Can we unite as Hunters?

[Bolt]

We are NOT going to lose the hunting of other species because more wolves and cats are on the landscape. The "slippery slope" argument just doesn't hold weight for me.

Yes, there will be fewer animals and fewer tags. Most states only share 10% of those tags with me anyway.

It's an ebb & flow. Maybe the state voters/agency/legislature will eventually see the relationship between a cat hunting ban and decreased NR tag/point revenue. Then, the pendulum swings and state X opens back up cat hunting, wolf hunting, etc... Or, they learn to live without those NR dollars and I buy more beef.

This is almost exclusively a hound issue. Hound hunting is often ugly and isn't fair chase. I'm more than willing to sacrifice all hound hunting to improve the image of hunting generally.

I don't hound hunt and this guy is annoying. Please take your guns to a local buyback and leave the hunting to the men in this forum.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Hnthrdr]

No shit! Pardon my French lol

We need a houndsman on here to take this FNG on a hunt to see how fair it really is with dogs

Hell I’ll pretend houndsmen suck if it gets me a hunt lol

 

[7mm-08]

The short (and long) answer is "no." Just review the previous posts and you'll figure it out quickly.

 

[Gobbler36]

I personally believe it’s next to impossible
too many subcultures within hunting and it’s also a finite resource that that we all want to make sure we have our own slice of the pie And with social media days now we all want a bigger slice than the next guy, along with 15 elk tags a year. greed has already infiltrated deep in our community and I don’t for see anyone willing to give any ground

this is just my take.

 

[fishslap]

Nope. Look at this thread, the thread on lowering standards for mule deer (turd festival), or pretty much anything on bowsite.

 

[Gobbler36]

Nope. Not gonna happen. We can’t unite because of about a million reasons. There’s guys on this sight totally ok with banning bait , or hounds, or it’s cool to DIY but it’s not cool to pay for private access.

Me personally I literally don’t care how or why you hunt as long as 1.) it’s legal, and 2.) you don’t tell me how or what to hunt.

If we all agreed to not crapping on each other regardless of residency or hunting style maybe we could unite.

I would love to not care how people hunt but where would that end? I think one reason we can’t is 90% of hunters truly could care less about the resource. as long as guys can get monetary value outta kill pics, thermal imaging, drones, cell cam, gps Tracking nocks, scouting services, rifles and bows that dudes try to extend their range further and further. all this puts the resource at risk, but most do not care as long as they get their grip and grin. should we care if eventually we are shooting deer from our couch from an iPad just because that person self proclaims as a hunter and buys a tag?

 

[TWHrunner]

What I've noticed is this:

Conservatives are often loners and independent souls. They have the, "I do what I want. You go do what you want."
It isn't that they don't care about the outdoors, wildlife or conservation. They'd rather be outdoors rather than standing around with a bunch of politicos, trying to get more/less regulation.

Liberals, on the other hand, are the lynch mob in the middle of the street, screaming their desires.
The greatest percentage of them are ignorant of what they want done, they're just "following the crowd" because that's just what they do! ..... and as far as they're concerned. Gov't regulation is "good"!

This. Spot on.

 

[TWHrunner]

After reading through this thread, all I can say is wow

Exactly. You see we’ve answered the original question very clearly by all chiming in. We don’t want to get along, because we just don’t get along. We’re hunters. Not campers. Sorry. It’s in our nature.

 

[MuleyFever]

 

[ODB]

What I've noticed is this:

Conservatives are often loners and independent souls. They have the, "I do what I want. You go do what you want."
It isn't that they don't care about the outdoors, wildlife or conservation. They'd rather be outdoors rather than standing around with a bunch of politicos, trying to get more/less regulation.

Liberals, on the other hand, are the lynch mob in the middle of the street, screaming their desires.
The greatest percentage of them are ignorant of what they want done, they're just "following the crowd" because that's just what they do! ..... and as far as they're concerned. Gov't regulation is "good"!

This guy gets it.

And it is why, if you stand back and notice, conservatives are almost always in defense mode. They are like the husband after he hears his wife calling frantically from another room: (with eye roll, head shake) "What NOW?!"

