Can we unite as Hunters?

[S.Clancy]

Ultimately, it boils down to the people participating. It really boils down to 2 things:

1. The vast majority of hunters have no grasp of the science behind conservation, habitat and wildlife management. We, as a group, are freaking morons. Because of the lack of knowledge, we incessantly argue, where, if we even had a rudimentary grasp of the science, there are a lot of things we would immediately agree with and push forward on. The success of the NA Model of Wildlife Conservation is rooted in education and knowledge. We, as hunters, have abandoned that.

2. Today's breed of hunter are not only stupid (from a science-based conservation perspective) but are also, by and large, very selfish. See the constant NR vs Resident arguments, long-range, compound vs primitive archery, etc. These arguments are all about selfishness, about "I pay the money I deserve this! If I don't get what I want I am going to spite the person who has what I want....". In none of those conversations is there anything about the resource.


The generation that brought the vast majority huntable species back from the brink was both knowledgeable and selfless. Our current generation is neither.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

We need less hunters not more. If people drop out due to frustration over this or that i think that’s great and a huge step towards preserving hunting for those willing to actually put in the effort needed to do it.

Hunting is the fabric of humanity. Just because l
urbanites who pay people to change their oil because they don’t know how don’t like hunting doesn’t mean it’s going anywhere. I’ve heard this stuff since i started hunting in the 80s yet here i am, still hunting. I’ve not lost a single right to hunt since those days.

What i have lost is un molested and un touched spots to hunt which has degraded the hunting in general. Can only blame the onx toting, crossbow toting (cause you know it’s just as hard as archery), e biking in (cause walking makes you sweat), flat bill wearing Youtube addicts for that. I can’t wait for them to lose interest so we can make hunting great again.

This post is the perfect example of why hunters will likely never come together again on anything meaningful.

1) You have someone that denigrates a subset of hunters based upon their GPS/mapping choices.
2) You have someone that denigrates a subset of hunters based upon their weapon choice which happens to also include CHAMP hunters (extra dumb ass points for alienating that segment of the hunting population and those that champion their causes throughout society).
3) You have someone that denigrates a subset of hunters for the type of hat chose and how they wear that hat.
4) You have someone that denigrates a subset of hunters based upon a source of their hunting information.

It'd be nice if the ass hats of the hunting world would stop bashing other hunters for the most trivial of things as well as stop attempting to force their POS belief systems on other hunters. But in the real world this will not happen as the ass hats' heads are so far up their collective asses that they cannot see that they are a sizable part of the problem.

 

[CMP70306]

My sadly honest opinion is that no we can’t unite because hunters are far too selfish.

I was reading just the other day about a guy that has spent millions on tags where his trophy room has benefited more than anything, his comment in the article was that he was leaving a legacy. I can’t think of the amount of lands he could have purchased and opened to everyone, large scale projects he could have funded, money he could have put to lobbying efforts; instead he has filled a trophy room and IMO eroded public hunting by furthering the push that those with the funds get extra and special opportunities

On the flip side where do you think all of his money went? He didn’t get all those animals by burying it in the ground for no one else to have. By default if he spent it on tags, even the exclusive high dollar auction ones, it went to conservation groups, various State Game Agencies, outfitters etc. and he still benefited hunters through those funds.

Ultimately, it boils down to the people participating. It really boils down to 2 things:

1. The vast majority of hunters have no grasp of the science behind conservation, habitat and wildlife management. We, as a group, are freaking morons. Because of the lack of knowledge, we incessantly argue, where, if we even had a rudimentary grasp of the science, there are a lot of things we would immediately agree with and push forward on. The success of the NA Model of Wildlife Conservation is rooted in education and knowledge. We, as hunters, have abandoned that.

2. Today's breed of hunter are not only stupid (from a science-based conservation perspective) but are also, by and large, very selfish. See the constant NR vs Resident arguments, long-range, compound vs primitive archery, etc. These arguments are all about selfishness, about "I pay the money I deserve this! If I don't get what I want I am going to spite the person who has what I want....". In none of those conversations is there anything about the resource.


The generation that brought the vast majority huntable species back from the brink was both knowledgeable and selfless. Our current generation is neither.

The generation that brought those species back was neither, they were forced to do so by the government whether they wanted to or not. Just read back through the history books and there are tons of examples of hunters literally killing game wardens over not being able to hunt like they wanted. Not to mention rampant poaching and all manner of trespassing back then, it’s not the rosy picture of selflessness that allowed those animals to flourish. It was the government setting highly conservative seasons and bag limits to allow the animals the chance to recover.

