AK Sheep, Population Observations

[Dexter Grayson]

And a draw will fix it? Will it fix the age class dropping?

Historically as sheep numbers go down so do the number of sheep hunters. I see no reason to go to a draw for sheep statewide unless it’s going to bring the population up. Last I checked we are not harvesting very many ewes…

Fix? No. A quick look at TMA and DCUA proves that.

 

[FAAFO]

Perhaps indirectly if there isn’t so much pressure in the general areas or guides competing with other guides and residents, we can all be encouraged to take some more time and focus on older rams.

In reality, going full draw alone probably wouldn’t change the age problem we are currently experiencing.

I’ve been taking about the hunter numbers vs. harvest a fair bit lately in my very small circle of sheep friends. I think we are in general agreement that though overall numbers of sheep hunters are trending down, the felt “competition” is about the same.

The people that are still in the game tend to be the pretty dedicated and capable ground pounders, the supercub cowboys, and the guides. With fewer legal rams on the hill, it feels just as competitive as ever, if not more so, trying to run one of them down.

Great Post!

I believe a cap on NR licenses should happen regardless what the sheep population is doing. As far as residents I’m against it 100%. I think season restructure etc could be done first before going full draw.

I’ve never looked at sheep hunting as competitive. I can see your point but I feel like social media is more of a driver than anything regarding that. I tend to stay in a small sheep bubble myself. Hell even with low sheep numbers it’s rare for anyone I’ve talked with to even see other hunters while in the field. You want to get rid of the feeling of competition sheep hunting? Get off social media. I promise it will help.

You touched earlier on full curl management. I’m not convinced targeting older rams is best for the herd. We need those 10+ rams breeding. And even a 12 year old ram ruts hard. They are not “excess” rams. For whatever reason they’ve made it to old age. Genetics, knowledge etc that should all be passed along. Have a bunch of young rams running around doing the breeding? Cant be good long term…

There are a lot of new sheep hunters every year. Look at the marketing SG and others do, it’s primarily focused on thin horns. Hell the founder killed a giant bighorn last year and they didn’t post it. Regarding sheep it’s 90% thin horns. It’s cool to sheep hunt. That’s why Dexter doesn’t sheep hunt. I agree seasoned sheep hunters can do and should do better. But there are a lot of new sheep hunters and let them shoot their legal rams. It’s always been that way, again to rag on social media it’s just more readily available to see their rams which many will question size etc.

We’ve all shot animals that are not very big or mature. The path some of us take as we mature is to focus on mature animals, using different weapons etc. For others it’s none of those and they may simply what a legal ram. To each their own. Both likely care about the resource. And neither ram they killed is more worthy of dying than the other.

Unless the one guy long range banged his ram. Then that guy can Fock off and go hang out with Dexter because he’s a tool

 

[cbeard64]

Let’s see:

Cap on NR tags even further but unlimited resident tags is A-OK (Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from every state/provincial resident who doesn’t hunt out of their state/province and thinks everyone else is a second-class citizen.)

If you are a NR, guided, or work hard enough to afford a plane/fuel to scout - congrats on your sheep but (really) you pretty much suck since you didn’t do it my way.

In a nutshell, the only real sheep hunters are AK residents, buy their tags OTC, hunt unguided, and 100% on foot.

Got it.

 

[FAAFO]

Let’s see:

Cap on NR tags even further but unlimited resident tags is A-OK (Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from every state/provincial resident who doesn’t hunt out of their state/province and thinks everyone else is a second-class citizen.)

If you are a NR, guided, or work hard enough to afford a plane/fuel to scout - congrats on your sheep but (really) you pretty much suck since you didn’t do it my way.

In a nutshell, the only real sheep hunters are AK residents, buy their tags OTC, hunt unguided, and 100% on foot.

Got it.

Well if that’s what you take from it more power to you. But you’re wrong (surprise) as I do hunt out of state and country.

