Blue Loctite Alternative??

[PNWGATOR]

This is a great learning thread!

No pun intended,,,,,

 

[journeyman713]

Yes you’ve entered the twilight zone where instead of theorizing, people are using and shooting rifles in enough volume to find flaws or breakdowns in what is “known”.

Telling that you still haven’t quoted exactly what I have written that is incorrect, nor have you stated how much you shoot to “know” that what is being written is incorrect- but, you do have time to make memes.

You have taken this thread into non-sense land a long time ago.

You've ignored some very good advice from experts in this area, interested in helping you, and others sharing our common interest.

I shoot way more than you'd guess, but number rounds is completely irrelevant.
I'm 100% confident no matter the rounds, my gun still would not fall a part like yours does, because following Loctite directions, is just not that hard. And I know what to expect from decades of experience and education on fasteners in areas way more harsh than a gun. Not the least of which is my old Harley shovelhead, completely rebuild by me, been all over the country, without screws falling out.

There is no magic that applies to your guns, that does not apply to the rest of the world.
Get over yourself.

 

[ljalberta]

Incredible thread. I too have had a failure to cure for blue loctite. Some will never believe that it was a brand new bottle, properly applied. I still use loctite, but will give a pen a spin one of these days. Some will be happy to hear I'm only trying to shoot my rifles, not fly to the moon, so a paint pen might just do the trick, and it might even successfully cure at a higher rate than loctite. After all, you don't know what the storage parameters were of the loctite prior to arriving at your house. It seems simple old paint might have a higher storage tolerance.

 

[T_Widdy]

You've ignored some very good advice from experts in this area, interested in helping you, and others sharing our common interest.

why does 243 stay liquid from several different users including myself. What are we doing wrong?

 

[david2duck]

So is it only use enough to barely cover a gnats ass or several drops to 360* bead depending on usage. Straight from the link provided by @Kurts86

 

[Castle Rock]

Green loctite has been the best thing for ring screws I hav found, it is extremely thin and is a wicking product so it will draw itself in and consolidate leaving no air gap to stop it curing
Also great for bedding bases permanently

 

[Ryan Avery]

I am not an expert on thread locker like some claim to be on here, but I've seen instances where Blue Loctite failed on action screws and pic rails. It doesn't happen often, but it was enough for me to stop using it some years ago. Some failures may have been due to using too much, while others occurred even with a small amount. I haven't experienced any failures with Red Loctite or paint pen. I haven't tried using nail polish for this purpose. However, I've heard that it's common in the 6.5 CM community. These discussions about thread lockers can be quite amusing. If someone hasn't encountered any issues with the blue thread locker, that's great, but it's not fair to dismiss others' experiences as nonsense.

 

[Dobermann]

I haven't tried using nail polish for this purpose. However, I've heard that it's common in the 6.5 CM community.

Now, now ...

But seriously, thanks for bringing some reason and decorum to this Ryan.

And I'll add: "In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice, they often aren't."

 

[Wrench]

If you choose red, you will need to heat the screw to 400ish to break the loktite loose.....or you run the risk of striping the head.

If you use any thread compound on the butter soft ring screws from sako.....heat it.

A soldering iron or heating a screw driver tip will work.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Using too much loctite will cause it to not dry properly. I have seen this happen. We actually tested this at work because we had another mechanic that was drenching every bolt he put in, in loctite and it wouldn’t dry. If your curious about how little loctite is needed order a bag of small screws that have loctite/threadlocker already applied and you’ll be surprised how thin of a layer is on the thread.


Also as Someone else mentioned loctite is not designed for threads under 6mm/1/4” check the website. This goes back to my first point it’s really easy to use too much especially on tiny screws.

Here is a screenshot from the Henkel website about using too much not curing properlyView attachment 733371

Looks to me this boils down to not reading instruction's and then arguing with someone with actual field data that found something that he trust.
Looks like you’re not using the right loctite for the application.
Does it work most of the time yes,but it’s probably failing because it’s not optimal.
1/4x20 bolt is a lot different.
Using old product or Amazon to save 20.00 is also a issue even if using the right product.
Just because it’s red or blue does not mean that’s what you’re supposed to be using.
Don’t be lazy and cheap.You researched your rifle and optic extensively but no thought to this.
Myself im getting ready to install to NXS scopes and dont plan to take them off ever if unless needed.I want them solid and I want confidence in my setup so I’ll do my own research via manufactures and actually users and make my decision on facts.
Some of you guys arguing probably shoot 20 rounds a year and actually have no factor in my decision.
Great thread other than a few comments.

 

[journeyman713]

why does 243 stay liquid from several different users including myself. What are we doing wrong?

When surface is prepped properly, and everything is in order, I suspect it boils down to a case of - "More is Not Better". Don't over do it. It takes it incredibly small amount of Loctite to do the job.

For screws as small as a scope ring, 1 drop is enough for all the screws.

