BHA seems “all-in” with Biden

[samhelmer]

A line in the sand over beer is the most insane thing I've seen on these forums.
It makes me wonder, if you go over to a guy's house and he asks you if you would like a beer, are you triggered by the type of beer he brings you? If I had friends that looked down their noses over the brand beer I handed them, I would certainly lose some respect for them.

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Welcome to Bozeman MT. Craft beer only or you can’t be a true southwest out of state Montana resident. Where only a tiny percentage of people were actually born in MT.

 

[seldomseensmith]

We

Welcome to Bozeman MT. Craft beer only or you can’t be a true southwest out of state Montana resident. Where only a tiny percentage of people were actually born in MT.

Funny you should welcome me. I'm on my way to Big Sky Friday for Xmas. I remember when I lived up there in the mid 90s you could get craft beer. But only one. Moose Drool.

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[Hoodie]

Also, it looks like the "American Lands Council" is backed heavily by the Koch Brothers.

You know, those famous advocates of the common man's access to public lands.

The Larger, but Quieter Than Bundy, Push to Take Over Federal Land (Published 2016)

A growing Republican-led movement is pushing the federal government to hand the states millions of acres of Western public lands — as well as their rich stores of coal, timber and grazing grass.

www.nytimes.com

Turns out they funded those poachers who took over an Oregon wildlife refuge in 2016.

 

[Comerade]

There is so much misinformation out there.
I don't know any serious hunters that are Greenies, BHA is about land based issues and access to them for hunter's and fisherman. If you choose to ignore the obvious and rail against them...hunters will be the loser
Every club has disagreeable people in it, this shouldn't stop it in its tracks. Tracks that won't follow a motor vehicle and step right over the offenders.
Hunters need groups like BHA, imo

 

[Dust Rider]

Funny you should welcome me. I'm on my way to Big Sky Friday for Xmas. I remember when I lived up there in the mid 90s you could get craft beer. But only one. Moose Drool.

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Better bring your rock skis. Its gnarly right now. Gnarly as in 15" base and you just can't not hit rocks. Already burned through one PTex stick.

 

[sneaky]

Better bring your rock skis. Its gnarly right now. Gnarly as in 15" base and you just can't not hit rocks. Already burned through one PTex stick.

You guys should be getting more snow off this storm that's rolling through right now. Every little bit helps

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[seldomseensmith]

Better bring your rock skis. Its gnarly right now. Gnarly as in 15" base and you just can't not hit rocks. Already burned through one PTex stick.

I'm aware. Oh well, I hear you have good beer at least

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[Kimber7man]

Ha!

OK - it can be complicated as there are many parts to it, but here's the basic idea... we make meaning of the world via symbols (in this case physical things) and the values we ascribe to them. We also do this within smaller groups - called a 'public.' For example, the hunting public.

Physical things can act as symbols within the public, and we can both infer from others and project to others their values ascribed to them.

So, for the PBR example above, for whatever reason, PBR as a symbol has been assigned a certain value within the hispter culture. People who want to be in the hipster culture (pr public) choose the PBR symbol and with it, incorporate into their identity, the pre-assigned value ascribed to it. Basically, we walk around the world seeing certain values in symbols and incorporate them into our lives in order to make meaning within the public we want to be a part of.

At a BHA rally (or Meateater live show) guess what you will see??? "Public Land Owner" T-shirts, YETI hats, First Lite shirts, Patagonia Jackets, mustaches, flat-brim hats, people walking around asking Steve to sign their copy of Sand County Almanac. You get the point. On the surface, each of those things also has a practical use besides it's symbolic value, but in the public of a BHA rally or Meateater show - there is the added value of signaling that you, too, are a part of the tribe - your wearing that gear is an indication that you have been (or WANT to be) socialized into the group.

At some point, things can become almost fetishistic... killing a big deer on public land, for example, has a higher 'value' to some than on private land. Therefore when someone wants to signal to others in the tribe that they have something of great (symbolic) value, they not only show you a pic of the deer, but they remind you it was a 'public land" deer. The same for rifle vs. bow, compound bow vs. recurve. Same in fly fishing. Remember the beginning of a River Runs Throuhgt It? John wasn't just a fly fisherman, he was a DRY FLY fisherman...

I think you can see where this goes.

It's part of social science, so it's all debatable, but I think there is some merit to it.


For example, why else, but for the symbolic value they hold to other like-minded people, would someone spend $2000 on shiny 24" rims on a beat up piece of shit Oldsmobile '88?

Booker T Washington described symbolic interactionism in his book Up From Slavery but it wasn't called that then - he was very frustrated by it.

This is a hell of a digression...anyway, we all do this to an extent, it's just that some of it is more obvious than others. And yeah, I'm picking on BHA and Meateater, but it's all in good fun,...

