Kinda...
I definitely want one, just not bad enough to put it as a 1st or 2nd choice
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Anyone applying WY general with 4 or more points?
- Thread starter harge57
- Start date
I definitely want one, just not bad enough to put it as a 1st or 2nd choice
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Ppl do this in many other states. I don’t and haven’t saw the issue. Heck AZ will let you share pts and then the high pt holder can turn his tag back in and keep pts! U can share pts in Utah as well.
Chad E
WKR
As a nonresident I love the opportunities I have had in Wyoming. I've been to some amazing places and had great hunts. The wilderness rule is absolute garbage and the new elk drawing that requires holding fees for 5 months based on outfitter desire is more of the same. That being said the opportunities are amazing and those issues are easy to overlook. Overall I think Wyoming treats nonresidents great as I am mostly concerned with the quality of the experience I have one the hunt. It's a state with friendly people and great hunting.
That being said the complaints about pronghorn tags by residents gets on my nerves a bit. The first year we went my dad and I drew a unit that ended up having tags for sale all the way through rifle season otc. The access was terrible but we had an amazing time. We filled our tags and loved the trip. The locals though we were insane for driving any distance to come hunt such a lackluster unit let alone 15 hours. I see it on the forums and social media after the draw with wyoming residents complaining about not drawing a antelope tag in 5 years etc etc. By gohunts numbers it looks like there is 45 units that are 100% draw as a resident first choice and 30 that are 100% as a second choice. Then there is a leftover draw To me it seems like the only reason a resident doesn't have a tag is because they are chasing a top unit and unwilling to settle.
The example given of wanting a unit 16 tag but not being willing to put it in your top two choices pretty much sums that up. On our first hunt the locals weren't willing to even go buy the tag at walmart yet there we were several states away chasing pronghorn on extremely limited public land.
Residents absolutely should get preferential treatment that is not a question in my mind but I do think it gets taken for granted how many nonresidents travel great distances, pay higher tag fees, and are jacked to hunt subpar units, many of which residents dont seem to intrested in drawing.
Tags are getting harder to draw everywhere and the number of folks wanting one seems to be ever increasing. Tag allocations will continue to be a hot topic likely for as long as nonresident hunting exists.
coues craze
Lil-Rokslider
or 3rd choice?
lol yeah when I've been up there antelope hunting the residents laugh and tell me to kill them all because they don't want them. Pretty sure the state just dishes the tags out to NR's because somebody's got to kill the darn things.
Not necessarily, many of us play the odds for our drawing since we do not have PP for antelope.
- Banned
- #68
What a load of crap...check the number of Residents applying for pronghorn tags, in particular the areas with good access.
Any resident that tells you they don't want pronghorn should be punched in the throat.
Can you tell me why "somebody's got to kill the darn things?"
This mentality is everything I dislike about hunters and why I choose to not associate with a vast majority of the "hunting" public. Pronghorn are a very unique and special species and worthy of respect. The amount of revenue generated by pronghorn via license sales, matching PR funds and other revenue, floats many other funding deficits from animals like sheep, moose, goat, and even sport fishing.
Total program costs for pronghorn are just over $4,000,000 while they generate over $13,000,000 in revenue.
Compare that to say bighorn sheep, with a program cost of $2,035,000 while generating only $1,505,000 in revenue.
Its all here, in black and white, crystal clear:
Any dipchit that says we don't want or need pronghorn around is total lacking in the basic ability to research, comprehend, and understand basic 3rd grade math. Also lacks the critical thinking skills to understand economic multipliers and the importance to local economies that they likely live and work in...by just having "the darn things" around that "nobody wants".
Like I said, these type of people need to be punched in the throat, and hard.
wapitibob
WKR
When a hunt area goes under-subscribed by hundreds of licenses, as was 16 referenced above, residents aren't playing the odds, they're simply not applying. If you apply for the quotas available, zero would be going to the nr side.
If residents were allowed 2 buck and 4 does in the initial drawing, a maximum of 1 buck or 2 does in the same hunt area, that might spread addl apps out to those lesser hunt areas vs letting them drop to the nr side.
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805Bowhunter
WKR
- Joined
- May 8, 2017
- Messages
- 673
Absolute straight
response from Buzz. If people listened a little more and used some common sense, it would greatly help discussions like these. Most good on these discussions, some just plain dumb. Its like that all time line from the movie As Good As It Gets...when the woman asks Jack Nicholson "how he is able to write women so well." His response applies to some of the posts found here. Nicholson responded to the woman... "I think of a man, then I take away reasoning and accountability." Some hunters unfortunately fall under this type of thinking.Thanks for keeping it real Buzz. Appreciate the work you, and others like you, do.
