears “we’re the best”, and I heard “if there’s one thing Im good at its learning from my mistakes, and Im fortunate to be able to focus on making those improvements”.

Another person hears “laziness”, and I hear “not everyone makes shooting their highest priority that they pour themselves into, but I can still help them with a system designed around efficiency”.

Is it all spin? Sure. Is there giant ego? Sure (and he admitted as much). But both sides of those^^ coins certainly exist within that podcast. And I can easily see how the delivery skews peoples perceptions of what they’re hearing, so it’s no surprise imo. People with vision and will are usually polarizing ime. I appreciate that people like that exist, and I think we all benefit from it, even if I don’t necessarily want to hang out with some of them.

I heard him boasting other companies follow his lead on everything they produce. Do they?

I also heard him boast that his customers fly in private aircraft to come and buy his products. That’s nice. Don’t care about any of that really.

He also mentioned his customers are winners and take the biggest and best game out there. By spending how much money to achieve such accomplishments? Of course, if you have so much money you can’t spend it all in one lifetime, you can buy your way into a nice experience and trophy. I’m not opposed to rich people buying what they want. However, his marketing message there didn’t strike home with me…at all. Because that’s not the hunting I do.

Again, didn’t care for his message and condescending tone. So, I turned it off.