6.5's for elk

[Wrench]

That's why I'm reluctant to try other bullets. I know what has worked and under what circumstances. I've told myself that I won't send one from this rig over 850 and only that far if everything is perfect.

 

[mtmuley]

The match bullets are like a bomb going off inside. As you know, the key is giving them that necessary 6ish inches of soft tissue to upset the bullet and make the bomb go off.

And this is precisely why I tend to stay with more heavily constructed bullets. Elk hunts aren't always perfect and 6 inches of soft tissue. mtmuley

 

[Ryan Avery]

And this is precisely why I tend to stay with more heavily constructed bullets. Elk hunts aren't always perfect and 6 inches of soft tissue. mtmuley

What bullet are you using @mtmuley?

Not that I condone bad shot but I've seen about every angle possible with a 230 Berger. Through both shoulder, in the ass, frontal, through the hip into the guts. All of them made it to the freezer. The only one I really don't know what happened was a 230 OTM. My buddy made what looked like a great shot at 400 ish yards, never found it.

I guess I have led this thread way of course, sorry @Newtosavage

 

[mtmuley]

Ryan, I've used the grain Accubond since 2002. Lots of dead bulls, deer, antelope and bears. In the process of transitioning to a mono. Just in case. mtmuiey

 

[mcseal2]

I would not hesitate to use my 264 win mag on elk. I've shot a good bull with a 140gr Accubond from a 270 win with results I was very happy with. The first shot hit right behind the shoulder at 614 yards. I put the second right in front of the shoulder as the bull rocked back, hiding his vitals. He never made it 30 yards. and both exited with good looking wound channels and exit wounds. The 264 has penetrated a lot of deer on tough shots with the 140 but it's a heavier rifle so I've never packed it after elk. That elk with the 270 was the longest shot I've taken at an uninjured game animal since I was a dumb kid so I don't know about longer range. My 264's push a higher SD 140gr bullet as fast or faster so I'd have no problem using them.

That said I had a 300 win mag built that's lighter than either the 270 or 264 for elk and AK hunting. It hasn't got an elk yet but has a couple deer and a moose under it's belt. I'll likely never use anything but that rifle on game bigger than deer.

 

[mcseal2]

mtmuley I don't know if I'd do that or not. The E tips work well, but I kept a 180gr 30 cal started at 2900fps in a whitetail buck quartering to me at 379 yards this year. The two I used on the moose exited. I'm not sure the Accubond isn't a better all around bullet for elk and deer just yet. Shot a lot of them without seeing one fail and they penetrated almost as well. Pretty small sample size so far, but I might go back to the Accubond unless I go after another moose.

 

[Newtosavage]

So even with all this good discussion, almost nobody has answered my original question. Maybe the question was based on a bad premise, but I'm just trying to learn. I don't have nearly as much rifle hunting experience as a lot of folks here. I've spent most of the last 40 years bowhunting.

So, faced with a 6.5mm 140-class bullet, based on your experience, what's your minimum acceptable impact velocity?

 

[elkguide]

Once I leave my loading bench and my shooting bench, I don't think about velocity. Once I'm in the field, I'm all about watching the animal I am pursuing and then getting into a position to make a lethal shot.

IF I were to ever hunt elk with a rifle in the 6.5 caliber, I would be all about limiting the distance that I took a shot at and I would only be taking a broadside shot.

Elk are a very tough animal and even though I've watched them being successfully taken with what I consider marginal calibers/cartridges too many things happen in my world and I like to leave a little margin for error.

 

[Wrestler034]

Attached is my BC card for my 260 sending a 140gr Accubond. The bullet will expand out to 775yds. My limit, on game, is at 400yds.

 

[ckleeves]

My wife shot a bull last year with a 143 eldx. Impact velocity was right at 2075. Her first shot landed a bit far back (bad wind call on my part) not horrible bad, I didn’t open him up but I’m guessing it just clipped the back of the lungs. If it didn’t it was real close.

Then things got tricky. The bull didn’t really react, he just turned quartering toward. Her next shot we corrected the wind and she hit directly in the center of the humerus. That bullet shed the core and didn’t do a whole lot. The bull picked up that leg and turned and gave another lousy angle steep quartered away. 2 more shots and the bull was dead.

Had the first shot been better (it honestly wasn’t bad though) it might have ended sooner. That’s what I don’t like about the 6.5’s. The second humerus shot with a 30 cal magnum with a 215 or 230 Berger would have thundered that bull with a quickness.

The bullets all expanded fine at 2075, I’m just not crazy about not perfect broadside shots with them.




