Certainly worth a gander.....but don't delete it just because you don't believe it.

[Lowg08]

Please do, even my ultra christian buddy was like "the species changed after the got to where they were going".....so evolution??? How could all of those animals been in one place, then the ark supposedly had a final resting place which would indicate that all the animals got off there.

I tend to believe that mose "miracles" in the bible can be easily explained....walking on water? ice....feeding thousands of people with 2 fish.....giant sturgeon or whales. Turning water into wine? maybe diluting wine with water so there was more to go around. The ark thing though.....

Ok. Look at where the miricales took place. Then put the historical data to play. Could the see of Galilee have been frozen. No. Would a whale be in the Sea of Galilee maybe but how could a child carry a whale in a basket.

 

[bsnedeker]

So evolution occured?

Id imagine a flood was far more likely at the end of an ice age than to cause an ice age.

I can't believe I have to explain all of this to you. Evolution occurs due to the presence of Pokeberries. Once you collect enough pokeberries you are able to evolve into your next form. When God did the flood he also planted a bunch of Pokebushes. Once the animals got off the ark they ate all the pokeberries up and evolved. Now that all those bushes are eaten up there is no more evolution.

This is simple stuff fellas.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Ok. Look at where the miricales took place. Then put the historical data to play. Could the see of Galilee have been frozen. No. Would a whale be in the Sea of Galilee maybe but how could a child carry a whale in a basket.

Seems like a true fish story. The stories just get more and more wild and the fish get bigger and bigger as time goes on.

There have actually been freeze events in that region of the world the events are rare enough that it would make sense that people were very confused when they saw guy walking on the water. I believe there were also trade routes going through the area where people would be transporting fish and other stuff that was not common in the area. There is even a scientific explanation of manna.

 

[Lowg08]

Yeah, but the people doing the exicuting read the language of the original. As a linguist I can tell you language is a slippery thing that involves both creation of a message and interpretation. Even a divine and perfect wording would have to have divinely inspired interpretation.

Plus, now you are arguing that God is too small to get his point across via interpreters and that anything other than the original language cannot be trusted as the word of God. Yet, I will definitive state word searching does not give the same linguistics understanding as speaking the language. Further, languages change over time. So, I guess it was only the word of God for contemporaries of the writers.

It is faith, trying to remove faith is to lay a trap for yourself.

No not saying God is small at all but “ study to show thyself approved”. King James had a hand in the interpretation so man can mess things up. It’s still accomplishing what is supposed too. Look at this conversation. It’s having folks who maybe doubt or don’t believe interact with folks that do. Asking questions that require studying and explaining. So in this translation it has still accomplished it purpose of linking us together to discuss God.

 

[Lowg08]

Seems like a true fish story. The stories just get more and more wild and the fish get bigger and bigger as time goes on.

There have actually been freeze events in that region of the world the events are rare enough that it would make sense that people were very confused when they saw guy walking on the water. I believe there were also trade routes going through the area where people would be transporting fish and other stuff that was not common in the area. There is even a scientific explanation of manna.

There has been freeze events but how much ice does it take to walk on. Then why would the see be tossing and roaring if it was frozen.

 

[roadrunner]

We do see it happening today. Drive by Girdwood and you can see land that was usable in the 1960 and sank to be a brackish marsh following an earthquake. Look at the active growth of the Hawaiian islands through volcanic activity.

Also, are you really arguing that the earth was covered in 5.5 miles of water (referenced to current sea level) and that water just disappeared in 377 days? Where did it go?

If you want to argue for a young earth, perhaps Everest and the Mariana trench were formed during the same cataclysmic event which also involved global flooding.

All anyone needs to do is see the events and aftermath of Mt St. Helens to see the immense change that can suddenly happen.

The Himalayas could not form with slow continental drift but only with rapid continental drift. Not centimeters per year, but miles per hour in movement.

The link to the 2 hour presentation in my earlier post explains the model used to predict and map the breakup of Pangea to where the continents are placed where they are today at the end of the model run. Interesting and compelling if you focus on the science aspect of it.

I do not believe the earth is 4 billion years old.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

The giant flood that is often written about was likely due to collapsing ice sheets that could no longer support their own weight as the temperatures rose. This would not have covered the entire planet but it would seem that way to people who likely never went more than 50 miles from the place they were born in.