 

[Swamp Fox]

I think all hunters should unite and publicly speak out against the Butt-out tool.

It's not our problem if you didn't read the directions and twisted wrong ...

 

[TWHrunner]

View attachment 646455

I agree. 100%. Can’t stop it. We’ve been trying for decades.

 

[Northpark]

I would love to not care how people hunt but where would that end? I think one reason we can’t is 90% of hunters truly could care less about the resource. as long as guys can get monetary value outta kill pics, thermal imaging, drones, cell cam, gps Tracking nocks, scouting services, rifles and bows that dudes try to extend their range further and further. all this puts the resource at risk, but most do not care as long as they get their grip and grin. should we care if eventually we are shooting deer from our couch from an iPad just because that person self proclaims as a hunter and buys a tag?

It ends where we let professionals like biologists set tag quotas and manage species scientifically. You want to shoot a deer with a rifle in august? Well if the biologists say it’s ok and the state issues a tag then go for it. You want to scout or hunt with a drone? Go for it provided it’s legal which I’m pretty sure it’s not in every state.. I don’t use cell cams or game cams at all, AZ made them illegal. Doesn’t mean I think people in Kansas shouldn’t use them. These are all things that some hunters don’t like. I still do not care about what other hunters do as long as the professional biologists are good with the number and type of animals being taken.

Now an example of how this works is that let’s say they legalize drone hunting. Ok cool. Billy bob goes out gets him a drone and starts to really figure out the deer. Well his success rate goes through the roof and so does everyone else’s. Instead of a 10% success rate we get a 70% success rate. So now instead of 10 deer getting killed 70 deer got killed. Well the bio isn’t to happy with that. After all they sold 100 tags to result in 10 deer killed not 70. So next year drones are still legal. Bio only issues 15 tags instead of 100 because he knows a 70% success rate is likely. Now this year only 10 deer are killed so the harvest was sustainable. A lot of folks are upset because they didn’t get a tag and didn’t get to hunt that unit but hey the resource is protected. The flip side is we can say no drones and still put out 100 tags and kill 10 deer.

The point is that as social media, technology, etc advances let the biologists do what they need to do and support them. And if someone wants to hunt and put up a YouTube video or a grip and grin on Facebook as long as everything is legal and honest then don’t put them down. You don’t have to watch the video or look at the pictures but you don’t have to talk trash about them either. Now if they get caught doing something illegal then ya bash away and distinguish poaching vs hunting.

I care about the resource and habitat. I work in natural resources management after all so that is something very important to me. I do complain about hunters but it’s not how or why they are hunting. It’s about the fires they leave unattended or the trash they leave behind. Both illegal by the way.

 

[diamond10x]

It ends where we let professionals like biologists set tag quotas and manage species scientifically. You want to shoot a deer with a rifle in august? Well if the biologists say it’s ok and the state issues a tag then go for it. You want to scout or hunt with a drone? Go for it provided it’s legal which I’m pretty sure it’s not in every state.. I don’t use cell cams or game cams at all, AZ made them illegal. Doesn’t mean I think people in Kansas shouldn’t use them. These are all things that some hunters don’t like. I still do not care about what other hunters do as long as the professional biologists are good with the number and type of animals being taken.

Now an example of how this works is that let’s say they legalize drone hunting. Ok cool. Billy bob goes out gets him a drone and starts to really figure out the deer. Well his success rate goes through the roof and so does everyone else’s. Instead of a 10% success rate we get a 70% success rate. So now instead of 10 deer getting killed 70 deer got killed. Well the bio isn’t to happy with that. After all they sold 100 tags to result in 10 deer killed not 70. So next year drones are still legal. Bio only issues 15 tags instead of 100 because he knows a 70% success rate is likely. Now this year only 10 deer are killed so the harvest was sustainable. A lot of folks are upset because they didn’t get a tag and didn’t get to hunt that unit but hey the resource is protected. The flip side is we can say no drones and still put out 100 tags and kill 10 deer.