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[Newtosavage]

IF I were to ever hunt elk with a rifle in the 6.5 caliber, I would be all about limiting the distance that I took a shot at

That's pretty much what my question is aimed at. What parameters determine the limits of your distance?

For some (myself included) it's going to be my shooting ability. I grew up bowhunting so a 400 yard shot with a rifle seems like a long shot to me, even though I enjoy handloading these days and probably go through about 1000 rounds a year at the range.

I'm just curious if folks are setting those self-imposed limits based on things like terminal velocity and bullet construction, or if they are using other parameters.

 

[Wrench]

My wife shot a bull last year with a 143 eldx. Impact velocity was right at 2075. Her first shot landed a bit far back (bad wind call on my part) not horrible bad, I didn’t open him up but I’m guessing it just clipped the back of the lungs. If it didn’t it was real close.

Then things got tricky. The bull didn’t really react, he just turned quartering toward. Her next shot we corrected the wind and she hit directly in the center of the humerus. That bullet shed the core and didn’t do a whole lot. The bull picked up that leg and turned and gave another lousy angle steep quartered away. 2 more shots and the bull was dead.

Had the first shot been better (it honestly wasn’t bad though) it might have ended sooner. That’s what I don’t like about the 6.5’s. The second humerus shot with a 30 cal magnum with a 215 or 230 Berger would have thundered that bull with a quickness.

The bullets all expanded fine at 2075, I’m just not crazy about not perfect broadside shots with them.




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My pard hit a bull in the humerous at 340yds with a 215 from a 300 win mag. It busted the leg all but off and the bull ran off apparently unharmed. He chased it all day but had to get out of the area for dark. Two days later his FIL killed it. The bullet blew up and peppered the chest, but nothing made it more than an inch or two deep.

Those big bones are hell on anything not screwed together well.

 

[mcseal2]

For me 600 yards is about my limit no matter what I'm shooting. At 600 I know I have plenty of velocity left to open the Accubond, Berger, or E tip I'd be shooting depending on the rifle. For the E tip I like to keep velocity up around 2000fps. At 600 I'm down to 1930fps by the calculator, but I haven't shot anything live that far with that rifle. For the Accubond 1800 or less is probably fine. I've shot a ton of coyotes with Accubonds, they open instantly but then hold together with the bonding. The Berger will open farther than I will shoot on game as long as the tip is open, I check the tips on Bergers.

 

[204guy]

To counter above on a hard quartering too shot, I've seen a bullet smash the humerus bone and leave a hole in the heart you could drop a dime through. Bullet ended up in the paunch somewhere. The bullet, a 120TTSX started out of a .260 at 2900fps bull was about 60yds. I'd have 99% confidence in that shot again, and again.

You can't make generalized questions about how far is a 6.5 good for elk. It's WAY more nuanced than that. What bullet? There's got to be 150-200 6.5 bullets on the market. What weight? Bullet construction? Impact velocity? What are you asking the bullet to do? Hard angle? Long range? Etc. Every single bullet is at least a small compromise of some sort.

 

[2five7]

140 Berger HVLD, 658 yards, 2300 impact velocity.

 

[Newtosavage]

You can't make generalized questions about how far is a 6.5 good for elk. It's WAY more nuanced than that. What bullet? There's got to be 150-200 6.5 bullets on the market. What weight? Bullet construction? Impact velocity? What are you asking the bullet to do? Hard angle? Long range? Etc. Every single bullet is at least a small compromise of some sort.

That's why I specifically asked about 140 class 6.5's. There aren't 150-200 of those, and there is likely to be some 1st hand experience here using 140 class 6.5's on elk. Although I'm reading more comments on this thread about bullets that aren't 6.5 than are and I'm not really sure what that has to do with the question since most of us agree you can't directly compare a bullet's performance across multiple weights and calibers.

 

[CorbLand]

There are people that understand this stuff way more than I do so I will let them answer your original question. I will add that I shot a cow this year at 408 yards with my 6.5 CM loaded with factory Hornady Hunter 143 ELDX. It through and through her, made a mess of both lungs and she made it about 25-30 yards before calling it quits. It was effective and I would have shot her given the position she was in out to 500. I cant say I would want to push it much more than that with a 6.5 but it can be done.

 

[prm]

140 Berger HVLD, 658 yards, 2300 impact velocity.

What did the vitals look like? Pretty impressive reaction.

 

[30338]

I've shot a lot of stuff with the Berger 140 vld with a muzzle velocity of 2900. Two new rigs are shooting them in the 2700 fps range. Till I have a bad experience I'll keep using them. I don't shoot past the point where expansion is assured. Lot of bullets behave quite well in that velocity range though.

 

[Newtosavage]

I don't shoot past the point where expansion is assured.

which would be what velocity in your experience?