As far as stupid and selfish by and large the older generations of hunters that I see are far less likely to care about the animals themselves and have little regard for their conservation. Here in PA the entire North Central part of the state has substantially lower deer populations than it should because hunters decided seeing herds of 50+ deer getting bounced around during rifle was more important than a healthy habitat. As such they refused to shoot does and as a result the habitat was over browsed to the point it never fully recovered. This habitat could no longer support the level of deer that it used to and after several hard winters in the 70’s and 80’ greatly diminished the deer population it never recovered anywhere close to what it was.

Same with the elk, they are regulated to the most remote parts of the state because farmers, who are also hunters, would use crop damage rules as an excuse to shoot them. This all predates the current generation of hunters by several decades so it certainly isn’t a modern issue.

 

[COLD SMOKE]

Preface this that I’m a newer hunter, i live in CA rn, hunt blacktail, turkey, and bear locally within a 50 mile radius of my house.
and i also have had a manbun and a flat hat before.

have consistently seen that I appreciate a lot of the older hunters who hunt my grounds and live in my zone. There was a decent amount of hunters 1970s- 90s and the local hardware stores walls reflect that. A nice assortment of antlers, bears, lions, moose, all the small game fur bearing animals. If you poked a good one then you would bring it to Al the local ace hardware owner and he put it up. I love going into our hometown ace for a quick stop and looking at old photos, and bullshiting with the owner about hunting fishing times past.

Seems like having a community place to appreciate the good times / photos / trophy’s is key fostering a community. Our local VFW is another but it’s full of crusty old drinkers which I just can’t or won’t spend time there.

The 60-80 year old hunter is usually a pleasure to talk to, has good insights and observations, can be unbiased and have a conversation with someone younger who is respectful. Even if they don’t “look” like a hunter. Some of my fav hunters who are now in the happy hunting grounds did not “look” like hunters. They were intelligent, they were not politically partisan, they dressed sharp. But make no mistake they had a lifetime outdoors traveling the world hunting and fishing.

They all say:
1. Hunting local was much easier in the past, Deer population was exponentially larger and good genetics were common.
2. Poaching was rampant in the past. I’ve talked to old timers in the area I live now
( we didn’t get electricity until 1955) who grew up on venison and kerosene lamps. They all
Say it was common for loggers to bring home meat any season. Deer lion and bear.

3. We live in the clearcut area of CA and the forest looks like garbage. All private projects are inevitably hack jobs. SPI and local Loggers are 100% to blame. They have the chance to increase habitat and make the forest a mixed growth canopy they harbors diversity and they consistently
Produce 20 acre blocks of dog turds.
I’m unequivocal about this
SPI, green diamond etc are a big reason OTC in the Sierra is declining.

dont like oligarchies, they don’t produce jobs any more, mills are all shut down locally, forest is gated and the hacked clear cuts are a joke. Especially if they squirt all the undergrowth and it’s just a chapparal
Fire trap.

NO ONE knows it. Why ? It’s hard to access.

They ( specifically SPI) control the access to some of the best hunting land, ( they again SPI, bought public land privatized by the USA govt on credit from Asian investors and just roll there weight around now. )

Recently bought 70k acres in modoc, our opportunities are behind private property.

These timber belts are their cash cow and they don’t want people seeing what they are doing
.

I personally think logging is a viable industry and it could regenerate these rural areas. Get local
Mills back, get local builders/contractors using these boards in owner builds, hire more sawyers and less processors. Spend more time prioritizing shaded fuel breaks and replant undergrowth beneath the breaks for diversity.
Prioritize waterways and habitat. Especially the older trees. If is 50” DBA then leave it. We need to build our forests back this takes a canopy of old growth.
Create new springs and ponds in the backcountry. Water trucks can dip for dust control and it is a literal oasis. Theres a way to create beautiful multi use forests that are managed for hunting/fishing.
Obviously I think privatized billionaire lumber companies who care about profits not habitat is a big obstacle. at least where I am.

Alright that’s a rant but it’s a big obstacle when it comes to unifying. We need access and our rural communities need to have growth.

Also get game
Wardens that are local, quit hiring LEOs outta military.
Hire them for their brains and ability for community outreach and habitats projects that can be joint pub/private ventures.

Have an annual mixer that invites diverse groups
Hunters, enduro riders, mushroom foragers, gold
Miners would be a good cross section where I live.
Have each group give a presentation and then break into groups to discuss ways to collaborate with each other to provide access to the grounds we want to utilize.

Just a couple ideas as a newer younger hunter who hopes to continue to hunt and grow engagement with the younger generations.
I’m having a meeting with hunting buds ( well a NYE party) and will bring up ways we can unite.

It’s as easy as planning a hunt with a friend and growing a community that accepts hunters no matter what they look like. I like to hunt solo but I think I’d have a lot more meat in the freezers if I teamed up and used strategy to move WITH other hunters.