The point is that as social media, technology, etc advances let the biologists do what they need to do and support them. And if someone wants to hunt and put up a YouTube video or a grip and grin on Facebook as long as everything is legal and honest then don’t put them down. You don’t have to watch the video or look at the pictures but you don’t have to talk trash about them either. Now if they get caught doing something illegal then ya bash away and distinguish poaching vs hunting.

I care about the resource and habitat. I work in natural resources management after all so that is something very important to me. I do complain about hunters but it’s not how or why they are hunting. It’s about the fires they leave unattended or the trash they leave behind. Both illegal by the way.

Very well stated. Never understood why or how this is such a hard concept to grasp. Plenty of means or methods I don’t personally like or will ever partake in but I’ll still always support it.

People are too selfish and or want more daddy govt to tell others what they can and can’t do.

 

[Gobbler36]

It ends where we let professionals like biologists set tag quotas and manage species scientifically. You want to shoot a deer with a rifle in august? Well if the biologists say it’s ok and the state issues a tag then go for it. You want to scout or hunt with a drone? Go for it provided it’s legal which I’m pretty sure it’s not in every state.. I don’t use cell cams or game cams at all, AZ made them illegal. Doesn’t mean I think people in Kansas shouldn’t use them. These are all things that some hunters don’t like. I still do not care about what other hunters do as long as the professional biologists are good with the number and type of animals being taken.

Now an example of how this works is that let’s say they legalize drone hunting. Ok cool. Billy bob goes out gets him a drone and starts to really figure out the deer. Well his success rate goes through the roof and so does everyone else’s. Instead of a 10% success rate we get a 70% success rate. So now instead of 10 deer getting killed 70 deer got killed. Well the bio isn’t to happy with that. After all they sold 100 tags to result in 10 deer killed not 70. So next year drones are still legal. Bio only issues 15 tags instead of 100 because he knows a 70% success rate is likely. Now this year only 10 deer are killed so the harvest was sustainable. A lot of folks are upset because they didn’t get a tag and didn’t get to hunt that unit but hey the resource is protected. The flip side is we can say no drones and still put out 100 tags and kill 10 deer.

The point is that as social media, technology, etc advances let the biologists do what they need to do and support them. And if someone wants to hunt and put up a YouTube video or a grip and grin on Facebook as long as everything is legal and honest then don’t put them down. You don’t have to watch the video or look at the pictures but you don’t have to talk trash about them either. Now if they get caught doing something illegal then ya bash away and distinguish poaching vs hunting.

I care about the resource and habitat. I work in natural resources management after all so that is something very important to me. I do complain about hunters but it’s not how or why they are hunting. It’s about the fires they leave unattended or the trash they leave behind. Both illegal by the way.

I’ll agree to disagree just because something is legal doesn’t mean I have to agree with it nor support it, and would argue that in your drone example the increased success just hurt hunters massively Because those same people that take these short cuts to success are most likely not the ones caring about the resource and conserving them. they care more about improving the pump not the well.

 

[roadrunner]

Last thing, anyone who feels the slippery slope argument is BS is willfully ignorant. There are multiple case studies of states (WA, OR, CA, NJ, etc) banning legal means of take, having it completely backfire, and then doubling down on the pathos-based management decisions.

You forgot NM banned trapping on public lands a couple years ago via ballot.

 

[ODB]

I have always liked this Ted Talk. Jonathan Haidt spends a lot of time thinking about why we are the way we are. This one is about the moral basis' of conservatives and liberals. If you really pay attention (unlike many of the audience members) you will see that conservatives consider and try to balance more variables than liberals. I think (whether you personally identify as such) hunting is largely a conservative-based activity. When you filter it through Haidt's 5 factors, it is very easy to see why conservatives struggle with nuance-filled things like hunting and liberals largely do not , e.g. if it involves killing animals, a liberal is likely to simply say NO, whereas a conservative considers more factors: traditions, use of meat, balance of populations, enjoyment of activity, etc).

Like (or believe) it or not, it's the liberal who lives in a simplistic, reductive world, not the conservative.

