Anyone applying WY general with 4 or more points?

[wytx]

I have 5 and I am considering it. Especially since the point creep is climbing at the rate of me NEVER catching up to a good unit. It is sad.

2 things they need to do in Wyoming.

1- Make you choose if you want to hunt with a bow or a gun....no more of this archery stamp crap. This alone will open a world of opportunity for archers and it will also get some of the point holders out of the point pool.

2- Do away with point averaging completely. There are waaaay too many people applying for their wives to get their tag with their wives having no intention on ever setting foot in the state. Its a broken system for sure. I think a lot of these states are going to make serious changes in the next 5 years. Or at least I hope they will. I have seen many people cutting deals with other hunters to piggyback on their points to continue to hunt a good unit year after year. THere was a read a while back about a guy who had hunted region G 8 or 9 years in a row....now thats pathetic.

Nope, we do not want to be a choose your weapon state.

 

[jmez]

...and whoever sues them will lose the lawsuit and their money.

States can do anything they want to discriminate, change, or not even allow NR's to hunt in their state.

Case law abounds and there was a specific bill passed as a budget bill rider reaffirming the rights of the States to manage game within their borders, including discriminating against NR's any way the want.

Maybe. A guy out here sued them over a high fence issue. He has his high fence and still a net worth north of a billion dollars. He's got more money than them and isn't concerned with the price. tag. They got tired of losing money before he did.

 

[jmez]

I burned my points last year. I'm applying in a limited draw unit.

 

[String&stick]

Nope, we do not want to be a choose your weapon state.

If residents don't want to be that's fine, but I'm gonna guess in the next 5-10 years it will happen for non residents as they will want more opportunities to go hunt, and the commission could sell more NR tags without greatly effecting hunt quality.

I could be very wrong but I see it going something like this. . .

We are raising NR tag costs again, but we are also increasing the non resident tag quota by 2000 tags. In addition to this non residents will now have the option to hunt either archery, or any weapon seasons but not both. . .

I think the pressure of point creep will eventually lead to some action and this is better than a lot of alternative for lots of reasons. And let's be honest, the Wyoming outfitters and guide association will be a driving force behind it.

(Late edit* sorry KC I see some folks bag on BUZZ hard and read this as that. If that wasn't the intentions I apologize!)

 

[BuzzH]

If residents don't want to be that's fine, but I'm gonna guess in the next 5-10 years it will happen for non residents as they will want more opportunities to go hunt, and the commission could sell more NR tags without greatly effecting hunt quality.

I could be very wrong but I see it going something like this. . .

We are raising NR tag costs again, but we are also increasing the non resident tag quota by 2000 tags. In addition to this non residents will now have the option to hunt either archery, or any weapon seasons but not both. . .

I think the pressure of point creep will eventually lead to some action and this is better than a lot of alternative for lots of reasons. And let's be honest, the Wyoming outfitters and guide association will be a driving force behind it.

You are wrong, there is a cap on NR elk tags at 7250, that includes the type 9 archery tags.

Good luck getting residents to agree to increasing that 7250 cap by another 2000 tags, most of which would be general tags. Isn't happening. Residents here are done catering to NR's and are looking out for themselves...and rightfully so. It would be wise for NR's to not ask for more, but rather be thankful you have the opportunities you do. Residents are stretched thin on being gracious to NR hunters and compared to most states, we're more than generous.

Also, WOGA doesn't have the influence they did in the past...ask them how their 60-40 bills went the last few times they've tried to run it. The Resident Sportsmen in Wyoming are much more informed, much better organized, and realize they can be the bully in the room in regard to things like quotas, etc.

WOGA is running around trying to keep what they have...and IMO, will be lucky to keep even that.

 

[Thomas11]

You are wrong, there is a cap on NR elk tags at 7250, that includes the type 9 archery tags.

Good luck getting residents to agree to increasing that 7250 cap by another 2000 tags, most of which would be general tags. Isn't happening. Residents here are done catering to NR's and are looking out for themselves...and rightfully so. It would be wise for NR's to not ask for more, but rather be thankful you have the opportunities you do. Residents are stretched thin on being gracious to NR hunters and compared to most states, we're more than generous.

Also, WOGA doesn't have the influence they did in the past...ask them how their 60-40 bills went the last few times they've tried to run it. The Resident Sportsmen in Wyoming are much more informed, much better organized, and realize they can be the bully in the room in regard to things like quotas, etc.

WOGA is running around trying to keep what they have...and IMO, will be lucky to keep even that.