The tenets
Are access, preservation, opportunity for new and experienced hunters, social gatherings to build the community and provide new experiences.

 

[TheTone]

On the flip side where do you think all of his money went? He didn’t get all those animals by burying it in the ground for no one else to have. By default if he spent it on tags, even the exclusive high dollar auction ones, it went to conservation groups, various State Game Agencies, outfitters etc. and he still benefited hunters through those funds.

I guess my thought and view on this is yes to some extent. Those buying their way to the front of the line every year make this argument while also trying to get themselves more ways to buy themselves opportunities while everyone else waits. The person I referred to absolutely tried to do this in my home state and thankfully it came back to bite him and basically got him removed from a conservation group.

Also many of the groups pushing for auction tags and the like don’t have the cleanest financials and often the group benefits first and most before it trickles down to any conservation work.

 

[Q child]

Nah. Teamwork isn’t my thing.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

This post is the perfect example of why hunters will likely never come together again on anything meaningful.

1) You have someone that denigrates a subset of hunters based upon their GPS/mapping choices.
2) You have someone that denigrates a subset of hunters based upon their weapon choice which happens to also include CHAMP hunters (extra dumb ass points for alienating that segment of the hunting population and those that champion their causes throughout society).
3) You have someone that denigrates a subset of hunters for the type of hat chose and how they wear that hat.
4) You have someone that denigrates a subset of hunters based upon a source of their hunting information.

It'd be nice if the ass hats of the hunting world would stop bashing other hunters for the most trivial of things as well as stop attempting to force their POS belief systems on other hunters. But in the real world this will not happen as the ass hats' heads are so far up their collective asses that they cannot see that they are a sizable part of the problem.

You sound offended?

Just cause someone hunts doesn’t mean we are all on the same team.

Have more hunters on any given property than the property can support and the quality of the hunt declines. This is pretty much where we are at right now in most of the country.

My solution is less hunters cause they aren’t making more public lands to hunt, quite the opposite really. Sitting around holding hands, singing kumbaya, and “supporting” guys too lazy to read a map or learn how to accurately shoot a bow or really put in any of the required effort it takes to hunt big game doesn’t help preserve hunting. It makes hunting worse.

Sorry, your comment doesn’t gain any traction with me. You want to hunt put in the required effort. If that’s too much work for you find another hobby. Hunting won’t vanish because someone who lacks woodsmanship and motivation hangs it up. Hunting will vanish when those who do have woodsmanship and motivation hang it up because they’re fed up with all the people out there and decline in the overall quality of hunting.

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

If hunters would educate themselves and be aware of all the issues I think we could unite. I use to be all about tag cuts for better quality deer, but I realize that means less people hunting every year. Which in turn can lead to hunters having a smaller voice. People can change, we could unite. Also, pay attention who you are voting for, and educate those around you. Many people don't pay attention.

 

[ladogg411]

Yeah, wow. You need to rethink this attitude. You need only to look at WA and how that has worked out for us. 25+ years of hound bans for bear and cougar plus wolf introduction and look what happened to our herds. All of them. And now you will have wolves. Good luck with all of this.

Isn't WA cat harvest up 50% since the hound ban? Because after the hound ban, WA increased the season from 7 weeks to 7 months and slashed tag cost. Hunters have more than made up the difference.

Colorado hunters can certainly risk losing ALL cat hunting if that is their choice. But they may look back on this and wish they had supported giving voters a second proposition option that would ban ONLY hound hunting.

 

[Swamp Fox]

[...]

Colorado hunters can certainly risk losing ALL cat hunting if that is their choice. But they may look back on this and wish they had supported giving voters a second proposition option that would ban ONLY hound hunting.

Okey dokey ...

 

[magtech]

Can we? yes. Will we? Doubtful. Most people in the hunting/fishing arena are the bottom of the barrel.

Just look at how selfish people are in the resident/non-resident debate.

Be a non-res and talk to locals about their strategies for a specific area.

Good luck with that.

 

[Gobbler36]

You sound offended?

Just cause someone hunts doesn’t mean we are all on the same team.

Have more hunters on any given property than the property can support and the quality of the hunt declines. This is pretty much where we are at right now in most of the country.

My solution is less hunters cause they aren’t making more public lands to hunt, quite the opposite really. Sitting around holding hands, singing kumbaya, and “supporting” guys too lazy to read a map or learn how to accurately shoot a bow or really put in any of the required effort it takes to hunt big game doesn’t help preserve hunting. It makes hunting worse.

