Can we unite as Hunters?

[mtwarden]

After reading through this thread, all I can say is wow

 

[Northpark]

Nope. Not gonna happen. We can’t unite because of about a million reasons. There’s guys on this sight totally ok with banning bait , or hounds, or it’s cool to DIY but it’s not cool to pay for private access.

Me personally I literally don’t care how or why you hunt as long as 1.) it’s legal, and 2.) you don’t tell me how or what to hunt.

If we all agreed to not crapping on each other regardless of residency or hunting style maybe we could unite.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Man + dog predator hunting is very historical. And that's where it should stay.

I've only seen hound hunting of cats in person once. I've watched impressive videos of hounds & handlers at work. The same videos that make these cat initiatives/legislation so easy with the general public.

If I lived in Colorado, I would be arguing FOR a hound ban on cat hunting. In order to save opportunistic cat hunting (spot & stalk). To avoid/limit contracting out lion killing, CPW would eventually decrease the $56/$388 mountain lion tag fees so that every hunter can carry a cheap/free lion tag while on a deer/elk hunt. I watched a buddy kill a spot & stalk cat when we were deer hunting - it happens.

As is, Coloradoans might lose cat hunting altogether because they won't compromise by offering up a hound ban.

I support fair chase hunting of both lions and wolves. I've bought tags for both.

Gotcha, well the law isn’t to outlaw hounds, it is to outlaw all cat hunting, meaning lions, bobcats, and lynx (which is non sense because lynx are already non game species) so I am very much against it. I don’t own hounds I do buy a lion tag every year and attempt to stalk/call them. There are a lot of lions on the landscape, definitely more than the cpw estimates… I have a co worker that runs hounds. It is an art form and he probably loves lions more than any cat lady around. They are very selective in what they kill they are also a tremendous tool. I would never want to outlaw a form of hunting just so it is easier for me to have opportunities in my “limited” non hound capacity. That is akin to saying well I’m an archery hunter so we should outlaw gun hunting because I don’t do it and it will make archery hunting much easier for me if that is the only option…

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Man + dog predator hunting is very historical. And that's where it should stay.

I've only seen hound hunting of cats in person once. I've watched impressive videos of hounds & handlers at work. The same videos that make these cat initiatives/legislation so easy with the general public.

If I lived in Colorado, I would be arguing FOR a hound ban on cat hunting. In order to save opportunistic cat hunting (spot & stalk). To avoid/limit contracting out lion killing, CPW would eventually decrease the $56/$388 mountain lion tag fees so that every hunter can carry a cheap/free lion tag while on a deer/elk hunt. I watched a buddy kill a spot & stalk cat when we were deer hunting - it happens.

As is, Coloradoans might lose cat hunting altogether because they won't compromise by offering up a hound ban.

I support fair chase hunting of both lions and wolves. I've bought tags for both.

Yeah, wow. You need to rethink this attitude. You need only to look at WA and how that has worked out for us. 25+ years of hound bans for bear and cougar plus wolf introduction and look what happened to our herds. All of them. And now you will have wolves. Good luck with all of this.

 

[ladogg411]

Gotcha, well the law isn’t to outlaw hounds, it is to outlaw all cat hunting...

Exactly!

1992: Colorado voters pass ballot initiative banning bear hunting with hounds in 1992 (+ spring, + bait). Spot & stalk bear hunting (fall) is retained (to this day).

2024: Colorado ballot initiative proposes to ban lion hunting altogether. Voters are NOT given the option to ONLY ban the unsavory hound hunting they see on viral videos.

See the danger in not giving the voter a more palatable option?

Parse out the methods and you might be able to save what is important to you. Or, take the fall with the houndsmen if that is Colorado's choice.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Exactly!

1992: Colorado voters pass ballot initiative banning bear hunting with hounds in 1992 (+ spring, + bait). Spot & stalk bear hunting (fall) is retained (to this day).

2024: Colorado ballot initiative proposes to ban lion hunting altogether. Voters are NOT given the option to ONLY ban the unsavory hound hunting they see on viral videos.

See the danger in not giving the voter a more palatable option?

Parse out the methods and you might be able to save what is important to you. Or, take the fall with the houndsmen if that is Colorado's choice.