Nothing to add on symbolic interactionism. However, here in the armpit of the Midwest, we we’ve been drinking dollar draft Ribbon and Rolling Rocks for longer than the word “hipster” has been hip.

 

[Kimber7man]

If I needed to drink that bad I might check my self in. I would drink un treated water from flint Michigan before a claw

The untreated water is possibly safer than the treated...

 

[3forks]

A line in the sand over beer is the most insane thing I've seen on these forums.
It makes me wonder, if you go over to a guy's house and he asks you if you would like a beer, are you triggered by the type of beer he brings you? If I had friends that looked down their noses over the brand beer I handed them, I would certainly lose some respect for them.

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Hey... It appears you couldn’t tell, but the post I made about the reason I’m not involved with BHA being craft beer was an attempt at humor.

You really took that seriously?

 

[Ozarkansas]

I listened to the Kifaru podcast on BHA back when it came out, and was initially pretty alarmed. But by the end of it the only smoking gun seemed to be that they had taken money from a group the guest deemed "liberal" (I forget the name of that group now, maybe someone can fill me in), all the rest of the podcast was just saying "don't blindly jump into these things, do your research" over and over.
Thats good advice so I did my research- turns out that "liberal" group also donated to the Nature Conservancy, Theodore Roosevet Conservation Partnership, and Trout Unlimited. None of those are necessarily "right wing" conservation groups but they're all groups that do a ton of work to improve habitat and work well with sportsmen. So that smoking gun wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed at first. Other than attacks by thinly veiled lobbyist groups like GreenDecoys.ru and AmericanLandsCouncil/Kochbros, there wan't really any substance to the argument that BHA is some sort of radical left wing group.

 

[ODB]

I listened to the Kifaru podcast on BHA back when it came out, and was initially pretty alarmed. But by the end of it the only smoking gun seemed to be that they had taken money from a group the guest deemed "liberal" (I forget the name of that group now, maybe someone can fill me in), all the rest of the podcast was just saying "don't blindly jump into these things, do your research" over and over.
Thats good advice so I did my research- turns out that "liberal" group also donated to the Nature Conservancy, Theodore Roosevet Conservation Partnership, and Trout Unlimited. None of those are necessarily "right wing" conservation groups but they're all groups that do a ton of work to improve habitat and work well with sportsmen. So that smoking gun wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed at first. Other than attacks by thinly veiled lobbyist groups like GreenDecoys.ru and AmericanLandsCouncil/Kochbros, there wan't really any substance to the argument that BHA is some sort of radical left wing group.

one thing that has annoyed me about BHA is that Land (as their general rep) and rinella have at times mocked people who have what they think are legitimate concerns about the org.

that’s not the way to ameliorate one’s criticisms/fears about a topic they are concerned about. I was actually surprised to hear rinella do it as I thought he had more class than that, but I guess he was caught up with it being in the presence of land.

if I had a question about a group only to hear the group’s rep mock those who had the same concern, I’d not feel like being part of the group and would likely feel my concerns had legitimacy since they were not addressed directly.

 

[seldomseensmith]

Hey... It appears you couldn’t tell, but the post I made about the reason I’m not involved with BHA being craft beer was an attempt at humor.

You really took that seriously?

I don't take any of this serious. That's why I steer clear of the actual argument and play around with the beer drinker type comments. I'm happy to argue with you about beer drinking and other light hearted things. I'm just playing man. Except about the White Claw stuff. That's over the line.

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[Ozarkansas]

one thing that has annoyed me about BHA is that Land (as their general rep) and rinella have at times mocked people who have what they think are legitimate concerns about the org.

I definitely think that's a valid criticism of Land. However the only thing I've heard Rinella mock was the whole Green Decoy thing, which IMO is deserving of ridicule. I'm not going to say he wasn't mocking of critics in general because Rinella can be pretty abrasive so I could see him doing that, I just haven't heard or read it.

Clay Newcomb has a good podcast episode where he talks about BHA, why he supports it, and what he thinks of some of the criticisms. He's as pro-predator management as the come, and as usual he approaches things more thoughtfully and calmly than guys like Snyder or Rinella. I don't remember if it's his "Mutt of the South" or "Successful Sheep Hunt of the South" episode, both of which have BHA board members as guests.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

At several points in this thread I saw guys saying they’re more worried about public land access than the 2nd amendment, and that we will still be able to hunt with bows if they take our guns. So here’s a question for anybody that believes that. Do you think that when the democrat party succeeds in taking away private gun ownership there will still be any hunting allowed?

Personally I think that anytime any major push is made by the republicans to take away public lands, enough of their constituents will rise up and make their voices heard to make that issue a non starter however there seems to be real momentum to take more and more of our freedoms surrounding guns off of the table.

