BLM on two corners with Private on the other two, ok to cross corner?

[ceejay33]

It depends on the state.

I agree. It depends on the state. Corner posts are not considered access in some states.

 

[RyanT26]

I dealt with this issue in WY just this year. Buzz is absolutely correct. I watched a guy "corner cross" 3 to 4 times on our property and miss an elk standing on private land. He never crossed at the correct corner - he went through private each time. He then shortcut through private 2 miles back to his truck. The warden would not write him a ticket. It was only my word against the poachers'. He offered to call the sheriff to come and cite a criminal trespass but would still be my word against his. The guy had no gps track, only marked pins - I told the warden "of course". Apparently there was a guy that shot an elk on checkerboard land in western WY just this year, with the anticipation to create lawsuits for the fish and game if he was cited and this has all the wardens on their heels. It's really a bad deal currently.
I get that landowners usually get the bad rap for this but imagine having bedded a 300" bull on private land only to have a public land hunter shoot at him directly underneath you and claim the bull was standing on the next ridge over when he shot. And your hunting buddy is hiking 2 miles to get to you to shoot the bull only to find a poacher standing there instead.

If it all went down like you said it did, the guy should have been cited.
But what you described isn’t corner crossing.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Read the Wyoming AG's opinion regarding intent to hunt private as a condition of trespass to hunt.

The AG opinion says that by crossing from one piece of public to another, at a corner, there is absolutely NO INTENT to do anything but hunt public land. The exact reason why Wardens in Wyoming have been instructed to not write tickets for corner crossing, and why they do not.

Take it up with Pat Crank, the AG who wrote the legal opinion, I have his number and you can tell him hello for me.

The trouble with this topic is people guessing and trying to play Matlock.

As to the GPS issue, try to remember where the burden of proof lies, with the prosecution to prove you DID NOT cross at the corner. Without a physical corner, there is no way for the prosecution to prove you didn't cross the exact corner either (you just admitted the technology isn't accurate enough).

Finally, think about why corner crossing is never prosecuted in Wyoming and why Wardens won't scratch a ticket for it either...there's your answer.

Buzz-

I would love the AG’s number.

I had a Wyoming Game and Fish officer tell me he would cite me this year, as well as a deputy sheriff for corner crossing.

 

[Pro953]

The biggest issue that causes this is the fact that non-deeded acreages sell tied to deeded acreages and a price is paid for that non-deeded ground that is atleast 50% of the cost of the deeded ground usually. It's not just an annual lease. Our public land needs major reform.

Just curious, how do they sell “tied” to deeded average?

Is BLM land in checkerboard managed differently than larger BLM parcels with regards to grazing allotments and allowed use? I tried to google about this a little bit but did not come up with much. Albeit as you noted land use law and regulations are very complex and convoluted.


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[wapitibob]

If it all went down like you said it did, the guy should have been cited.
But what you described isn’t corner crossing.

yep

 

[Dos Perros]

The biggest issue that causes this is the fact that non-deeded acreages sell tied to deeded acreages and a price is paid for that non-deeded ground that is atleast 50% of the cost of the deeded ground usually. It's not just an annual lease. Our public land needs major reform.

Risk is on the buyer. And it looks like it’s factored in considering the 50% discount.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Legal as far as i know in Az. It is ridiculous that it is not legal in all states, you literally do not need to step one foot on private. I wonder why they make it illegal in states? They should make the bogus, buying every other parcel, illegal so that this does not happen.

The Government is the one that sold the checkerboards in the first place…why I ha e no idea.

Then greedy politicians took lobbyists money and passed laws making corner hopping illegal

 

[Rich M]

Buzz-

I would love the AG’s number.

I had a Wyoming Game and Fish officer tell me he would cite me this year, as well as a deputy sheriff for corner crossing.

I've had the same go around with Buzz on several occasions. He means well but the local LEO should get a bit more weight than Buzz, Buzz wants you to go have fun the LEO is gonna do what he promises to do.

Ultimately public land should only be considered public land if there is access. No access and the lease holder should pay extra for it. If they create access, then they can pay less because only then is it public land.

 

[Zeke6951]

I think the only thing that will change a pro-corner hopping hunter into an anti-corner hopping hunter is for the pro-corner hopping hunter to own the private corner. I am sure many pro-hoppers will say that if they did own the private they would let everybody cross. If I owned a private corner I would put a big fence post on the exact corner (if it could be determined) and then 100 yards of fence going down both lines. Even better if I owned both private blocks. A fence crossing at the corner, maybe a line shack or something.

I own land in KY and I have experience with trespassers, I know they have no respect for the fact that I saved for years just to own a piece of dirt where my kids and grandkids can have a place to hunt. I spend quite a bit of money annually paying taxes, putting in food plots, putting up stands and just taking care of the place. I had a lowlife stop on the public road last year and shoot a deer on my land, he then drove his sxs onto my place and got the deer and took off. He didn't know that my grand son was in a stand about 150 beyond the deer (in the direction of the shot). Grandson heard one of the poachers say there is a deer, stop his sxs and shoot, start it the sxs up and drive down in the wood to get the deer and then sped off down a public road. Never did catch the "hunter". When I do catch trespassers and there have been a few, I tell them there is only 1 thing I can think of that would be worse than if 1 of my grandkids shot someone that is where they are not supposed to be, and that would be if someone that is not where they are supposed to be shot one of my grandkids.

Sorry for the long rant,

but one other point. Some complain that if they can't cross the landowners private then the landowner should not be allow on the public. The landowner is a citizen same as the hunter that want to cross, the difference is the landowner has a legal access.

