Bitcoin

[MountainTracker]

Someone is running and updating the bitcoin software.

So, you have to trust those people to do their jobs perfectly and you also have to trust the folks who make hardware wallets, as well as the miners.

I'm going to need some credible insurance before investing in crypto rather than gambling on it.

I believe all the btc held by etfs are insurance backed.


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[Stave]

If so, those are the kinds of developments BTC needs

Edit: GBTC's custodian is Coinbase. I couldn't find any evidence it is insured against theft.

I did find this about Coinbase's accounts for individuals: In case of a covered security event, we will endeavor to make you whole. However, total losses may exceed insurance recoveries so your funds may still be lost.

 

[Stave]

I think if an employee at Coinbase custody decided to rob the ETFs all the ETF owners would be SOL until that coin could be recovered.

Anyone know something I don't? Are those ETFs really uninsured from theft or loss?

This is from the fine print under BlackRock's IBIT: "The Sponsor is not responsible for losses incurred due to loss, theft, destruction, or compromise of the trust's bitcoin"

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

For that matter, are not the 'gatekeepers' a third party? They are the ones who update bitcoin software.

It seems to me that no software will ever be trust-less. You will always have to trust someone.

I will 'trust' the bitcoin system when:
1) There is a method to recover lost coins
2) An insurance company will insure coins that are not recoverable with something other than crypto (equal value in fiat or precious metal, e.g.)

Until then, it is merely a casino chip, which is fine

If you use hardware wallets with open source software (recommended) AND you use a Multi-Signature quorum this is not a worry. Bitcoin is also open source software. Bitcoiners do not "Trust" they verify. I run my own Bitcoin Node and therefore I verify everything myself trusting no one person or entity.

There is no "Someone" that is running and updating software. There are upwards of 100,000 unique nodes being run my individuals in every far off corner of the world. A little research will show how this works.

There will never be a "method" to recover coins. This is in fact why Bitcoin is so secure.

Insurance and Bitcoin are the complete opposite of each other. If this is the mindset you have then Bitcoin and its benefits are not suited to your outlook on money. Bitcoin eliminates counter party risk but only for the individuals that are self sovereign and hold their own private keys.

Really trying not to be rude here but these are the same un informed questions Bitcoiners have been answering for over a decade now. There is phenomenal information out there now about Bitcoin. It's a complex topic that requires studying and understanding of many disciplines. Put 100+ hours of serious unbiased research into it before you jump to conclusions and make comparisons to the current system. Ultimatley you will buy Bitcoin at the price you deserve... Todays prices are quite good!

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

I think if an employee at Coinbase custody decided to rob the ETFs all the ETF owners would be SOL until that coin could be recovered.

Anyone know something I don't? Are those ETFs really uninsured from theft or loss?

This is from the fine print under BlackRock's IBIT: "The Sponsor is not responsible for losses incurred due to loss, theft, destruction, or compromise of the trust's bitcoin"

Don't buy the ETF's

Any derivative of Bitcoin is a Bitcoin IOU!

If you don't hold your own keys you don't own Bitcoin! Plain and simple.

 

[Stave]

Thanks for your input, not rude at all. I'm open to learning

 

[Houseminer]

I have a bunch of crypto. A decent amount of BTC. A pile of ETH and SOL. But I’m in probably 30 projects at any time. I bought my first BTC in early 2017. In early 2020 and over Covid I got a phd in crypto. Literally thousands of hours researching how everything works and different projects. Bought as much as I could in the few months before the halving 2020.

I made a post in another forum that was crapping all over BTC a little over a year ago telling people to buy over the next 12 months. Explained why I thought so and why it makes sense. I can promise no one did. I have been dumping into SOL and ETH every week the last two years. It’s been a hell of a last month to say the least!

I wish someone had given me the heads up back in 2017 to buy a bunch. I feel bad not getting to game ways back when it was really cheap.

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

I wish someone had given me the heads up back in 2017 to buy a bunch. I feel bad not getting to game ways back when it was really cheap.

It's still cheap... This entire thread is an indication of that.

Forget about the shitcoins and focus on Bitcoin. All the shitcoins go to zero against BTC.

Understanding and investing in Bitcoin today is like investing and understanding the internet and it's potential in 1995 from an adoption standpoint.

 

[MountainTracker]

I wish someone had given me the heads up back in 2017 to buy a bunch. I feel bad not getting to game ways back when it was really cheap.

There is a wave of capital coming to btc that has never been realized before. Currently the etfs are buying 10k btc per day, that’s over 10x the daily issuance. In approximately 38 days the halving will occur so they will be taking in over 20x at current rates. There is money that hasn’t even started flowing in yet, but will. The current demand already exceeds the supply, what do you think happens when supply gets cut in half? Not too late as many have said.