So how is it that Wyoming is so much more generous to NR than other states? I’m not saying they aren’t fair or inline but I don’t see them being so great to NR as compared to other places. If I understand correctly, they give out up to 16% of the tags to NR but cap it at 7250, which obviously they fill that quota every year by adding general license applicants after the limited draw to reach that number. But Go Hunt shows there are 70,000 elk licenses sold annually there on average so 7250 license is about 10%? Which is pretty standard across the west in general. CO is a bit more generous but that’s another topic all together. Residents in Wyoming can go buy a general license over the counter for deer and elk but we have to draw it which takes quite a few pts for elk and lots for region G deer. I don’t see that as catering to NR. And then we have this wilderness law, which no other state in the west has. And you mention that WYOGA doesn’t have a big stick anymore but they sure accomplished keeping the NR elk draw at Jan 31 deadline which no one care argue has to be the dumbest bit of regulation changes ever. It literally serves no purpose. None. It is only a hinderous which may would be ok if it served any purpose but I can’t think of one . No different then the wilderness law. They are both only there to benefit WYOGA. With that said, I understand u are very knowledgeable and communicate w Game and fish and advocate for us NR there so thank you! But from a NR perspective based on events that have happened, it seems the WYOGA does have much influence and not a good one and that we aren’t really afforded any more opportunity there then any other state. But maybe I’m missing something. In all, I’m glad to be able to have a chance to hunt there if I can ever draw a tag! Lol

 

[KHNC]

So how is it that Wyoming is so much more generous to NR than other states? I’m not saying they aren’t fair or inline but I don’t see them being so great to NR as compared to other places. If I understand correctly, they give out up to 16% of the tags to NR but cap it at 7250, which obviously they fill that quota every year by adding general license applicants after the limited draw to reach that number. But Go Hunt shows there are 70,000 elk licenses sold annually there on average so 7250 license is about 10%? Which is pretty standard across the west in general. CO is a bit more generous but that’s another topic all together. Residents in Wyoming can go buy a general license over the counter for deer and elk but we have to draw it which takes quite a few pts for elk and lots for region G deer. I don’t see that as catering to NR. And then we have this wilderness law, which no other state in the west has. And you mention that WYOGA doesn’t have a big stick anymore but they sure accomplished keeping the NR elk draw at Jan 31 deadline which no one care argue has to be the dumbest bit of regulation changes ever. It literally serves no purpose. None. It is only a hinderous which may would be ok if it served any purpose but I can’t think of one . No different then the wilderness law. They are both only there to benefit WYOGA. With that said, I understand u are very knowledgeable and communicate w Game and fish and advocate for us NR there so thank you! But from a NR perspective based on events that have happened, it seems the WYOGA does have much influence and not a good one and that we aren’t really afforded any more opportunity there then any other state. But maybe I’m missing something. In all, I’m glad to be able to have a chance to hunt there if I can ever draw a tag! Lol

Deep down inside, Buzz hates non-residents. Dont be confused.

 

[BuzzH]

So how is it that Wyoming is so much more generous to NR than other states? I’m not saying they aren’t fair or inline but I don’t see them being so great to NR as compared to other places. If I understand correctly, they give out up to 16% of the tags to NR but cap it at 7250, which obviously they fill that quota every year by adding general license applicants after the limited draw to reach that number. But Go Hunt shows there are 70,000 elk licenses sold annually there on average so 7250 license is about 10%? Which is pretty standard across the west in general. CO is a bit more generous but that’s another topic all together. Residents in Wyoming can go buy a general license over the counter for deer and elk but we have to draw it which takes quite a few pts for elk and lots for region G deer. I don’t see that as catering to NR. And then we have this wilderness law, which no other state in the west has. And you mention that WYOGA doesn’t have a big stick anymore but they sure accomplished keeping the NR elk draw at Jan 31 deadline which no one care argue has to be the dumbest bit of regulation changes ever. It literally serves no purpose. None. It is only a hinderous which may would be ok if it served any purpose but I can’t think of one . No different then the wilderness law. They are both only there to benefit WYOGA. With that said, I understand u are very knowledgeable and communicate w Game and fish and advocate for us NR there so thank you! But from a NR perspective based on events that have happened, it seems the WYOGA does have much influence and not a good one and that we aren’t really afforded any more opportunity there then any other state. But maybe I’m missing something. In all, I’m glad to be able to have a chance to hunt there if I can ever draw a tag! Lol

I agree with you about the January deadline for applying, but the later draw date absolutely needed to happen and does make total sense for all kinds of valid reasons. WOGA was not happy about the draw being pushed back, and in a last ditch effort to salvage the "loss" of the early draw, they got the commission to agree to keep the deadline January 31.