And I don’t care if you go guided etc. my point was pretty clear. Guys jerk off to the big rams and shame the small rams killed? You don’t care the means as long as it’s big? Ok then that’s fine. I don’t care. As you shouldn’t care what I think. But you do

Real sheep hunters? Not sure what you’re on talking about but you’re wrong again. We don’t buy our tags

I apologize our views don’t line up. You like to see big rams and I like to hear the story of the ram. We are not of the same. And that’s ok.

 

[as.ks.ak]

Out of curiosity, does anyone else in here submit proposals to BOG, attend meetings or sit on an advisory board?

There sure is lots of lip service in here.


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[cbeard64]

Well if that’s what you take from it more power to you. But you’re wrong (surprise) as I do hunt out of state and country.

And I don’t care if you go guided etc. my point was pretty clear. Guys jerk off to the big rams and shame the small rams killed? You don’t care the means as long as it’s big? Ok then that’s fine. I don’t care. As you shouldn’t care what I think. But you do

Real sheep hunters? Not sure what you’re on talking about but you’re wrong again. We don’t buy our tags

I apologize our views don’t line up. You like to see big rams and I like to hear the story of the ram. We are not of the same. And that’s ok.

It’s fine to reply to my post, but if you have to assume a bunch of other stuff I didn’t say but act as if I did to try to put me down and lift yourself up - that’s weak. (It’s called a “Strawman” argument BTW.)

Not to mention you also self-owned with the “we don’t buy our tags” bit. I assume you buy them when you hunt out of state and country. Right? Well then .

Again, got it.

 

[FAAFO]

It’s fine to reply to my post, but if you have to assume a bunch of other stuff I didn’t say but act as if I did to try to put me down and lift yourself up - that’s weak. (It’s called a “Strawman” argument BTW.)

Not to mention you also self-owned with the “we don’t buy our tags” bit. I assume you buy them when you hunt out of state and country. Right? Well then .

Again, got it.

Pretty sure you started the assuming part. And my reference for the tag cost was our alaska sheep tags.

Here’s a video for you to watch to see some big rams. You can skip the whole video(not missing much). A lot of cool ram pics at the end. Worth the 3 mins to watch. Be sure to use a Kleenex

 

[FAAFO]

Out of curiosity, does anyone else in here submit proposals to BOG, attend meetings or sit on an advisory board?

There sure is lots of lip service in here.


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Yes

 

[mdoolin]

I really think it's topics like these that are the reason anti hunters are winning. We would rather take someone else's opportunity away to make ours marginally better! Cutting NR opportunity won't help the sheep come back any faster. I would be willing to bet 19C with no NR hunting won't recover any faster than the rest of the state. It's my opinion that closing that unit down was a big mistake. The NR demand didn't go away so all it did was put more pressure on other areas.

 

[cbeard64]

Pretty sure you started the assuming part. And my reference for the tag cost was our alaska sheep tags.

Here’s a video for you to watch to see some big rams. You can skip the whole video(not missing much). A lot of cool ram pics at the end. Worth the 3 mins to watch. Be sure to use a Kleenex

I’m familiar with his videos. Successful financially, good family man, owns/flies his own plane, knows areas all over the state like the back of his hand, finds big rams, hunts them on foot, kills them, and packs them out. I can easily see why men who don’t have those things going for them and view others’ success as “sour grapes” would be envious.

 

[FAAFO]

I really think it's topics like these that are the reason anti hunters are winning. We would rather take someone else's opportunity away to make ours marginally better! Cutting NR opportunity won't help the sheep come back any faster. I would be willing to bet 19C with no NR hunting won't recover any faster than the rest of the state. It's my opinion that closing that unit down was a big mistake. The NR demand didn't go away so all it did was put more pressure on other areas.

Thank you for your opinion. The sheep issue is a difficult one for sure. I agree with you limiting the NR sheep harvest isn’t going to bring the sheep back. But it will help with some of the other issues brought up in sheep discussions regarding alaska.

Also while some outfitters did relocate for sheep due to the 19c closure many did not and are not offering sheep hunts currently.

