Heavy Timber Rifle

[Wolfshead]

I’m in agreement with Diamondback

From off the Barnes website on what they recommend.

All copper bullets want a BIG JUMP! This is the point where your load development should begin. You can then later test different seating depths and find a “sweet spot” that your particular firearm prefers. We suggest working in at least .025” increments as follows seating the bullet deeper to allow a further jump. Your test plan could look something like this:

• 1st group- .050” jump
• 2nd group- .075” jump
• 3rd group- .100” jump
• 4th group- .125” jump
• 5th group- .150“ jump

I would do it this way as well.
I e emailed Barnes many times and they’ve always got back to me, usually in a couple hours.
You may get some answers from them.

Thanks for the input everyone.

One last question on seating depth. Seating the bullet in further will ultimately increase the pressure, as there is less cartridge capacity.

Since I’m already at near max, any chance I will run into pressure signs with the new seating depth?

As far as seating depth and pressure, that is possible.
Just go carefully and check for pressure signs (flattened primers, hard bolt lift, brass deformation, etc….) as you work up the compression and pressure.
I don’t think you have to worry too much, just go slow.
I think you’re most likely going to find what you’re looking for before you have too much to worry about.

 

[Ringbill27]

I’ve contacted Barnes in the past and these are the min expansions velocities for the bullets.
130 TTSX = 1800 fps
150 TTSX = 2000 fps
168 TTSX = 1800 fps
175 LRX = 1600 fps
These numbers are for a 1.5x expansion and for 2x add 200fps. LRXs are engineered for long range hunt and designed to expand at lower speeds, which could lead to losing petals at close range. Probably not in 308win, but I have no experience with this bullet. I’ve only loaded the 130gr and 150gr TTSX in my wife’s 308. That 130gr is a speed demon. The 168gr is the easy button for reloading in my 30-06. Just filled the case and it groups well with my rifle.
I’d imagine a 308 could keep both the 168 and the 175 above the min expansion out to 300yds but that would definitely be my max range.
Hope this is helpful.

 

[Vern400]

Hi all,

First time posting here. I’ve been a fan of the content for quite some time and hopefully have some decent questions to share. I think I found the right forum group, but feel free to send me off to another chat if I’m in the wrong spot.

I applied for an elk tag this year and am interested at trying my hand at still hunting the heavy timber. I have a lite weight .308 Win that I am hoping is up to the challenge. I anticipate shots to be close (<100 yards) given the terrain, but may find myself on the edge of a meadow along the way. Max distance is 200-300 yards.

My question is specific to bullet type. I reload Barnes and have 150 TTSX, 168 TTSX, and 175 LRX to choose from. I know you should always push the mono’s as fast as possible, but would a bigger bullet be advantageous given the closer shots inside of heavy timber?

I haven’t chrono’d yet, but anticipated velocities using Varget are as follows:

150 TTSX - 2800-2850 fps
168 TTSX - 2650-2700 fps
175 LRX - 2550-2600 fps

The thought process again being a heavy bullet at close range carrying more umph than the lighter bullet, even at expense of velocity. Maybe wishful thinking in the mono-metals though. Alternatively, would a heavy for caliber bonded bullet (Accubond or A-Frame) be better suited?

Thanks for the time and look forward to hearing y’all’s thoughts.

Yeah I wish I was seeing impact velocities if you're talking about shooting Monos. It seems to me using a short barrel rifle in a modest caliber with a heavy mono kind of plugging along it's bad juju. Sure would be a shame for a mono to slip right through. If I was running a marginal situation, and didn't need extreme accuracy (and you don't) and my life depended on it... I'd use a partition. I'd even have more confidence in running a 168 or 180 ELDM at 308 short barrel velocities.

 

[danhuntingmi]

Bonded bullets deflect less from brush, so I'm guessing metal bullets will have a similar advantage.

Personally I've been using 220 grain hornady interlock round nose for deer in heavy brush. Can't believe elk wouldn't be killed by them.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Bonded bullets deflect less from brush, so I'm guessing metal bullets will have a similar advantage.

Personally I've been using 220 grain hornady interlock round nose for deer in heavy brush. Can't believe elk wouldn't be killed by them.

I would like to see a source showing less deflection for bonded bullets. That doesn’t track with anything I have ever seen or read.

And the old myth that round nose bullets “bust brush” is just that, a myth. All bullets deflect when they hit anything substantial. Whether the deflection matters depends largely on the distance from the deflection to the animal.

 

[danhuntingmi]

I would like to see a source showing less deflection for bonded bullets. That doesn’t track with anything I have ever seen or read.

And the old myth that round nose bullets “bust brush” is just that, a myth. All bullets deflect when they hit anything substantial. Whether the deflection matters depends largely on the distance from the deflection to the animal.

My source is where I literally put up a target in thick brush and tested different bullets. Nice source, huh?

I've heard people like you parrot the same old wife's tails that all bullets are the same at brush deflection time and time again. Yet anyone who actually tries it has seen differences.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

My source is where I literally put up a target in thick brush and tested different bullets. Nice source, huh?

I've heard people like you parrot the same old wife's tails that all bullets are the same at brush deflection time and time again. Yet anyone who actually tries it has seen differences.

To be blunt: I don’t believe you. Your source is that you just made that up. The old wives tail is literally what you are saying. Which doesn’t track with years of observing ricochet hazards on live fire ranges and hunting experience.

But, since you assert it:

What obstacle did you use to test it? How far was the target from the obstacle? How did you ensure you hit the same obstacle every time? How many rounds did you fire for your sample?