AK Sheep, Population Observations

[WalterH]

Waaaay too many guides playing russian roulette with short, young rams the last few years. The sub-legal take % for guides is about the same as private hunters if I remember correctly, which is total BS and should come with more significant penalties in my mind. I wish we could go the Canadian model where guides push and/or require harvest of mature rams, 9-10 and older.

I can't selling a hunt/ram like this for 20-30k. Legal, I guess, but damn.

 

[FAAFO]

Waaaay too many guides are cutting it far too close with short, young rams the last few years. The sub-legal take % for guides is about the same as private hunters if I remember correctly, which is total BS and should come with more significant penalties in my mind.

I can't imagine shelling out 20-30k dollar for a guided hunt to take something like this home. Legal, I guess, but damn.

View attachment 760277

kind of a dick move to post someone’s sheep without their permission and mocking it. That ram had horrible genetics and good for the hunter to take it out of the gene pool.

I’d rather see a squeaker from a walk in hunter than the big helicopter rams from Canada. A very large % of them are not even an hunt. A friend shot his 39” ram on day one about 1/4 mile from the LZ. The majority of big rams killed in AK have a lot of av fuel behind them. And the “hunt” isn’t much to talk about.

What may not be a trophy to you is a trophy to someone else.

 

[Dexter Grayson]

kind of a dick move to post someone’s sheep without their permission and mocking it. That ram had horrible genetics and good for the hunter to take it out of the gene pool.

Don’t be dumb

 

[FAAFO]

Don’t be dumb

thanks for your contribution

 

[Dexter Grayson]

thanks for your contribution

First time is free, will have to charge next time.

 

[as.ks.ak]

kind of a dick move to post someone’s sheep without their permission and mocking it. That ram had horrible genetics and good for the hunter to take it out of the gene pool.

I’d rather see a squeaker from a walk in hunter than the big helicopter rams from Canada. A very large % of them are not even an hunt. A friend shot his 39” ram on day one about 1/4 mile from the LZ. The majority of big rams killed in AK have a lot of av fuel behind them. And the “hunt” isn’t much to talk about.

What may not be a trophy to you is a trophy to someone else.

That ram was guided…… by an outfit that’s known for shooting less than full curl 8 yr olds…. Banana 8’s some might say. There’s a nickname in there somewhere, I’m sure.

Play stupid games consistently enough, you’re bound to win some stupid prizes. And might I add, I hope they do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WalterH]

kind of a dick move to post someone’s sheep without their permission and mocking it. That ram had horrible genetics and good for the hunter to take it out of the gene pool.

I’d rather see a squeaker from a walk in hunter than the big helicopter rams from Canada. A very large % of them are not even an hunt. A friend shot his 39” ram on day one about 1/4 mile from the LZ. The majority of big rams killed in AK have a lot of av fuel behind them. And the “hunt” isn’t much to talk about.

What may not be a trophy to you is a trophy to someone else.

I had mixed feelings about the post and probably should have held off. Thanks for the feedback. It is a publicly posted image so I don't feel permission is required. It was shared with the world.

For clarification, I am not critical of the hunter and I hope they had a great hunt and are more than happy with their trophy and experience.

I am, however, being critical of guide services that promote taking young and barely legal rams and for toeing that line so closely that a significant number of them are taking sub-legal rams on an annual basis. That particular guide has a disclaimer on their web site that says the areas they hunt are known for sheep that reach 8 years old without being full curl.

 

[ColeyG]

I’d rather see a squeaker from a walk in hunter than the big helicopter rams from Canada. A very large % of them are not even an hunt. A friend shot his 39” ram on day one about 1/4 mile from the LZ. The majority of big rams killed in AK have a lot of av fuel behind them. And the “hunt” isn’t much to talk about.

What may not be a trophy to you is a trophy to someone else.

Those are two separate issues for me, killing old rams vs. methods and means.

I agree that some of those helo hunts aren't as "pure" or "earned" as a walk-in DIY, but for the most part, they are leaving younger sheep on the hill to grow and targeting old rams. I agree that most mature rams killed in AK are due to the almighty supercub and a healthy helping of AV gas. I suppose that is their version of "earning it." I don't have that luxury, so I try to make up for it with miles on the boots. So far I am falling way short...

I'd rather not see squeakers killed at all I guess. Yes this falls more in the realm of ethics than legality. Anyone who wants to shoot a full curl 6 y/o should feel free to do so and is within the current framework of the law. That having been said, when we have so many people edging so close to that line of legal vs. not, bad things are bound to happen.

I'd like the see the requirements change so that fewer 6 and 7y/o rams are dying each year. I think this is a potential population level impact that wasn't really foreseen by the advocates of the FC/8 y/o model way back when. The thinking has been that the 8 y/o and older rams are on their way to the dirt and aren't necessary to maintain the breeding needs of the population. I don't think that can be fairly said the 6 and 7 y/o rams. The "loss of the leader" conundrum also needs some careful study at some point.

 

[FAAFO]

First time is free, will have to charge next time.

You have to have something of value to be able to charge. And last I remember you owe me.