 

[Lowg08]

Look at the time period. Then time period of climate. Someone was always recording. Scribes and such. That’s why we have so much history. It just takes time.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

All anyone needs to do is see the events and aftermath of Mt St. Helens to see the immense change that can suddenly happen.

The Himalayas could not form with slow continental drift but only with rapid continental drift. Not centimeters per year, but miles per hour in movement.

The link to the 2 hour presentation in my earlier post explains the model used to predict and map the breakup of Pangea to where the continents are placed where they are today at the end of the model run. Interesting and compelling if you focus on the science aspect of it.

I do not believe the earth is 4 billion years old.

You are correct in that while the plate that is now india was moving very fast compared to other plate movement it would have hit with some "force" causing a large initial change which would naturally be slowed by the resistance from the other plates. While the indian plate subducts it pushes the other plate up. pretty basic geology, I remember that from college and that was like 20 years ago.

The majority of the changes happened slowly over tens or hundreds of millions of years. Same with the erosion that makes gigantic canyons across the earth, those took many millions of years, not a few thousand years.

 

[Wvroach]

How many species of animals are there of living things on this earth? Were there Polar bears, Dall sheep, Rocky Mountain Elk, Lions, Mammoths, Sharks, Grey Whales there on Noahs farm?

Serious question...

Though I know this is in jest and nothing I say will be heard by you. Maybe someone else questioning it actually would like a sincere answer I'll give you one.

Genesis chapter 6:19-20 is what you are referencing.

19- And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

20-Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

It is not 2 of every animal it is 2 of each kind. Speciation is basically accepted universally. That means that Noah would not have had to bring 2 German shepherds, 2 Pomeranians, 2 coyotes, etc. What he would have had to bring was 2 Canines, which later would have branched out into different breeds of the same species. The same would go for the vast majority of the animals brought on to the ark.

There are several different types of "evolution"

Cosmic, chemical, organic, stellar, macro and finally micro(the one that we can scientifically prove.)It is observable and repeatable that adaptations happen within the same kind of animals. I.e. Darwin's finches, modern felines and canines, people etc..

The other portion of your question if he had whales on the ark, why would he? Plenty of water around, no need for the insects, amphibians, birds etc either. They would not have had to be on the ark.

I'd suggest for anyone looking at how the ark would have been, even for atheist or agnostics just to get a different perspective look in to Ken hams ark recreation.

 

[Marbles]

No not saying God is small at all but “ study to show thyself approved”. King James had a hand in the interpretation so man can mess things up. It’s still accomplishing what is supposed too. Look at this conversation. It’s having folks who maybe doubt or don’t believe interact with folks that do. Asking questions that require studying and explaining. So in this translation it has still accomplished it purpose of linking us together to discuss God.

While Galileo was not exicuted, he was placed under house arrest for stating the heliocentric model. Galileo died in 1642. While the KJV Bible was published in 1611, Galileo was Italian, thus those who persecuted him would have never read the KJV. So, the issue was not one of something being lost in translation.

 

[roadrunner]

So evolution occured?

Id imagine a flood was far more likely at the end of an ice age than to cause an ice age.

"Evolution" only occurs within the limits of an existing genetic code, or in layman's terms, recessive traits. A land animal cannot suddenly get wings if the genetic code doesn't already exist for those wings to become a reality. A fish doesn't develop lungs if that genetic code isn't part of the fish already.

Rapid plate subduction explaining a global flooding event also releases mass amounts of heat energy. That heat energy causes evaporation and the flashing of water into steam on a colossal scale. That steam condenses into rain in "biblical proportions" and also rapid cooling of the atmosphere resulting in the poles of the planet to form ice sheets as the rain turns to snow on the way down. These events occurred after the rapid release of water from beneath the ground (we all know there are underground water reservoirs). The flood is explained more from tsunami type events as plates rapid moved around and shifted. This is the only way fossil graveyards can exist where one animal is piled on top of another.

Fossilization cannot be a slow depositional process, it requires a rapid burial of the specimen. Too many bacterial critters would decompose it to nothing first if it were a slow process.

 

[Lowg08]

Though I know this is in jest and nothing I say will be heard by you. Maybe someone else questioning it actually would like a sincere answer I'll give you one.