Hey just passing along what I've heard from life-long Wyoming residents. Try having Texas plates and telling someone you're antelope hunting, hear the same thing every year and then they laugh while trying to con me into hanging a white flag on my truck and driving around.
Neighbors of my kids up there say it, guys at the fly shop in Laramie, couple ranchers I met, lots of folks. I spend some time up there and try to be social and I've heard it a lot. I don't take it as they don't want any around but I've heard "Pronghorn to us is like the hogs are to you down there." and things of that nature.As for the math, of course they generate more revenue 75% of the tags going to NR's who pay out the nose. Sell 75% of your Elk tags to NR and see what that does to Elk tag revenue.
idahohikker
WKR
- Joined
- May 10, 2017
- Messages
- 2,157
Typical Buzz—some good insight with extra unnecessary heat. Sometimes it helps to take a second before posting when feeling pissed.
- Banned
- #74
Hey just passing along what I've heard from life-long Wyoming residents. Try having Texas plates and telling someone you're antelope hunting, hear the same thing every year and then they laugh while trying to con me into hanging a white flag on my truck and driving around.
As for the math, of course they generate more revenue 75% of the tags going to NR's who pay out the nose. Sell 75% of your Elk tags to NR and see what that does to Elk tag revenue.
No, 75% of the tags don't go to NR's...that whole research thing again.
Comparing an exotic non-native hog to a native pronghorn is ridiculous.
Pronghorn are the fastest land animal in the Western Hemisphere and are fastest in sustained speeds. They evolved in North America and have no close relative or related species. In other words they're a unique animal, and if foreign hunters want one, they have to come here to get them.
They're also fun to hunt and excellent eating.
One specific herd also has one of the oldest, and longest migrations of any animal in North America...pretty impressive that an 80lb animal has migrated for over 6,000 years on a corridor over 100 miles long.
Hardly an animal deserving of being bad-mouthed and disregarded...but one that deserves some serious conservation efforts, respect, and admiration for.
I wish that the United States required advanced hunters education with a focus on conservation, ethics, and things of that nature.
I get sick of watching pronghorn, huddled up in herds in 50+ MPH winds, all winter long in deep snow, eeking out a living in the Sage Brush Steppe to be compared to a f(*&ing hog. Worse, treated like target practice by a bunch of half-wits come hunting season.
YMMV, but they are a very special animal to me and a lot of other hunters. If you cant show basic respect for our native wildlife, stay home and shoot hogs.
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Come on Buzz, you're not going to nitpick numbers are you? This chain of conversation started down this rabbit hole after you quoted my reply to the guy referencing 73% of initial draw tags going to NR for his unit. Yes we all know the numbers are lower for total tags and lower for other units, probably much lower, but the point of my reply to you referencing the revenue stands that the revenue is higher due to the fact the NR's have a bigger chunk of tag allocation and are paying more per tag, and NR's have a bigger chunk of tag allocation because R's simply aren't that excited to hunt them. How's that for a run-on non-stop sentence? I'm not going back to proof read it I hope it's not too squirrely.
- Banned
- #76
...and you missed the point that, regardless of who draws what, pronghorn are a revenue positive species for the economy of the State and also the Game and Fish.
Other animals, like sheep, moose, goat, etc. and even sport fishing don't pay for themselves. In other words, revenue generated from pronghorn pays the bills for the shortfalls of managing sheep, moose, goats, and sport fishing.
Fact.
I'm having trouble reconciling a couple of your posts... It seems like in one breath you are lamenting NR opportunity in Wyoming, but in other posts you are espousing the value of the wildlife resource in terms of revenue and benefit to the local economy, a large part of which is paid for by NR. I hunted Wyoming this year and had a great time. I picked up leftover antelope doe tags and deer tags and had a good experience. I am thankful that Wyoming gives such great opportunity to NR hunters - and it does for sure. I guess I don't understand why NR seem to be disproportionately disliked in WY... Perhaps NR aren't disliked any more than any other state, but organizations like Mountain Pursuits and hearing stories about flat tires and encounters with angry ranchers sure make it seem like we are persona non grata. Most folks here, myself included, seem to love Wyoming and are happy with the opportunity to hunt there - every year if they so choose, so I guess I don't get why you seem so frustrated with NRs.