How to unite? Simple. Act like liberals and just answer YES to all hunting/trapping/fishing all the time.

The moral roots of liberals and conservatives

Psychologist Jonathan Haidt studies the five moral values that form the basis of our political choices, whether we're left, right or center. In this eye-opening talk, he pinpoints the moral values that liberals and conservatives tend to honor most.

www.ted.com

 

[Amos Keeto]

It ends where we let professionals like biologists set tag quotas and manage species scientifically. You want to shoot a deer with a rifle in august? Well if the biologists say it’s ok and the state issues a tag then go for it. You want to scout or hunt with a drone? Go for it provided it’s legal which I’m pretty sure it’s not in every state.. I don’t use cell cams or game cams at all, AZ made them illegal. Doesn’t mean I think people in Kansas shouldn’t use them. These are all things that some hunters don’t like. I still do not care about what other hunters do as long as the professional biologists are good with the number and type of animals being taken.

Now an example of how this works is that let’s say they legalize drone hunting. Ok cool. Billy bob goes out gets him a drone and starts to really figure out the deer. Well his success rate goes through the roof and so does everyone else’s. Instead of a 10% success rate we get a 70% success rate. So now instead of 10 deer getting killed 70 deer got killed. Well the bio isn’t to happy with that. After all they sold 100 tags to result in 10 deer killed not 70. So next year drones are still legal. Bio only issues 15 tags instead of 100 because he knows a 70% success rate is likely. Now this year only 10 deer are killed so the harvest was sustainable. A lot of folks are upset because they didn’t get a tag and didn’t get to hunt that unit but hey the resource is protected. The flip side is we can say no drones and still put out 100 tags and kill 10 deer.

The point is that as social media, technology, etc advances let the biologists do what they need to do and support them. And if someone wants to hunt and put up a YouTube video or a grip and grin on Facebook as long as everything is legal and honest then don’t put them down. You don’t have to watch the video or look at the pictures but you don’t have to talk trash about them either. Now if they get caught doing something illegal then ya bash away and distinguish poaching vs hunting.

I care about the resource and habitat. I work in natural resources management after all so that is something very important to me. I do complain about hunters but it’s not how or why they are hunting. It’s about the fires they leave unattended or the trash they leave behind. Both illegal by the way.

Yeppers, I care about the resource AND the habitat. They go hand-in-hand!

Here is a study in irony!

Texas archery season opens Oct 1.
No "Primitive Arms" (muzzle loader) season
Deer "Gun" season opens Nov 1 (?) and runs until the first day or two of Jan.
Texas hunting licensing runs 9-1 thru 8-31.

Oklahoma archery season opens Oct 1.
"Primitive Arms" season is 1 week and is the last of Oct and into Nov.
Regular gun season opens the Saturday before Thanksgiving and closes the first Sunday in Dec.
"Bonus Antlerless" opens the Monday before Christmas and runs for 2 weeks.

Texas gets 3 months of Archery and 2 months (+/-) for a general gun season.

RIGHT ACROSS THE RED RIVER....
WE get 3 months of archery, 1 week of "Primitive Arms", 2 weeks of "Regular Gun" and a 2 week "antlerless" season!

This has nothing to do with population! We have deer out the wahzoo here in OK!

Other than limits (OK 7, TX 5) tell me why TX gets 8 weeks to gun hunt, but here in OK, we only get 4 with 2 of those weeks, "Antlerless Only"?

 

[NRA4LIFE]

We also lost the use of body gripping traps here in WA via ballot.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Any opportunity to have hunters come together are long gone. There is just too much hyper polarization.

Hunters are too easily triggered, hunters constantly deride each other when others' "wrong" views do not align with their "right" views, too many non-residents believe that they and they alone provide 100% of all hunting dollars and deserve to get to hunt what they hunt when the want and the frequency they want, you have too many resident hunters that want to keep all in-state hunting opportunities to themselves, there is too much animosity between hunters based upon their weapon of choice, inability to agree on realistic minimum sizes on all species, too many hunters have "superiority" attitudes worse than vegans, etc.

You could never get something like Pittman-Robertson passed today.