 

[FAAFO]

That ram was guided…… by an outfit that’s known for shooting less than full curl 8 yr olds…. Banana 8’s some might say. There’s a nickname in there somewhere, I’m sure.

Play stupid games consistently enough, you’re bound to win some stupid prizes. And might I add, I hope they do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who cares that ram was guided? We all know the adventure outfitter you’re talking about.

It’s a legal ram with shitty genetics that wasn’t going to be much. Probably means the world to the guy who got it. It’s a dick move to mock it.

I do agree with you, I wonder when they will get a sublegal. That 6 year old last year

 

[FAAFO]

Those are two separate issues for me, killing old rams vs. methods and means.

I agree that some of those helo hunts aren't as "pure" or "earned" as a walk-in DIY, but for the most part, they are leaving younger sheep on the hill to grow and targeting old rams. I agree that most mature rams killed in AK are due to the almighty supercub and a healthy helping of AV gas. I suppose that is their version of "earning it." I don't have that luxury, so I try to make up for it with miles on the boots. So far I am falling way short...

I'd rather not see squeakers killed at all I guess. Yes this falls more in the realm of ethics than legality. Anyone who wants to shoot a full curl 6 y/o should feel free to do so and is within the current framework of the law. That having been said, when we have so many people edging so close to that line of legal vs. not, bad things are bound to happen.

I'd like the see the requirements change so that fewer 6 and 7y/o rams are dying each year. I think this is a potential population level impact that wasn't really foreseen by the advocates of the FC/8 y/o model way back when. The thinking has been that the 8 y/o and older rams are on their way to the dirt and aren't necessary to maintain the breeding needs of the population. I don't think that can be fairly said the 6 and 7 y/o rams. The "loss of the leader" conundrum also needs some careful study at some point.

Couldn’t agree more!

 

[WalterH]

It’s a legal ram with shitty genetics that wasn’t going to be much. Probably means the world to the guy who got it. It’s a dick move to mock it.

I edited my post to more closely line up with my intended point. Not mocking the hunter, but pointing out what I think is ongoing bad customer service and borderline unethical behavior by the guide service in question.

 

[FAAFO]

. That particular guide has a disclaimer on their web site that says the areas they hunt are known for sheep that reach 8 years old without being full curl.

I’ve never seen that posted on their website. But honestly have only looked at it a time or two.

8 year old 3/4 and no mass, let them take them.

 

[WalterH]

I’ve never seen that posted on their website. But honestly have only looked at it a time or two.

8 year old 3/4 and no mass, let them take them.

Fair point. If they are killing those rams, less competition for the good ones, not that there's any left in their area...

 

[Bambistew]

That ram is bigger than the Governors tag ram. At least its legal.

 

[ColeyG]

That ram is bigger than the Governors tag ram. At least its legal.

Ouch!

 

[Dexter Grayson]

You have to have something of value to be able to charge. And last I remember you owe me.

Owe you a lesson on how to not be dumb? Guess I’ll pay up. Lesson 1: once you post something on the internet it’s public. Now that you’re done I’ll move on.

As far as AK sheep goes, I believe it’s headed towards a statewide draw. Which I’m not opposed to. The only thing we can control are predators and hunting pressure. The reports I’ve heard this year are very similar to last year. Happy to see a few nice rams come off the mountain but the average age dropping is alarming.

 

[FAAFO]

Owe you a lesson on how to not be dumb? Guess I’ll pay up. Lesson 1: once you post something on the internet it’s public. Now that you’re done I’ll move on.

As far as AK sheep goes, I believe it’s headed towards a statewide draw. Which I’m not opposed to. The only thing we can control are predators and hunting pressure. The reports I’ve heard this year are very similar to last year. Happy to see a few nice rams come off the mountain but the average age dropping is alarming.

And a draw will fix it? Will it fix the age class dropping?

Historically as sheep numbers go down so do the number of sheep hunters. I see no reason to go to a draw for sheep statewide unless it’s going to bring the population up. Last I checked we are not harvesting very many ewes…

 

[FAAFO]

Also because everyone gets fixated on sublegal harvest, according to ADFG the sublegal harvest so far for 2024 is on par as almost every other year.

 

[ColeyG]

And a draw will fix it? Will it fix the age class dropping?

Historically as sheep numbers go down so do the number of sheep hunters. I see no reason to go to a draw for sheep statewide unless it’s going to bring the population up. Last I checked we are not harvesting very many ewes…

Perhaps indirectly if there isn’t so much pressure in the general areas or guides competing with other guides and residents, we can all be encouraged to take some more time and focus on older rams.

In reality, going full draw alone probably wouldn’t change the age problem we are currently experiencing.

I’ve been taking about the hunter numbers vs. harvest a fair bit lately in my very small circle of sheep friends. I think we are in general agreement that though overall numbers of sheep hunters are trending down, the felt “competition” is about the same.

The people that are still in the game tend to be the pretty dedicated and capable ground pounders, the supercub cowboys, and the guides. With fewer legal rams on the hill, it feels just as competitive as ever, if not more so, trying to run one of them down.