I don't recall a large push for "more opportunity" for NRs, specifically as it relates to tag numbers - honestly, I think that WY gives us ample tags and I hope it doesn't decrease. I also understand NR angst about the recent change to the draw applications. I'm glad it was beneficial to wildlife management and the lawful allocation of tags, however I'm pretty sure that most NR are disappointed with the WGFD decision to side with WOGA and keep the application date at 31 Jan. I get that ultimately you don't care about that, since your concern is proper management and tag allocation, and I frankly don't expect anything other than WOGA looking out for themselves at the expense of everything else. It was a good decision that had poor execution, I suppose. I personally find WGFD's wilderness rule to be infuriating. I would honestly rather have the wilderness areas be a LE unit that I could never draw, rather than an area I can get on a general tag but never step foot in without a resident or guide. I don't know why that makes it more bearable - never hunting it because I can't draw the tag rather than an arbitrary rule that says I can't cross an invisible line, but that's my opinion.
I've read enough of your responses to know that this falls into your "yup, you're right, it sucks, good luck changing it" bucket. Fair enough, but we should be able to have these conversations without being labeled as whiny ungrateful NRs. Everybody looks after their own interests, whether it is you, WOGA, WGFD, or NRs... but we sure seem to take some heat for it.
On behalf of all the grateful NR hunters, thanks for protecting our privileges to hunt in WY.
I
I didn't miss that at all, just pointing out the fact that revenue is higher at NR $ rate than R $ rate, how much so is irrelevant to me but if 100% of the tags went to R's the state would lose a LOT of money. That's all the more reason for R's to love the NR's coming in to hunt species they don't really care to hunt themselves, as one guy at Iron Skillet referred to them as "hooved rats." Perhaps there should be more NR tags allocated for sheep, moose, goat, etc. in order to increase revenue for those species?
edit: I'm sidetracked with this side conversation, please don't mistake any of this as me complaining about hunting opportunities, just trying to be part of the discussion.
I didn't miss that at all, just pointing out the fact that revenue is higher at NR $ rate than R $ rate, how much so is irrelevant to me but if 100% of the tags went to R's the state would lose a LOT of money. That's all the more reason for R's to love the NR's coming in to hunt species they don't really care to hunt themselves, as one guy at Iron Skillet referred to them as "hooved rats." Perhaps there should be more NR tags allocated for sheep, moose, goat, etc. in order to increase revenue for those species?
edit: I'm sidetracked with this side conversation, please don't mistake any of this as me complaining about hunting opportunities, just trying to be part of the discussion.
wapitibob
WKR
“I guess I don't understand why NR seem to be disproportionately disliked in WY... Perhaps NR aren't disliked any more than any other state, but organizations like Mountain Pursuits and hearing stories about flat tires and encounters with angry ranchers sure make it seem like we are persona non grata.”
Ive hunter WY for 10 years and never have had anything but positives.
Ive hunter WY for 10 years and never have had anything but positives.
Muley Buck
WKR
I have never felt unwelcome in Wyoming by anyone whenever I have been there. Especially @BuzzH ! I didn't know him from Adam and he didn't know me at the same rate. The first time we spoke was in person in the field, not here or anywhere else online. Yet he was extremely pleasant, interesting, informative and last but certainly not least courteous. If there was a time for a resident to be curt, dismissive and uncourteous toward a non resident it was then. There wasn't anybody around for miles. No, it was absolutely the opposite. @BuzzH is NOT against non residents.
You say you don't remember a large push for "more opportunity" but you have a problem with the restrictive wilderness laws in Wyoming. There are many threads about Wyoming wilderness laws and plenty of non residents pushing for change. Yes, you did admit you dislike the means more than the actual end result. I don't understand that, but whatever makes it more palatable for you I guess. I would venture to say that the reason the Wyoming wilderness is so great and sought after is partly the exclusivity as well as the sound game management paired together which helps make the recipe so sweet. If the wilderness law was removed and the flood gates were opened, I can't imagine that not having a negative impact. The fact is people can and will be whiney ungrateful nonresidents, I see it and read it more than I should (not directing that on you). People buy houses by airports and then bitch and moan about the noise then file lawsuits. People also move into HOA's knowing all the rules and regulations yet still the fists go flying in the air shaking. I don't get it.
I'm not attacking you with this post @TheCougar. I haven't met you in person, but we've shared information and had some good communications in the last few years. I take you as a good, honest, moral individual with good character. I'd more than likely go hunt with you (if you'd have me) if the stars lined up to do so.These are just my observations and opinions. Thanx.
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