Not sure what you are getting at? You just said there is no option. It is not the fact they are hunted with hounds it is the fact they are hunted which is under attack. The anti hunting coalitions that are seeking this option are not going to be appeased, ever. They hate the fact that any animal is dying at the hands of man, I won’t get into how insane that belief is, but you are either for or against the ban in Co. if people think they will stop and they won’t go after coyotes next, or mourning doves next, or you name it next you are just plain ignorant

 

[ladogg411]

Not sure what you are getting at?

I suspect "Cats aren't Trophies" is going to get all their signatures and will be on the November ballot (as written). I suspect it will pass > 50% with Colorado voters on the back of viral videos showing hounds ganging up on a single Lion.

Ideally, you fight this initiative and retain Lion hunting, all methods.

But if it passes, I suspect many will look back on this and realize that a competing ballot initiative banning only hound hunting of cats could have neutralized the all out ban.

Compromise.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I suspect "Cats aren't Trophies" is going to get all their signatures and will be on the November ballot (as written). I suspect it will pass > 50% with Colorado voters on the back of viral videos showing hounds ganging up on a single Lion.

Ideally, you fight this initiative and retain Lion hunting, all methods.

But if it passes, I suspect many will look back on this and realize that a competing ballot initiative banning only hound hunting of cats could have neutralized the all out ban.

Compromise.

I get the cutting off the limb to stop gangrene, but this isn’t it. The language used in the bill is insane and dangerous as it is completely subjective and inflammatory. I would be it won’t reach the ballot with the same verbiage. But it’s Co so I’m never surprised anymore

 

[ddd-shooter]

1992: Colorado voters pass ballot initiative banning bear hunting with hounds in 1992 (+ spring, + bait). Spot & stalk bear hunting (fall) is retained (to this day).

2024: Colorado ballot initiative proposes to ban lion hunting altogether. Voters are NOT given the option to ONLY ban the unsavory hound hunting they see on viral videos.

See the danger in not giving the voter a more palatable option?

Parse out the methods and you might be able to save what is important to you. Or, take the fall with the houndsmen if that is Colorado's choice.

Are you unaware of Floridas bear season debacle?
New Jerseys?
Washington’s?
The same people who completely banned hunting California Lions moved to Colorado. You think they’ll stop at hounds?

You’ve not been paying attention. Period.

 

[Amos Keeto]

May I?
As a kid, I can remember a lot of folks had coon hounds. Kid I graduated with trained and hunted with coon hounds to help his family. His dad was disabled.
Our neighbor had coon hounds.
At that time, we moved out into the country. I was 7 years old.
We had 7 acres, but I roamed probably a thousand acres. Knew everybody in the neighborhood and where their property was. People spoke to us as we wanderedvthe countryside, but nobody seemed to be concerned!
As I grew older, more people moved out away from town.
The kids "still" wandered the neighborhood, but they were disrespectful of gates, fences, livestock, crops and the people they came across.
One kid decided he could walk a barbed wire fence, slipped and nearly castrated himself.
The family sued the farmer. Farmer eventually won, but not before having to sell off part if his hard-earned farm to satisfy his lawyer and a snot nosed kid!

Lot'sa folks ran coon hounds and fox hounds. But they respected the land, their dogs and the property rights of those who allowed them to run.

Here in sw Oklahoma, we have coyote hunters. Nobody is upset if the coyote population is reduced.
The problem is their dogs.
They drive the roads, shooting a .22 to spook a coyote. If they can get their scent dogs on the coyote, they just turn them loose! They have NO idea who owns the property, where their dogs are going or what effect the dogs may have on livestock.
Once the coyote has been sufficiently tired, they turn their sight dogs (grey hounds) loose to catch and kill the coyote.
If a pack of greyhounds runs through your herd of livestock, spooks them and one runs through a fence and gets cut up, they don't care! THEY won't be paying the vet bill.
I let one if my neighbors quail hunt on me, but he controls his dogs.
I have posted our property and let it out to the community that "coyote hunters" are NOT welcome!
Stopped one and told him I didn't want his dogs on my land.
"I don't know where my dogs are going when I turn them out!"
"Well sir, don't make your dogs pay for your ignorance!"

 

[Swamp Fox]

But if it passes, I suspect many will look back on this and realize that a competing ballot initiative banning only hound hunting of cats could have neutralized the all out ban.

Compromise.

"Compromise" only works one way for the minority.


I think you can guess which way .... [Mr. Rogers voice]


Ballot initiative game management is an idiotic concept, and is not a good look for you.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

Hunters are mostly strong headed men. Real men. There's too much ego and pride within the hunting community to unite IMO. The anti's are the exact opposite type of people. Beta, emotional, follower types that need one strong person to tell them how to feel and think then they all just fall in line and scream at everyone who disagrees with them until they get their way.