 

[ODB]

I think the only thing that will change a pro-corner hopping hunter into an anti-corner hopping hunter is for the pro-corner hopping hunter to own the private corner. I am sure many pro-hoppers will say that if they did own the private they would let everybody cross. If I owned a private corner I would put a big fence post on the exact corner (if it could be determined) and then 100 yards of fence going down both lines. Even better if I owned both private blocks. A fence crossing at the corner, maybe a line shack or something.

I own land in KY and I have experience with trespassers, I know they have no respect for the fact that I saved for years just to own a piece of dirt where my kids and grandkids can have a place to hunt. I spend quite a bit of money annually paying taxes, putting in food plots, putting up stands and just taking care of the place. I had a lowlife stop on the public road last year and shoot a deer on my land, he then drove his sxs onto my place and got the deer and took off. He didn't know that my grand son was in a stand about 150 beyond the deer (in the direction of the shot). Grandson heard one of the poachers say there is a deer, stop his sxs and shoot, start it the sxs up and drive down in the wood to get the deer and then sped off down a public road. Never did catch the "hunter". When I do catch trespassers and there have been a few, I tell them there is only 1 thing I can think of that would be worse than if 1 of my grandkids shot someone that is where they are not supposed to be, and that would be if someone that is not where they are supposed to be shot one of my grandkids.

Sorry for the long rant,

but one other point. Some complain that if they can't cross the landowners private then the landowner should not be allow on the public. The landowner is a citizen same as the hunter that want to cross, the difference is the landowner has a legal access.

I don’t think it’s a matter of convincing private land owners to “let” people trespass to get on public land. The
land owner is irrelevant in my book.

the issue is that there is land deemed public that is de facto private. I’m not interested in begging owners to let me cross, The pressure needs to be on the government to figure out a way to allow people on land they already own and that would, other than access, be available to use just like land with easy access.

 

[ttltown]

I think the only thing that will change a pro-corner hopping hunter into an anti-corner hopping hunter is for the pro-corner hopping hunter to own the private corner. I am sure many pro-hoppers will say that if they did own the private they would let everybody cross. If I owned a private corner I would put a big fence post on the exact corner (if it could be determined) and then 100 yards of fence going down both lines. Even better if I owned both private blocks. A fence crossing at the corner, maybe a line shack or something.

I own land in KY and I have experience with trespassers, I know they have no respect for the fact that I saved for years just to own a piece of dirt where my kids and grandkids can have a place to hunt. I spend quite a bit of money annually paying taxes, putting in food plots, putting up stands and just taking care of the place. I had a lowlife stop on the public road last year and shoot a deer on my land, he then drove his sxs onto my place and got the deer and took off. He didn't know that my grand son was in a stand about 150 beyond the deer (in the direction of the shot). Grandson heard one of the poachers say there is a deer, stop his sxs and shoot, start it the sxs up and drive down in the wood to get the deer and then sped off down a public road. Never did catch the "hunter". When I do catch trespassers and there have been a few, I tell them there is only 1 thing I can think of that would be worse than if 1 of my grandkids shot someone that is where they are not supposed to be, and that would be if someone that is not where they are supposed to be shot one of my grandkids.

Sorry for the long rant,

but one other point. Some complain that if they can't cross the landowners private then the landowner should not be allow on the public. The landowner is a citizen same as the hunter that want to cross, the difference is the landowner has a legal access.

I think everything you are saying is correct…no one likes trespassers regardless if it’s in Wyoming Kentucky or Minnesota. A persons private land is sacred. That being said the public land that is being used and crossed and traversed is as much anyone else’s land as your land. Hypothetically if the corner is clearly marked one could cross from public to public with no trespass. No one is advocating for trespassing in this thread.


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[Billy Goat]

Was BLM ever meant to be public in the sense of NF?


I thought it was held for resources. The public is allowed to access it, but I thought the intent of holding it was different than other public lands.


Don't know, haven't researched it.

 

[Tod osier]

Was BLM ever meant to be public in the sense of NF?


I thought it was held for resources. The public is allowed to access it, but I thought the intent of holding it was different than other public lands.


Don't know, haven't researched it.

Both NF and BLM are charged with resource extraction as goals, but both also state recreation as a goal.

 

[Bighorner]

Was BLM ever meant to be public in the sense of NF?


I thought it was held for resources. The public is allowed to access it, but I thought the intent of holding it was different than other public lands.


Don't know, haven't researched it.

From the BLM:

OUR MISSION
The Bureau of Land Management's mission is to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz-

I would love the AG’s number.

I had a Wyoming Game and Fish officer tell me he would cite me this year, as well as a deputy sheriff for corner crossing.

Sending a PM...I would also call the WYGF and talk with Rick King about the GF officer that told you he/she would cite you for corner crossing. That warden needs remedial instruction and Rick is the boss.

I would also have them name the statute that they would cite you for corner crossing....as no statute exists for a citation for corner crossing from one piece of public to another piece of public under title 23.

 

[BuzzH]

https://www.wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2019/01-2019060313-04Trespass-CornerCrossing.pdf

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Sending a PM...I would also call the WYGF and talk with Rick King about the GF officer that told you he/she would cite you for corner crossing. That warden needs remedial instruction and Rick is the boss.

I would also have them name the statute that they would cite you for corner crossing....as no statute exists for a citation for corner crossing from one piece of public to another piece of public under title 23.

Thanks Buzz I will be definitely diving into this.

 

[BuzzH]

Thanks Buzz I will be definitely diving into this.

Not much to "dive into" as its already been done...

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Not much to "dive into" as its already been done...

I’ll be sure to tell them Internet forum experts have told me to corner crossing is legal and the game warden and deputy sheriff were wrong…

There is plenty for me to “Dive into” as IF it’s legal, a WY Game and Fish Officer cannot threaten me with a Citation.

 

[Northernpiker]

Beam me over Scotty!!!!