Sorry, your comment doesn’t gain any traction with me. You want to hunt put in the required effort. If that’s too much work for you find another hobby. Hunting won’t vanish because someone who lacks woodsmanship and motivation hangs it up. Hunting will vanish when those who do have woodsmanship and motivation hang it up because they’re fed up with all the people out there and decline in the overall quality of hunting.

This
its hard to grasp sometimes but I think this exact same thing also

 

[derrick454@]

Ultimately, it boils down to the people participating. It really boils down to 2 things:

1. The vast majority of hunters have no grasp of the science behind conservation, habitat and wildlife management. We, as a group, are freaking morons. Because of the lack of knowledge, we incessantly argue, where, if we even had a rudimentary grasp of the science, there are a lot of things we would immediately agree with and push forward on. The success of the NA Model of Wildlife Conservation is rooted in education and knowledge. We, as hunters, have abandoned that.

2. Today's breed of hunter are not only stupid (from a science-based conservation perspective) but are also, by and large, very selfish. See the constant NR vs Resident arguments, long-range, compound vs primitive archery, etc. These arguments are all about selfishness, about "I pay the money I deserve this! If I don't get what I want I am going to spite the person who has what I want....". In none of those conversations is there anything about the resource.


The generation that brought the vast majority huntable species back from the brink was both knowledgeable and selfless. Our current generation is neither.

Yep


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lhbackcountry]

Okey dokey ...

Please replace with This Tikka.

 

[Stache Attack]

Man + dog predator hunting is very historical. And that's where it should stay.

I've only seen hound hunting of cats in person once. I've watched impressive videos of hounds & handlers at work. The same videos that make these cat initiatives/legislation so easy with the general public.

If I lived in Colorado, I would be arguing FOR a hound ban on cat hunting. In order to save opportunistic cat hunting (spot & stalk). To avoid/limit contracting out lion killing, CPW would eventually decrease the $56/$388 mountain lion tag fees so that every hunter can carry a cheap/free lion tag while on a deer/elk hunt. I watched a buddy kill a spot & stalk cat when we were deer hunting - it happens.

As is, Coloradoans might lose cat hunting altogether because they won't compromise by offering up a hound ban.

I support fair chase hunting of both lions and wolves. I've bought tags for both.

Well that statement clearly hasn’t worked in Washington. CO has now potentially lost the option to hunt wolves and cats forever. Maybe we should limit archery hunting as then there will be more food for cats and wolves in CO…

United we can win the battle, divided we will lose all the little battles as Colorado just did until hunting and the tradition with it will be all together lost.

Science based conservation should be the only law not commissions and emotion.

 

[cuerro viejo]

The answer is NO.

You cant talk smack about how NR are the devil, and push to highly limit their hunting options.

then

beg them for supporting votes, and legislative/litigation money.

NM is a prefect example, lets get rid of all NR sheep tags, yet 95% of sheep conservation dollars come from NR funding sources. At least NM was smart enough to see it, and change course.

CO is headed down the same path, NR will eventually take all their money else where. Leaving residents with limit financial support to fight the blue wave of legislation thats happening at an alarming rate.

 

[Amos Keeto]

Can we "unite"....?

We can't even get archery hunters to come together on longbow, recurve, compound and crossbows!!!!
(how about an atl-atl? )

How about the long range shooters, the AR hunters, the stand hunters, the spot and stalk hunters, etc, etc.....
The ones that get me are the trophy/meat hunters. LOL!
The flint lock, cap lock, inline, etc, etc....

Yes, we all need to "get along" and "pull together".
Human nature tells us that while we all may be headed the right direction, the journey to get there is like a herd of cats!

 

[squid-freshprints]

Can we "unite"....?

We can't even get archery hunters to come together on longbow, recurve, compound and crossbows!!!!
(how about an atl-atl? )

How about the long range shooters, the AR hunters, the stand hunters, the spot and stalk hunters, etc, etc.....
The ones that get me are the trophy/meat hunters. LOL!
The flint lock, cap lock, inline, etc, etc....

Yes, we all need to "get along" and "pull together".
Human nature tells us that while we all may be headed the right direction, the journey to get there is like a herd of cats!

If its not double fluted Clovis, then it is barely trad at all. (Atl-Atl is for skinny dudes.)

 

[mtwarden]

Atlatl was the 6.5 Creed of the Paleolithic for sure

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

We absolutely need to unite. I've never been big into social media but decided to try to reach non-hunters and hunters on Instagram. It may not make a big difference but I am trying to show the adventure, the scenery, the animals and the reasons why hunting is so important. It's not about kill shots or look what I did or look at this buck that I got it's more we have got to explain why hunting is important and have conversations with non-hunters. If you want follow along at rasmussen_adventures on Instagram, please do. I am just getting started and I am not great at it yet.