Genesis chapter 6:19-20 is what you are referencing.

19- And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

20-Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

It is not 2 of every animal it is 2 of each kind. Speciation is basically accepted universally. That means that Noah would not have had to bring 2 German shepherds, 2 Pomeranians, 2 coyotes, etc. What he would have had to bring was 2 Canines, which later would have branched out into different breeds of the same species. The same would go for the vast majority of the animals brought on to the ark.

There are several different types of "evolution"

Cosmic, chemical, organic, stellar, macro and finally micro(the one that we can scientifically prove. It is observable and repeatable that adaptations happen within the same kind of animals. I.e. Darwin's finches, modern felines and canines, people etc..

The other portion of your question if he had whales on the ark, why would he? Plenty of water around, no need for the insects, amphibians, birds etc either. They would not have had to be on the ark.

I'd suggest for anyone looking at how the ark would have been, even for atheist or agnostica just to get a different perspective look in to Ken hams ark recreation.

This is an excellent answer. Something I had even looked over. Thank you

 

[roadrunner]

You are correct in that while the plate that is now india was moving very fast compared to other plate movement it would have hit with some "force" causing a large initial change which would naturally be slowed by the resistance from the other plates. While the indian plate subducts it pushes the other plate up. pretty basic geology, I remember that from college and that was like 20 years ago.

The majority of the changes happened slowly over tens or hundreds of millions of years. Same with the erosion that makes gigantic canyons across the earth, those took many millions of years, not a few thousand years.

Not true. Slow erosion doesn't form canyons. Rapid water movement does. Check out what a creek, river, or a wash (as we call them in the desert southwest) looks like after a massive rain storm. Grand Canyon was formed from a massive and sudden release of water, not a slow meandering river.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Not true. Slow erosion doesn't form canyons. Rapid water movement does. Check out what a creek, river, or a wash (as we call them in the desert southwest) looks like after a massive rain storm. Grand Canyon was formed from a massive and sudden release of water, not a slow meandering river.

Then why is water still flowing there? because its from the same source that has been from for millions of years.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

"Evolution" only occurs within the limits of an existing genetic code, or in layman's terms, recessive traits. A land animal cannot suddenly get wings if the genetic code doesn't already exist for those wings to become a reality. A fish doesn't develop lungs if that genetic code isn't part of the fish already.

Rapid plate subduction explaining a global flooding event also releases mass amounts of heat energy. That heat energy causes evaporation and the flashing of water into steam on a colossal scale. That steam condenses into rain in "biblical proportions" and also rapid cooling of the atmosphere resulting in the poles of the planet to form ice sheets as the rain turns to snow on the way down. These events occurred after the rapid release of water from beneath the ground (we all know there are underground water reservoirs). The flood is explained more from tsunami type events as plates rapid moved around and shifted. This is the only way fossil graveyards can exist where one animal is piled on top of another.

Fossilization cannot be a slow depositional process, it requires a rapid burial of the specimen. Too many bacterial critters would decompose it to nothing first if it were a slow process.

This is such a cop out. Wow.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Here is my question. Ask this. Why would earth seemingly unchanged for several thousand years Why would tectonic plates stop moving in such a way that creates mountains such as Everest stop performing this task. We can not stop it. We can not start it. This should be common and still on going if this was a viable answer.

 

[Wvroach]

@thinhorn_AK

Since you seem so determined to throw questions with mockery as your primary goal. Why don't you answer these for me?

Why is the Earth's core cooling at a accelerated rate now that would disprove the billions of years?

Why is the ocean salinity only around 34ppt now if it has existed for billions of years?

Why are the cliffs of Dover still there with erosion over millions or billions of years?

How is the moon still pulling away from earth at a rate of 2 inches a year over the 4.4 billion years it would have moved quicker the closer it was but we can go with the current estimated rate.

Show me one proof of life coming from non life please.

Your's is just as much of a religious belief as mine. No need to try to make a mockery of someone with differing opinions or beliefs.

 

[bsnedeker]

@thinhorn_AK


Show me one proof of life coming from non life please.

Where did God come from? Show me proof of a God being created out of nothing.


Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Wvroach]

Where did God come from? Show me proof of a God being created out of nothing.


Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

God is eternal, not bound by space time or matter. He always has been and always will be. He is not confined by the limitations of man.