A pistol failure story…

[rileybassman]

A more defined wall and crisper break is exactly opposite of what a Glock trigger needs- unless dropping trigger weight low. A smooth rolling break with almost no defined wall is much better.





DA/SA I can understand.




Fully cocked strikers with no external safety are pants on head retarded. Pull your mind out of the gun world a bit and just think about it clearly- it’s insane.



There are lots of pistols that are safe to carry, etc. Not just 1911/2011’s. Though they are about the most foolproof.

Thanks for your thoughts - appreciate it!

So, what I'm hearing is you would not recommend PDPs or M&P (like 95% cocked) or similar types of striker guns? Do two sears like an echelon etc. change the narrative for you?

Just generally curious what your opinions are on striker guns or if you only recommend SA or DA/SA?

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks for your thoughts - appreciate it!

So, what I'm hearing is you would not recommend PDPs or M&P (like 95% cocked) or similar types of striker guns? Do two sears like an echelon etc. change the narrative for you?

Just generally curious what your opinions are on striker guns or if you only recommend SA or DA/SA?

Man I use them all. But, when I have a choice- I choose the best pistols. That very often isn’t a striker fired gun (because of what is available). The M&P with the thumb safety I would be more inclined to. I haven’t shot the Echelon enough to say.
The PDP is laughable as a carry gun. As a toy- why not just get a 2011 or CZ game gun?

But again- I don’t get the desire of most to shoot and use lessor pistols. Maybe because I have so much time and rounds on Glocks, M&P’s, Sig M17/18’s, Walter’s, CZ’s, etc. that they have lost the novelty to me. There is no real argument that a proper 1911/2011 is not bested by any gun from a user experience and performance standpoint. Now that there are $400 versions that work without much fuss- $700 Glocks seem pretty dumb.

 

[stan_wa]

There is no real argument that a proper 1911/2011 is not bested by any gun from a user experience and performance standpoint. Now that there are $400 versions that work without much fuss- $700 Glocks seem pretty dumb.

Is this a typo? im not sure what you mean by this. are you saying there is no argument that a 1911/2011 is bested by other platforms.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Is this a typo? im not sure what you mean by this. are you saying there is no argument that a 1911/2011 is bested by other platforms.

No, he used a double negative to say the opposite of that. A proper 1911/2011 beats all other platforms, in his august opinion.

 

[Formidilosus]

Is this a typo? im not sure what you mean by this. are you saying there is no argument that a 1911/2011 is bested by other platforms.

Poor engrish as Q noted.

There are no pistols that are better from a user experience and performance standpoint than properly built 1911’s/2011’s.

 

[Dobermann]

Poor engrish as Q noted.

There are no pistols that are better from a user experience and performance standpoint than properly built 1911’s/2011’s.

And to read more about why - and see some of us skeptical, hapless fools give Form's advice a go only to have him be proven correct yet again, turn to this channel: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/1911s-in-general-9mm-versions-specifically.406722/

 

[AlaskaRed]

Poor engrish as Q noted.

There are no pistols that are better from a user experience and performance standpoint than properly built 1911’s/2011’s.

HK USP 9mm. Very reliable, very shootable. It doesn't know the difference between range ammo and +P. I've found a lot of pistols get finicky with +P and hot hard cast rounds including a 10mm 1911 I have. As far as user experience goes malfunctions degrade that experience. Any pistol is suscetpable to a malfunction but, I have yet to experience one in my USP. I cannot say that about any of my other pistols including Glocks, Hi-Powers, 1911's and MKiv pistols. I have even had a S&W 329 PD frame blow apart in my hand during range practice. Hard to imagine that user experience during DLP incident with a bear.

 

[Bama67]

I pretty much left Glocks for the M&P 2.0 platform.
Much better ergonomics, shoot softer/flatter, better trigger, and I don't think I have ever had a failure to fire. Lots of torure tests online with how they stand up to abuse/mud/etc.
You can get one with a safety if that's important to you.
Paid $379 for my last one.
They cannot be beat for that money.

 

[RockAndSage]

HK USP 9mm. Very reliable, very shootable.

Very reliable, yes. Shootable, sure. But definitely not more so, especially on the issue of shootability.

Give someone a properly built 1911/2011, and they'll outshoot themselves over just about any other gun they've shot, especially one they've never shot. And that just accelerates once they have time on the gun. If that wasn't the case, USPs would dominate competition shooting. It really is the only data point you need to gauge the "shootability" of a gun vs 1911s or 2011s - if there was any shootability edge to be had, competitors would be using them en masse.