Name me another State that:

Gives NR's 25% of their sheep tags
Gives NR's 20% of their moose tags
Gives NR's 20% of their goat tags.
Gives NR's 20% of their bison tags.
Gives NR's 16% of their LQ elk tags.
Gives NR's 16% of their RP cow/calf tags
Gives NR's 20% of their LQ pronghorn tags.
Gives NR's 20% of their LQ deer tags.
Gives NR's 60% of their available pronghorn tags.
Gives NR's a crap load of region wide deer tags.

Drops all the leftover deer and pronghorn tags that aren't issued to R's in to the NR initial draw. Lots of Residents are pushing the GF to change that to another R draw for the leftover quota's BEFORE moving the tags to the second draw or dropping them to the NR's in the initial draw.

What gets tiresome, and really makes me question how hard I want to continue to support NR opportunity here, is when NR's complain and want even more. To the point that I think its well past time for some of the generosity we give NR's needing to be perhaps revisited to come in line with how other Western States treat NR's.

I apply for 8-10 states a year as a NR and I don't get treated that well in any other state I apply in, nor do I see any of the Residents in those other states I apply for clamoring to help increase my opportunities as a NR there. Not that I expect it, but it sure seems a very large disproportion of NR's bitch about not enough opportunity in Wyoming in comparison to other states that are far more restrictive on NR opportunity.

 

[BuzzH]

Deep down inside, Buzz hates non-residents. Dont be confused.

Really? Ask @Muley Buck, who I met in the field while hunting a couple years back how badly I treated him and his wife when I bumped into them hunting deer. Shared a lot of information with them and gave them plenty of space when we both were hunting the same area and specific deer.

 

[KHNC]

Really? Ask @Muley Buck, who I met in the field while hunting a couple years back how badly I treated him and his wife when I bumped into them hunting deer. Shared a lot of information with them and gave them plenty of space when we both were hunting the same area and specific deer.

Well, it certainly seems from most of your posts, that you detest the idea of a NR hunting elk or deer in Wyoming. Maybe thats not you in real life.

 

[BuzzH]

Deep down inside, Buzz hates non-residents. Dont be confused.

Yep, hate NR's so much I secured permission on a primo piece of private land that not many people get to hunt, for these two guys who I had never even met. They showed up after driving all night from the Midwest, and I had 4-5 large herds of elk all sorted out for them. They both shot elk within 2 hours of meeting this NR hating bastard.

I even went back the next day an helped them pack their 2 dead elk...because I hate those pesky NR's so much.

 

[BuzzH]

One of my high school friends and his 2 cousins have been coming out the last 2 seasons to hunt elk here.

I keep an eye out on what the elk are doing for them and they stay at the house when they come here to hunt. I go with and help glass, pack, and hunt.

Last 2 years 6/6 on elk...yep, NR hater.

 

[Thomas11]

I agree with you about the January deadline for applying, but the later draw date absolutely needed to happen and does make total sense for all kinds of valid reasons. WOGA was not happy about the draw being pushed back, and in a last ditch effort to salvage the "loss" of the early draw, they got the commission to agree to keep the deadline January 31.

Name me another State that:

Gives NR's 25% of their sheep tags
Gives NR's 20% of their moose tags
Gives NR's 20% of their goat tags.
Gives NR's 20% of their bison tags.
Gives NR's 16% of their LQ elk tags.
Gives NR's 16% of their RP cow/calf tags
Gives NR's 20% of their LQ pronghorn tags.
Gives NR's 20% of their LQ deer tags.
Gives NR's 60% of their available pronghorn tags.
Gives NR's a crap load of region wide deer tags.

Drops all the leftover deer and pronghorn tags that aren't issued to R's in to the NR initial draw. Lots of Residents are pushing the GF to change that to another R draw for the leftover quota's BEFORE moving the tags to the second draw or dropping them to the NR's in the initial draw.

What gets tiresome, and really makes me question how hard I want to continue to support NR opportunity here, is when NR's complain and want even more. To the point that I think its well past time for some of the generosity we give NR's needing to be perhaps revisited to come in line with how other Western States treat NR's.

I apply for 8-10 states a year as a NR and I don't get treated that well in any other state I apply in, nor do I see any of the Residents in those other states I apply for clamoring to help increase my opportunities as a NR there. Not that I expect it, but it sure seems a very large disproportion of NR's bitch about not enough opportunity in Wyoming in comparison to other states that are far more restrictive on NR opportunity.