Try this,
Shake the bottle.
Put a drop of 243 on a small piece of plastic (plastic so it don't soak in).
Dip each screw into the drop, so the first 1/2 of the threads are in the drop (rotating the screw).
Help Loctite distribute around the threads by, blowing on the threads (blow off any excess).
Install screw.

A toothpick transferring from the drop to the screw, is another method.

 

[mddat]

Green loctite has been the best thing for ring screws I hav found, it is extremely thin and is a wicking product so it will draw itself in and consolidate leaving no air gap to stop it curing
Also great for bedding bases permanently

Curious which green loctite? There appears to be several that are green

 

[journeyman713]

Curious which green loctite? There appears to be several that are green

He's talking about "Wicking grade 290", not to be confused with "Retaining grade" for Bearings.

I've used the Wicking grade, but usually as an after thought, because it is already assembled.
To use this, you must be able to see the threads and apply there, either at the end of a threaded hole, or at the nut.

Not sure I'd go this route on a gun with small screw, that is easy to take out and properly apply 243.

 

[BBob]

Curious which green loctite? There appears to be several that are green

290

with small screw, that is easy to take out and properly apply 243

A better and the correct product for small screws (<=6mm/1/4”) is the 222.

 

[realunlucky]

I am not an expert on thread locker like some claim to be on here, but I've seen instances where Blue Loctite failed on action screws and pic rails. It doesn't happen often, but it was enough for me to stop using it some years ago. Some failures may have been due to using too much, while others occurred even with a small amount. I haven't experienced any failures with Red Loctite or paint pen. I haven't tried using nail polish for this purpose. However, I've heard that it's common in the 6.5 CM community. These discussions about thread lockers can be quite amusing. If someone hasn't encountered any issues with the blue thread locker, that's great, but it's not fair to dismiss others' experiences as nonsense.

I agree if paint works the cost and convenience factor make it a no brainer to use.

Question still remains of how can thread lockers work in every other industrial application yet fail at such a high rate in firearms applications?

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[fwafwow]

Is it possible that some of us have been using too much Loctite and doing so causes (or leads to) the screws failing, maybe even more so than not using anything? And that paint pens or nail polish coincidentally work because each of those can dry more easily and the results are as good as dry screws? I’m trying to square the expertise of the fastening industry folks with the real world experience people are sharing.

 

[journeyman713]

A better and the correct product for small screws (<=6mm/1/4”) is the 222.

You could go that route for sure.
But with firearms heat and vibration, the added strength of the Blue 243 it actually a better call IMO.

The only real danger between the two would be - is the Blue so strong for a small screw that removal would be a problem, such as breaking it. The answer is no, due to the high grade of screws we use for firearms. And if you ever had a doubt when removing it, you always apply a little heat and remove easily.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I agree if paint works the cost and convenience factor make it a no brainer to use.

Question still remains of how can thread lockers work in every other industrial application yet fail at such a high rate in firearms applications?

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

I will let the "experts" figure that out.

 

[Formidilosus]

Is it possible that some of us have been using too much Loctite and doing so causes (or leads to) the screws failing, maybe even more so than not using anything?

Sure it’s possible. However, I and others have had problems with using just a tiny bit too.
It’s not that Loctite doesn’t work- it’s that in a lot of guns and a lot of shooting, paint pens and nail polish has worked better. That is- no issues at all. Whereas Loctite used correctly, and when coated completely, and with just a tiny bit have all had issues at some point.


If I don’t have a paint pen or nail polish handy I will use Loctite. But, I will also have to come back and check it if something goes on with the rifle. With a paint pen/nail polish, it’s never been a thing and done correctly you can visually see if the screw has moved

And that paint pens or nail polish coincidentally work because each of those can dry more easily and the results are as good as dry screws?

It’s way better than dry screws. Dry screws will loosen up.

I’m trying to square the expertise of the fastening industry folks with the real world experience people are sharing.

The “experts” aren’t using Loctite in their jobs with tiny screws on scoped rifles. If the only data set you have is aviation or vehicular, then you go with the best available information. However just because something works fantastically and without issue with a 1/2” bolt doesn’t mean it will work the same on a 6-48 screw.
Think about how many caveats have been given- make sure it’s in date, make sure to use a toothpick to apply it (or cover the whole thing depending on which instruction you use); make sure it doesn’t get exposed to below 46°F or above 82°F, make sure to use a primer, or not use a primer… and then you still may get a bad batch. Of course the only way you’ll know it didn’t work correctly, is when something comes loose- after it failed.


Or, you can degrease, apply a paint pen or nail polish, torque and be done. It will dry, it will hold, and the screws won’t loosen.

 

[RockAndSage]

Is it possible that some of us have been using too much Loctite and doing so causes (or leads to) the screws failing, maybe even more so than not using anything?

That's a great point man - liquid, uncured loctite would act more like a lubricant, I would think.