 

[FAAFO]

I’m familiar with his videos. Successful financially, good family man, owns/flies his own plane, knows areas all over the state like the back of his hand, finds big rams, hunts them on foot, kills them, and packs them out. I can easily see why men who don’t have those things going for them and view others’ success as “sour grapes” would be envious.

That’s cool you know him. How often do you guys chat?

I’ve never ran across anyone who has sour grapes towards him. Not sure who you’re talking about.

Did you get any on the screen?

 

[Bambistew]

I really think it's topics like these that are the reason anti hunters are winning. We would rather take someone else's opportunity away to make ours marginally better! Cutting NR opportunity won't help the sheep come back any faster. I would be willing to bet 19C with no NR hunting won't recover any faster than the rest of the state. It's my opinion that closing that unit down was a big mistake. The NR demand didn't go away so all it did was put more pressure on other areas.

The sub 50% success rate is having a pretty good effect on curbing NR hunting pressure. There was 50% fewer NR last year than there was 5 years ago. I can't imagine dropping $25-30k and having less than 50% chance to kill a sheep, vs going to Canada for a bit more and getting a better chance and better sheep. YMMV.

Its always funny to see NR complaining about NR losing out on unlimited opportunity. I hope the whole state goes to a quota for NR, its long past due. You're right it will have limited effect on sheep populations, but NR take nearly half the sheep state-wide and took nearly 80% of the sheep in 19C every year too. No other place in NA gives away animals to NRs like Alaska. You want the same opportunity, move here.

 

[as.ks.ak]

The sub 50% success rate is having a pretty good effect on curbing NR hunting pressure. There was 50% fewer NR last year than there was 5 years ago. I can't imagine dropping $25-30k and having less than 50% chance to kill a sheep, vs going to Canada for a bit more and getting a better chance and better sheep. YMMV.

Its always funny to see NR complaining about NR losing out on unlimited opportunity. I hope the whole state goes to a quota for NR, its long past due. You're right it will have limited effect on sheep populations, but NR take nearly half the sheep state-wide and took nearly 80% of the sheep in 19C every year too. No other place in NA gives away animals to NRs like Alaska. You want the same opportunity, move here.

I’d like to see all registered guides required to be Alaskan residents as well. Add that to the list. Pimp the state’s resources? Keep your spending money here, pilgrim.


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[FAAFO]

I’d like to see all registered guides required to be Alaskan residents as well. Add that to the list. Pimp the state’s resources? Keep your spending money here, pilgrim.


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I would like to see something similar, not just registered guides but assistant guides. The vast majority of registered guides live here but assistant guides have a very high % who do not.

 

[mdoolin]

I’d like to see all registered guides required to be Alaskan residents as well. Add that to the list. Pimp the state’s resources? Keep your spending money here, pilgrim.


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Would you recommend the same rules for the other industries in the state? Commercial fishing, guided fishing, Mining, Oil & Gas? I work up on the slope now and was really surprised to find out how many live out of state.

Not saying it's a bad idea I'm just curious.

 

[cbeard64]

Yeah, let’s just forget all this “America” BS. Everyone must live, work and spend all their $$ in their own state. 100%. Heck, let’s begin building the walls.

Cause, of course, no Alaskan ever went to the lower 48 to live, work, or go to school.

 

[VernAK]

Yes

Yes!

22 years on AC!
two decades on 40MCH Coalition
Attend BOG meetings when nearby.

 

[FAAFO]

If you’re going to have a silly law saying a NR has to have a guide for S/BB/G it isn’t unreasonable that it shouldn’t be a NR

Let’s preach America but send our money to Canada 5 times since 2006. Sure missed some amazing years where you could have supported America. But gotta hit that easy button and do the Canadian canned hunt . Wouldn’t touch alaska with a 10 foot pole.

So American!

 

[Alder_]

Just make the NR allocation the same as any other state.

@cbeard64 fair is fair, right? Get on that 10% train.

Take notes from any state that still offers NR general elk hunting. It sucks.