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[Houseminer]

There is a wave of capital coming to btc that has never been realized before. Currently the etfs are buying 10k btc per day, that’s over 10x the daily issuance. In approximately 38 days the halving will occur so they will be taking in over 20x at current rates. There is money that hasn’t even started flowing in yet, but will. The current demand already exceeds the supply, what do you think happens when supply gets cut in half? Not too late as many have said.


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Say no more, I have a coinbase wallet already and i will be buying some btc, Thanks for the tip.

 

[2531usmc]

Matt,

I've attached the fundamentals you've been searching for. M2 money supply tells the story of the fiat money Ponzi in pure black and white.

You may not like Bitcoin for whatever reason but these charts are pure signal.

If your investment vehicle of choice is not outpacing M2 then you are being debased. In the charts below you will see I have changed the denominator to M2 and picked some common numerators (SPY) S&P 500/ (QQQ) NASDAQ/ (GLD) GOLD/ (XOM) EXXON MOBILE and BITCOIN

The only way you can disagree with this data moving forward is if you think the US GOVT will stop printing money and expanding the money supply. Im betting it only accelerates from here personally as we are now adding 1 Trillion a year in debt just to pay interest expense which is also now the largest line item in the US budget.

Also this is just the US... Every G7 nation has the same issue.

Im also seeing in this thread a lot of you saying you will sell your BTC for fiat at 100K or whatever price you have in your head. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of why you should be invested in Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the EXIT!

To a degree, I agree with what you are saying wrt debasing the currency.

But where I’m caught is that no matter how I look at it, BTC is a software algorithm. Nothing more and nothing less.

So while I agree with much of your discussion, I personally, will pass on BTC. Best of luck to those that stick with it

 

[2531usmc]

I don’t understand it at all

Neither do I. Good reason to stay away. As someone said earlier “tulips”

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Neither do I. Good reason to stay away. As someone said earlier “tulips”

Those who compare Bitcoin to tulips simply don't understand the use case for Bitcoin (and probably should avoid putting any significant money into it). If you want to understand, start by reading the The Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean Ammous.

 

[2531usmc]

It's still cheap... This entire thread is an indication of that.

Forget about the shitcoins and focus on Bitcoin. All the shitcoins go to zero against BTC.

Understanding and investing in Bitcoin today is like investing and understanding the internet and it's potential in 1995 from an adoption standpoint.

I dunno know, but from reading this thread, understanding and investing
In bitcoin today is like understanding dreams and hoping dreams come true. There is nothing to see, touch, or quantify.

This will end poorly for the small investors that get in after the big money pumps and dumps

 

[fmyth]

I think if an employee at Coinbase custody decided to rob the ETFs all the ETF owners would be SOL until that coin could be recovered.

Anyone know something I don't? Are those ETFs really uninsured from theft or loss?

This is from the fine print under BlackRock's IBIT: "The Sponsor is not responsible for losses incurred due to loss, theft, destruction, or compromise of the trust's bitcoin"

Do you think a 10 trillion dollar company is going to leave their investors holding the bag? No way in hell that would happen. If Blackrock lost all of their Bitcoin in the custody of Coinbase we'd never hear about it. They'd recover it or they'd take the L and make the investors whole.

 

[Stave]

Do you think a 10 trillion dollar company is going to leave their investors holding the bag?

Yes. At some point, some Bitcoin investors are going to be 'left holding the bag' when their uninsured custodian is compromised and BTC's price is skyrocketing.

 

[ozyclint]

 

[Houseminer]

Neither do I. Good reason to stay away. As someone said earlier “tulips”

It is pretty quite simple if you take a moment to study it.

 

[Houseminer]

The new hugh hefner?

 

[fmyth]

ETF's that use Coinbase as the custodian of their Bitcoin are insured against theft:

Custodial funds are legally segregated and insured

CCTC is separate from other parts of Coinbase, including our industry-leading crypto spot exchange. Client funds are segregated at the account, sub-account, and on-chain wallet address level, such that clients can independently monitor wallet activities on-chain.

Legally, client funds are bankruptcy remote. This isolates custodial assets and protects them from the financial position of any Coinbase entity or any other client in the event of insolvency.

In addition, Coinbase maintains a substantial commercial crime insurance policy that covers theft of fiat currency or digital assets from Prime Trading or Vault. Our ability to actively manage the hot and cold wallets of our trading balance based on our insurance coverage provide clients with financial protection against a range of potential security risks. We believe our policy is the largest commercial crime policy covering hot wallets of any digital asset exchange or custodian. Over the past eight years, we have significantly increased the size of our commercial crime coverage while securing year-on-year premium decreases over the past two years, which is indicative of our insurance partners’ views of our strong processes and risk profile.

https://www.coinbase.com/blog/how-we-keep-digital-assets-safe?fbclid=IwAR1Oafm4GdRAwf1oaQswrE8lBbnGWy_LMLrXDzgHZefSoD7fv3CoVvfQR94