BTW, it's worth defining "shootability" - it's not just about how easy a gun shoots for you, especially relaxed and at the range. And it's definitely not just how good it feels in the hand. It's something of a combo of how fast you can draw and fire it for first-round precision under duress, how well you can manage recoil with it, how fast you get subsequent rounds downrange on it, and comprehensively just how fast, accurate, and precise you get all those rounds grouped together on target.

On reliability, USPs score a lot higher for me than most other guns, and until the recent era I would have scored them far more reliable than 1911s. But modern-era 1911/2011s built on today's precision CNC machines in the last decade or so, especially the guns with proper low-friction coatings, are absolutely excellent in terms of both reliability and durability. There's definitely quality differences by company, but properly built ones are phenomenal.

As reference, I have a Staccato C I put 5000+ rounds on in the last 6 months, without cleaning, while only re-lubing once with a lightweight grease at the 2500rd mark - it has had literally zero malfunctions that weren't ammo related. Thus far, if it threw a malfunction tomorrow, that's about twice the reliability of the most reliable guns I've ever shot before. And I have a lot of time on USPs from the 1990s, along with Sigs especially, and a few others. They're great guns, but they're just not same-same, especially on shootability.

BTW, I'm not saying USPs are bad or anything - this comment is addressing your response to saying the USP is more reliable and shootable than a 1911/2011 specifically. But I'd have no problems at all carrying a USP into bear country.

 

[PopNFresh]

no lightened springs or set screws on triggers on guns that may preserve life.
had a smith and Wesson revolver once fail to reset the trigger every shot because debris had bound up the rebound slide. had to physically push the trigger forward to reset. had been carried and wiped down often but hadn't cracked it open in a couple seasons to gut and clean. luckily it happened during practice.

 

[AlaskaRed]

Very reliable, yes. Shootable, sure. But definitely not more so, especially on the issue of shootability.

I will very easily concede a 1911/2011 in 9mm is more shootable than an HK USP. My claim never was it is better shooting than a 1911 but that as far as user experience it is better than the vast majority of 1911's that are in peoples hands. Adding back in the context of the OP I'm framing user experience as a backcountry defensive pistol. User experience for a 1911 vs an HK USP as a competition pistol is not difficult to rule out the USP at all.

I will also concede that you can find a 1911 that will be just as reliable as a USP, but this is an exception of the norm. My backcountry pistols live in holster and are covered in dirt and other debris constantly and sometimes end up in glacial water. I think it would be fun to throw a Staccato and a USP in a glacial creek and see how they fair up afterwards. Glacial silt is no joke and adds a super fine layer of grit on any every inch of surface.

Also, not saying you haven't but I'm curious how much +P hardcast you have ran through your Staccato? Has or does it increase your malfunction rate? I ask out of curiosity not to try and prove a point.

If I ever got serious about shooting competitions it will no doubt not be my USP. A pistol that I plan to use and abuse and rely on for a defensive pistol? I will take the USP user experience.

 

[RockAndSage]

My claim never was it is better shooting than a 1911

Ah, gotcha. I misread the first part of that post then.

My backcountry pistols live in holster and are covered in dirt and other debris constantly and sometimes end up in glacial water. I think it would be fun to throw a Staccato and a USP in a glacial creek and see how they fair up afterwards. Glacial silt is no joke and adds a super fine layer of grit on any every inch of surface.

That's interesting about glacial silt, hadn't ever heard of the issue before. What I'm dealing with is magnetic moon dust on dirt roads and other NV landscapes, especially with wind or being on a SxS, or having gear in the back of a truck. It has a polar charge that makes it adhere to the gun, including getting inside them. Not the same as what you describe, but similar effects. It's one of the reasons I use a lightweight grease - it actually seals up the friction surfaces inside the guns, and keeps the dust away from where it can cause trouble. Looks like crap when it gets dusted, but the dust doesn't interfere with the functioning.

Also, not saying you haven't but I'm curious how much +P hardcast you have ran through your Staccato? Has or does it increase your malfunction rate?

Zero hardcast, just a bunch of +P 124gr Federal HSTs in proofing them for carry, zero malfunctions. My take on hardcast problems in semi-autos isn't necessarily from them being +P entirely. Most issues seem to come from being loaded a bit long for the mag, for the ramps, or for the throat, especially if they have a wide meplat or a funkier ogive. Or, especially when they're a heavier weight, the mag springs not being powerful enough to feed the rounds fast enough for some of the increased slide velocities that come with the hotter, heavier loads. I would definitely like some data to offer on how the Staccato would perform with those. What loads are you running in the USP?