As for BHA, I’ve heard enough out of that group to know I want to keep my distance


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[Middleofnowhere]

At several points in this thread I saw guys saying they’re more worried about public land access than the 2nd amendment, and that we will still be able to hunt with bows if they take our guns. So here’s a question for anybody that believes that. Do you think that when the democrat party succeeds in taking away private gun ownership there will still be any hunting allowed?


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The democrats in my state have been trying to remove meat from the menu in schools. Heck yeah they’ll let you keep hunting after they take your guns.

 

[SliverShooter]

I was a member of BHA for almost six years, decided last month their stated core beliefs and actions do not align. Like many non-profit organizations that started out with good intentions, the BHA has turned into a money raising enterprise spending the largest portion of its funds paying their staff. Most of the remailing funds are spent on advertising to raise more money, under the pretense of helping the “cause”. Take the time to read their financials, a very small portion of their income is used to finance real projects.

 

[gabenzeke]

Yep, I quit subscribing. I get the feeling that Land Tawney is further left than he leads on. Sure, they fight for public lands, and I value that. However, they also seem to engage in a lot of mudslinging on their social media pages. I get that the right isn't always friendly to public lands, but the left is NEVER friendly to 2a. I don't need somebody like Land Tawney insulting some of my political beliefs. I'll give my money to other organizations that do a better job of focusing on hunters, access, and 2a rather than insulting literally half of America.

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[TomJoad]

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers | Activist FactsActivist Facts

One of the latest fronts in Big Green’s spider web At a Glance Environmentalist activism is the name of the game at BHA, and hunters and anglers are just the camouflage. BHA has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from environmentalist groups, and BHA executive director Land Tawney has a...

www.activistfacts.com

Land Tawney | Activist FactsActivist Facts

Land Tawney is a liberal activist and executive director of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers (BHA). True to form, he is certainly good at camouflaging himself. Tawney wants the public to believe he’s an advocate for public lands and the most trusted spokesman for sportsmen and hunters

www.activistfacts.com

Sign in

www.americanlandscouncil.org

Dark Money Globalists Posing as Montana "Hunters and Anglers" Attacking Republicans in Ads Across the State - Montana Daily Gazette

Montana voters have a reason to be wary about alleged ‘Montana sportsmen’ endorsing U.S. House candidate, Kathleen Williams. As in William’s previous campaigns, fringe leftist groups are conducting an advertising blitz on behalf of the Democrat candidate, claiming to be outdoorsmen in Montana...

montanadailygazette.com

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers | Green Decoys

Background Backcountry Hunters and Anglers (BHA) represents itself as good-ole-boy outdoorsmen who simply want to hunt and fish and be left alone. But don’t be fooled

greendecoys.com

Omg. Please people do some homework.
Activistfacts.com owned by “CORE”:

“CORE was founded in 1995 as the Guest Choice Network by Richard Berman, owner of the public affairs firm Berman and Company, with $600,000 from the Philip Morris tobacco company to fight smoking limitations in restaurants.”

No wonder there is zero information on their site about who they are or what they do. These guys take money from big business and smear anyone that threatens their market share.

Some other sites they own where you can find them peddling trash:

“More CCF-created websites include HumaneWatch.org, PhysicianScam.com, Trans-FatFacts.com, Animalscam.com, Obesitymyths.com, and CSPIScam.com. MercuryFacts.com and FishScam.com contain a mercury calculator that offers an alternative calculation of amount of a fish that can be eaten before getting an unsafe dose of mercury, calculated as ten times the reference doserecommended by the EPA. CCF has also claimed (counter to research findings) that dieting and meal tracking do not lead to weight loss.[31]”

 

[Hoodie]

Omg. Please people do some homework.
Activistfacts.com owned by “CORE”:

“CORE was founded in 1995 as the Guest Choice Network by Richard Berman, owner of the public affairs firm Berman and Company, with $600,000 from the Philip Morris tobacco company to fight smoking limitations in restaurants.”

No wonder there is zero information on their site about who they are or what they do. These guys take money from big business and smear anyone that threatens their market share.

Some other sites they own where you can find them peddling trash:

“More CCF-created websites include HumaneWatch.org, PhysicianScam.com, Trans-FatFacts.com, Animalscam.com, Obesitymyths.com, and CSPIScam.com. MercuryFacts.com and FishScam.com contain a mercury calculator that offers an alternative calculation of amount of a fish that can be eaten before getting an unsafe dose of mercury, calculated as ten times the reference doserecommended by the EPA. CCF has also claimed (counter to research findings) that dieting and meal tracking do not lead to weight loss.[31]”

Yeah, basically all those sources were garbage.