 

[AG8]

It depends on the definition of ‘unite’ and circumstances of the moment. No one is ever going to agree entirely on the details. Tag allocations, methods, seasons, etc. That’s no different in any group of people and for any subject.

 

[woods89]

Man + dog predator hunting is very historical. And that's where it should stay.

I've only seen hound hunting of cats in person once. I've watched impressive videos of hounds & handlers at work. The same videos that make these cat initiatives/legislation so easy with the general public.

If I lived in Colorado, I would be arguing FOR a hound ban on cat hunting. In order to save opportunistic cat hunting (spot & stalk). To avoid/limit contracting out lion killing, CPW would eventually decrease the $56/$388 mountain lion tag fees so that every hunter can carry a cheap/free lion tag while on a deer/elk hunt. I watched a buddy kill a spot & stalk cat when we were deer hunting - it happens.

As is, Coloradoans might lose cat hunting altogether because they won't compromise by offering up a hound ban.

I support fair chase hunting of both lions and wolves. I've bought tags for both.

Sounds like what you should have e a problem with is hound hunting videos, not hound hunting. Ever heard of Hunt Quietly?

Voters shouldn't be deciding about cat hunting, biologists should. That's the real problem.

 

[ianpadron]

After reading through this thread, all I can say is wow

No shit! Pardon my French lol

We need a houndsman on here to take this FNG on a hunt to see how fair it really is with dogs

 

[ianpadron]

I suspect "Cats aren't Trophies" is going to get all their signatures and will be on the November ballot (as written). I suspect it will pass > 50% with Colorado voters on the back of viral videos showing hounds ganging up on a single Lion.

Ideally, you fight this initiative and retain Lion hunting, all methods.

But if it passes, I suspect many will look back on this and realize that a competing ballot initiative banning only hound hunting of cats could have neutralized the all out ban.

Compromise.

BHA member by chance?

 

[Bolt]

I won't unite on these issues because I'm not a fan of hunting with hounds. Or even cat hunting at all. The "slippery slope" argument is non persuasive. We live on slippery slopes in all areas of life and law.

And I want wolves around. It is a waste of money to hasten it rather than continue letting it occur naturally, but it is their NR (largely) dollars to squander as they wish.
If a wolf kills a hound, good for him. Karma.

This is exactly what the post is about. To each their own but we are only going to see hunting come to a close with this attitude from within.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[ianpadron]

Are you opposed to deer and elk hunting as well? Oregon banned hound hunting for Mountain Lion in 1994, and deer and elk populations in some units have been decimated because of it. Instead of private houndsmen hunting cats, ODFW now has to hire contract hunters.

That's the irony of it all.

Here's how it goes, every, single, time:

1) Game agencies recommend FOR or AGAINST something, lots of data supportting their stance.

2) .org environmental litigators recommend the opposite, use emotion only, while claiming to "trust the science"

3) the know it all yuppies that pay the .org dues, live in unaffected areas, vote opposite of the agency/experts, while seeing themselves as Aldo Leopold 2.0

4) the exact thing that game agencies warned would happen, happens...then they are forced to use the banned thing to correct the measure.

You can't make that level of cognitive dissonance up.

Wonder what that fella thinks about IDFG paying millions to sharpshooters to kill wolves out of a chopper...or WDFW assisting timber companies to kill HUNDREDS of bears every spring while the Spring bear hunt is now illegal based on the appointed commissions feelings...or MT FWP killing 10x more grizz in the past decade than a legal hunting season would have

So ya, my opinion that we are screwed has some serious merit.

Last thing, anyone who feels the slippery slope argument is BS is willfully ignorant. There are multiple case studies of states (WA, OR, CA, NJ, etc) banning legal means of take, having it completely backfire, and then doubling down on the pathos-based management decisions.

Man, wow is right.

 

[northernalpine]

“Unified” is a subjective verbiage, especially when discussing or alluding to anti-hunting organizations and their effectiveness.

The only thing that pro-hunting movement needs to be “unified” is simple: a single cross-organization spokesperson at the national level, who is unaffiliated with or influenced by the hunting industry, and is not seeking personal gain during the process.

So in other words, a unicorn.

 

[MallardSX2]

I think all hunters should unite and publicly speak out against the use of crossbows during archery seasons..

Fify