I don’t really understand why the residents would want a leftover draw for themselves? The leftover limited elk tags are tags they themselves didn’t draw because not enough demand from the residents correct? So they want to have a draw to themselves that they didn’t even want the tags in the first place? These aren’t leftover tags from the NR draw. I’m not totally up to speed on the trophy species there or allocations because the cost of applying for a PP for each species is too much to justify the app. U would be better off buying raffle tickets than applying for the big three there unless u have a ton of pts. I don’t see a 4500 dollar bison tag as some great thing either no matter the 20% allocation. . As far as pronghorn, I feel this is more a function of the abundance of goats. I don’t think the residents even come close to filling there allotted alocations in the goat draw correct? So they aren’t being shorted any tags it seems. So they have to sell them to someone. No I agree the deadline to move the draw on elk to May to get good data on population etc is a good thing but they shoulda just moved the app deadline accordingly as well. I also apply in 8 diff states, i wouldn’t say, ppl bitch anymore about WY than other states. Ppl went on and on last yr about buying the small Game license in CO, they bitched about AZ when they changed the NR bonus allocations, they bitch about NM and the outfitter pool etc etc. I think u just see it first hand there because u are a resident which I totally understand. Anyway, I guess all states have things we all feel they could do better w/o making sacrifices to the residents.

 

[BuzzH]

Helped another pesky NR from WI with this bull, I even had to buy all the gas and use my truck! He didnt want to go through the hassle of dealing with a firearm at the airport, so I let him use my rifle as well. He was nice enough to let me pack half of it for him.

At least he was nice enough to take a picture of me with his bull:

 

[cnelk]

@BuzzH - will you please hate me too? I could use some NR Wyoming help

 

[BuzzH]

I don’t really understand why the residents would want a leftover draw for themselves? The leftover limited elk tags are tags they themselves didn’t draw because not enough demand from the residents correct? So they want to have a draw to themselves that they didn’t even want the tags in the first place? These aren’t leftover tags from the NR draw. I’m not totally up to speed on the trophy species there or allocations because the cost of applying for a PP for each species is too much to justify the app. U would be better off buying raffle tickets than applying for the big three there unless u have a ton of pts. I don’t see a 4500 dollar bison tag as some great thing either no matter the 20% allocation. . As far as pronghorn, I feel this is more a function of the abundance of goats. I don’t think the residents even come close to filling there allotted alocations in the goat draw correct? So they aren’t being shorted any tags it seems. So they have to sell them to someone. No I agree the deadline to move the draw on elk to May to get good data on population etc is a good thing but they shoulda just moved the app deadline accordingly as well. I also apply in 8 diff states, i wouldn’t say, ppl bitch anymore about WY than other states. Ppl went on and on last yr about buying the small Game license in CO, they bitched about AZ when they changed the NR bonus allocations, they bitch about NM and the outfitter pool etc etc. I think u just see it first hand there because u are a resident which I totally understand. Anyway, I guess all states have things we all feel they could do better w/o making sacrifices to the residents.

They want more tags and more opportunity at the tags leftover from the Resident draw...that simple.

With NR opportunity so slim in surrounding states, Residents want more opportunity for themselves where they're Residents, can't blame them.

 

[coues craze]

I hate you too buzz now can we be friends and go cow hunting I’ll buy my own gas but you can pack half if you want

 

[HairyScandinavian]

@BuzzH - will you please hate me too? I could use some NR Wyoming help

lmao I was just about to post something similar.

 

[Thomas11]

They want more tags and more opportunity at the tags leftover from the Resident draw...that simple.

With NR opportunity so slim in surrounding states, Residents want more opportunity for themselves where they're Residents, can't blame them.

I don’t understand I guess? If the residents didn’t want these tags in the Regular draw, why are they fighting to get them literally a month later in a leftover draw? They are leftover because they themselves didn’t want them? I don’t get that? That’s a great bull! I can’t believe that guy would even ask all that of you! He obviously had a great tag, and he wouldn’t even bring his own gun, made u use your vehicle, etc. some ppl have a lot of nerve and are just plain cheap. I wouldn’t been as gracious as u!

 

[BuzzH]

I helped this NR for 14 consecutive seasons, each year he took a pronghorn buck and usually a doe as well...health issues forced him to give up hunting a couple years back. Glad I was able to help him, great guy and a damn good friend.

First time I ever met Ron:

One of the last years we hunted together...neat hunt. He was done with a good buck for the area and his doe within about 2 hours of hunting.